Stormourne Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Should Aegon be a pretender, how will we get this information? It would make no sense for Varys to tell anyone about his true parentage, aside from the idea that he is Rhaegar's son. There is no reason to tell Illyrio, as well. I think Varys is too smart for that. Even if Aegon dies from dragon-fire, that doesn't mean much. Targaryens have died from dragons before in the novels, in the Dance of Dragons, etc. Aegon growing up to believe he is Rhaegar's son is the logical conclusion. Jon believing Aegon is who Varys said he is, also makes sense in a logical way. :/ Perhaps Bran can figure this shit out, or perhaps Bloodraven already knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yucef Menaerys Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 13 hours ago, SirArthur said: Why would he need the knowledge combined ? It would be enough if he knew the true rumoured dornish master plan TM. The dornish master plan? Could you expatiate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said: Should Aegon be a pretender, how will we get this information? It would make no sense for Varys to tell anyone about his true parentage, aside from the idea that he is Rhaegar's son. There is no reason to tell Illyrio, as well. I think Varys is too smart for that. Even if Aegon dies from dragon-fire, that doesn't mean much. Targaryens have died from dragons before in the novels, in the Dance of Dragons, etc. Aegon growing up to believe he is Rhaegar's son is the logical conclusion. Jon believing Aegon is who Varys said he is, also makes sense in a logical way. :/ Perhaps Bran can figure this shit out, or perhaps Bloodraven already knows. You don't suspect that Illyrio is the father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirArthur Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, Yucef Menaerys said: The dornish master plan? Could you expatiate? The entire story around Dany's marriage pact with Dorne is fishy. And then we have Arianne and Quentyn POV chapters based around the pact and the actions they take. And we have Aegon, the son of a dornish princess and Arianne's mission to Connington. And while on route she thinks about the pact and how she may marry Aegon instead of Viserys. And then on top of that there is the reason that the marriage pact was never the real deal for Dorne because Viserys had no army and Dorne can't beat the 7K alone. Aegon, as a son of Elia, has to know something about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blooddragon Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 15 hours ago, Grazdan zo Azer said: If I remember correctly Bran won't be POV in TWOW. Maybe Bloodraven will be POV character. He will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 12 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said: Should Aegon be a pretender, how will we get this information? First, pretender means someone with a claim for a throne he doesn't sit; it has nothing to do with whether that claim is valid or not. Aegon is a pretender. So are Dany and Stannis. The question is whether Aegon is an impostor. Anyway, it would be very easy for us, the readers, to get the truth. The bigger issue is how Westeros could get the truth. Even if, say, Dany gets the clearest and most unambiguous vision in history and announces it to the world, the only people who would believe her are the ones who are already on her side. The easiest thing I can imagine is someone coming clean after it's all over and Aegon is dead. There are many ways one of the plotters might end up agreeing to spill the beans in public in exchange for clemency. The only problem is that this only leads to an interesting story of human internal conflict if we have the PoV of a loyal and faithful feudal lord who'd convinced himself on flimsy evidence that Aegon was real and now had to come to terms with that. And the only obvious possibility is JonConn, and you wouldn't need a public revelation for him to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindsayLohan Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 53 minutes ago, falcotron said: Anyway, it would be very easy for us, the readers, to get the truth. The bigger issue is how Westeros could get the truth. Even if, say, Dany gets the clearest and most unambiguous vision in history and announces it to the world, the only people who would believe her are the ones who are already on her side. If there's one thing GRRM has taught us, it's that nothing matters less than the truth. Joffrey's parentage, Jon Snow's identity, f(Arya)'s marriage, oaths sworn and broken... If Aegon seizes the Iron Throne then he's Aegon Targaryan. If he is betrayed or dies in battle he's (to steal something from Jon) "another doomed pretender". The truth is always out there, whatever version of events suits an individual's needs is what he or she embraces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 55 minutes ago, LindsayLohan said: If there's one thing GRRM has taught us, it's that nothing matters less than the truth. Joffrey's parentage, Jon Snow's identity, f(Arya)'s marriage, oaths sworn and broken... Truth isn't completely meaningless. Some lords do care about the truth, and even more of at least care about the semblance of truth, despite the fact that many others don't. The most relevant example is in a preview chapter: Doran explicitly tasks Arianne with discovering the truth about the alleged Aegon and JonConn . But truth without evidence, that is completely meaningless. If nobody knows something is a lie, or the only proof of the lie is that his sworn enemy claims she saw a vision, then of course it doesn't matter that it's a lie. Anyway, as I said, the way to make a story of it is not to have the truth make an impact on the game itself, but to show the internal conflicts in someone who considered themselves a loyal vassal and an honorable man who now learns he's chosen the wrong side. That's why a revelation after Aegon is dead would probably serve the story better than one while he's alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 15 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said: Should Aegon be a pretender, how will we get this information? The Tattered Prince story thread seems to be the most likely place it will all unravel. A Barristan/Lemore (Ashara) plot maybe if not the Tattered Prince. Though I'm not sure you're asking the right question, rather it should be how Dany/Tyrion or maybe Sansa get that information. Dany because she's the one it really matters to in order to kick off the dance, Tyrion or Sansa because if they get it they'll see it passed onto Dany so that they may profit from the dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 8 hours ago, LindsayLohan said: If there's one thing GRRM has taught us, it's that nothing matters less than the truth. Joffrey's parentage, Jon Snow's identity, f(Arya)'s marriage, oaths sworn and broken... If Aegon seizes the Iron Throne then he's Aegon Targaryan. If he is betrayed or dies in battle he's (to steal something from Jon) "another doomed pretender". The truth is always out there, whatever version of events suits an individual's needs is what he or she embraces. Maegor and Aegon II also seized the throne. But they died without legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I don't think Aegon knows more than JonCon. But as he is not a POV, we don't know for sure. I don't think GRRM has other rule for POV that providing the right level of knowledge. Maybe we will have no Jon POV in TWoW, just someone "around" him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said: Maybe we will have no Jon POV in TWoW, just someone "around" him. More than a brief Jon PoV might not work very well. If he's second-lifed, for the nerds it'll be one sentence of "Cool, George went with the second life story" followed by four chapters of tedious non-mystery, while for the casual readers it'll be five chapters of baffling confusion as Jon becomes more Ghost and less coherent. If he's kept in suspended animation by magical Wall ice, it'll just be "c-c-c-c-cold", a single thought stretching out over the weeks (and chapters). If he's actually dead, it'll kind of give away all the mysteries of how the afterlife works in Planetos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makk Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 He isn't a point of view because GRRM decided Jon Connington's thoughts would be more interesting and he was the overall best choice out of all relevant characters in his location. I highly doubt it is because young Griff knows too much. Rather Connington is guy the making the decisions and he is the guy with the haunted past that will have a bearing on what happens. He wanted Connington to contract Greyscale to test him and lend an urgency to what he decides. I doubt it is coincidence that he was in love with Rhaegar and thinks he is helping Rhaegars hidden son, when he could eventually be forced to choose between Rhaegar's real son or the boy he has falsely raised. It's full with the potential for emotional torture, which is what GRRM loves doing to his characters. Young Griff just doesn't have that depth so I personally wouldn't have even considered this a controversial choice. Edit : Oh, and of course Rhaegar's real surviving son is a POV as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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