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MinscS2

How good a swordsman is Jon actually?

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1 hour ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

I think the Starks are happy to see each other but they all have PTSD of some kind. Every single one of them but in the end they will stick together. 

PTSD does not mean 'complete erasure of their humanity'. Humans would ask about their possibly dead brother. The only one that this is excused for is Bran, who has been effectively mind-raped by the sheer amount of info he has, not to mention he's probably seen Rickon die. But Arya not asking about Rickon, when she asked about fucking Lewyn? I don't buy it.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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1 hour ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

PTSD does not mean 'complete erasure of their humanity'. Humans would ask about their possibly dead brother. The only one that this is excused for is Bran, who has been effectively mind-raped by the sheer amount of info he has, not to mention he's probably seen Rickon die. But Arya not asking about Rickon, when she asked about fucking Lewyn? I don't buy it.

would have been nice to see that. 

maybe they are waiting until her reunion with Jon to talk about it. or maybe they just won't give us her processing that. would suck if they don't. 

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6 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

would have been nice to see that. 

maybe they are waiting until her reunion with Jon to talk about it. or maybe they just won't give us her processing that. would suck if they don't. 

Hopefully they are just saving it for Arya-Jon, so Jon can say something like 'He died right in front of me'. Let's hope that's it. Then again... they used Rickon as a mere set-up to the hilarious joke that Dickon Tarly's name... (drum roll) ...sounds like Dick.

So while I share your hopes, I'm not sure it's likely they'll be fulfilled.

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3 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

A Stark reunion that lasted all of five seconds, stretched plausibility, and was only SATISFYING™ in the bare basic 'a Stark met another Stark' way.

Speaking of which, have you guys noticed how freaking hollow the Stark reunions have been? It's not helped by the fact nobody brings up Rickon's death. Like, at all. It makes the family dynamics feel as hollow as D & D's skulls.

Real talk. Those kids should be ugly crying with snot and sobs while they just dump all the crap they have been through.

Sansa: "Oh my god it was horrible! Joff beat me Arya is probably dead they killed daddy and showed me his head I was almost raped then I was raped so much by Ramsay and aunt Lysa tried to kill me and LF was my only friend and I think he wants to rape me or kill me and I'm so scared and I thought I was alone and mom and Robb is dead and I think I'm the reason dad died and OMG it was so horrible and I'm never leaving home ever again!"

Jon: I Died. My god I died! Holy Hells man! I don't even know what I'm doing. I dad said he was gonna tell me about my mom then next thing he's dead, and Robb is a king now and...OMG dead people! I died! What is even happening? Where is Arya and Rickon? 

And in all honesty. None of them should really want to leave the North ever again. They should be trying every single option they have available (including inviting people to WF) before they set foot below the neck. Considering the last time their family did that everyone almost got waxed.

Edited by MrJay

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2 minutes ago, MrJay said:

Real talk. Those kids should be ugly crying with snot and sobs while they just dump all the crap they have been through.

Sansa: "Oh my god it was horrible! Joff beat me Arya is probably dead they killed daddy and showed me his head I was almost raped then I was raped so much by Ramsay and aunt Lysa tried to kill me and LF was my only friend and I think he wants to rape me or kill me and I'm so scared and I thought I was alone and mom and Robb is dead and I think I'm the reason dad died and OMG it was so horrible and I'm never leaving home ever again!"

Jon: I Died. My god I died! Holy Hells man! I don't even know what I'm doing. I dad said he was gonna tell me about my mom then next thing he's dead, and Robb is a king now and...OMG dead people! I died! What is even happening? Where is Arya and Rickon? 

Yeah, that's been so glossed over I've forgot to even bloody bring it up. WHY THE FUCK IS JON JUST COOL WITH BEING RESURRECTED? The only time I can even remember him acknowledging he kicked the bucket was when he told Mel not to bring him back with all the emotional tone of 'I'm going through a 1CC run, don't give me any continues'.

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9 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Lol at the level 99 swordsman thing. In RPG terms, he has:

Weapon: Valyrian Steel Sword
Shield: That guards the realms of men
Headgear: Nothing, Jon Snow
Bodygear: Plot Armour
Accessory: Anti-hypothermia Amulet

Also, Healing factor: Epic Boat sex

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3 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Yeah, that's been so glossed over I've forgot to even bloody bring it up. WHY THE FUCK IS JON JUST COOL WITH BEING RESURRECTED? The only time I can even remember him acknowledging he kicked the bucket was when he told Mel not to bring him back with all the emotional tone of 'I'm going through a 1CC run, don't give me any continues'.

Was Jon cool with that?

he looked like he had a stick up his *** about it until Beric whispered the sweet somethings with that voice of his

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3 hours ago, MrJay said:

Real talk. Those kids should be ugly crying with snot and sobs while they just dump all the crap they have been through.

Sansa: "Oh my god it was horrible! Joff beat me Arya is probably dead they killed daddy and showed me his head I was almost raped then I was raped so much by Ramsay and aunt Lysa tried to kill me and LF was my only friend and I think he wants to rape me or kill me and I'm so scared and I thought I was alone and mom and Robb is dead and I think I'm the reason dad died and OMG it was so horrible and I'm never leaving home ever again!"

Jon: I Died. My god I died! Holy Hells man! I don't even know what I'm doing. I dad said he was gonna tell me about my mom then next thing he's dead, and Robb is a king now and...OMG dead people! I died! What is even happening? Where is Arya and Rickon? 

And in all honesty. None of them should really want to leave the North ever again. They should be trying every single option they have available (including inviting people to WF) before they set foot below the neck. Considering the last time their family did that everyone almost got waxed.

They have pretty clearly made the decision not to have characters repeat the same information multiple times and show it on screen. 

This was a conscious decision as B Cogman talked about it.

whether it was a good one, not sure. Certainly from a screen economy perspective and conveying what needs to be conveyed with the minimal amount of screen time possible it works.

from satisfying the emotional desires of the audience probably not as good. 

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10 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

They have pretty clearly made the decision not to have characters repeat the same information multiple times and show it on screen. 

This was a conscious decision as B Cogman talked about it.

whether it was a good one, not sure. Certainly from a screen economy perspective and conveying what needs to be conveyed with the minimal amount of screen time possible it works.

from satisfying the emotional desires of the audience probably not as good. 

Oh yeah, I recall B Cogman saying that. I can kinda see where he's getting at, and to an extent, yes, you can't beat a dead horse, but I dunno. It strains the realism how little they give a shit about major shit going down.

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15 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Oh yeah, I recall B Cogman saying that. I can kinda see where he's getting at, and to an extent, yes, you can't beat a dead horse, but I dunno. It strains the realism how little they give a shit about major shit going down.

i hear you. we just have to assume it happens off screen. 

but i hear you. i was very disappointed we didn't hear Jon talk to Sansa about dying last year or Sansa talk about all the stuff she went through. 

But we know for a fact there were off screen conversations because Jon tells Theon this year that he would kill him if not for what he did for Sansa but we never saw Sansa tell Jon that Theon helped her escape. 

Edited by jcmontea

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7 hours ago, IceIceBaby said:

Also, Healing factor: Epic Boat sex

Got me thinking off...

 

Edited by MinscS2

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20 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Yeah, that's been so glossed over I've forgot to even bloody bring it up. WHY THE FUCK IS JON JUST COOL WITH BEING RESURRECTED? The only time I can even remember him acknowledging he kicked the bucket was when he told Mel not to bring him back with all the emotional tone of 'I'm going through a 1CC run, don't give me any continues'.

That's one of those things where the show felt like they had to do it since it was such a major part of the books, but really wanted no part of it.  So you just have it as more of a plot point and a stupid cliffhanger that Jon was resurrected but that's really all it is.  I'd imagine GRRM has a much bigger plan for that and it will majorly impact Jon's character.  I think the show for understandable reasons did not want to get too much into that.  

I'm hopeful that Season 8 will have a "Jon just wants to die in peace" storyline.  It was sort of hinted at in his conversation with Beric and would at least mean there was some impact of him dying.  

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26 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

That's one of those things where the show felt like they had to do it since it was such a major part of the books, but really wanted no part of it.  So you just have it as more of a plot point and a stupid cliffhanger that Jon was resurrected but that's really all it is.  I'd imagine GRRM has a much bigger plan for that and it will majorly impact Jon's character.  I think the show for understandable reasons did not want to get too much into that.  

I'm hopeful that Season 8 will have a "Jon just wants to die in peace" storyline.  It was sort of hinted at in his conversation with Beric and would at least mean there was some impact of him dying.  

While Jon wanting to die in peace would be a great storyline, I don't think the show's going that direction. There's too much emphasis on Jon being the best anything that anythinged ever for him to be anything other than a Michael Bay Action Hero. Maybe he'll die at the end, but I don't think they'll emphasise that he's glad to go if they do. I don't think it's even occurred to them.

But yeah, the thing of 'they didn't want to do it but it's in the books' theory makes sense. Or, as I've said before, they saw a potential SHOCK AND AWE™ moment from the books and wanted to cash in on the hype with Jon's death, then cash in on the other SHOCKER™ that he'd come back to life... which they squandered by making everyone 'good' suddenly super-protective of Jon's body and hiding him in the room instead of burning him as is customary.

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1 minute ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

which they squandered by making everyone 'good' suddenly super-protective of Jon's body and hiding him in the room instead of burning him as is customary.

To be fair to the show, Tormund did go to get wood for a funeral pyre after Mel's resurrection "failed".

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4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

To be fair to the show, Tormund did go to get wood for a funeral pyre after Mel's resurrection "failed".

True, but given that the wildlings would be fucking terrified of dead men walking, it makes me wonder why Tormund let Mel's weird barber ritual occur in the first place. And why they were so protective of a (very pretty) corpse.

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2 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

True, but given that the wildlings would be fucking terrified of dead men walking, it makes me wonder why Tormund let Mel's weird barber ritual occur in the first place. And why they were so protective of a (very pretty) corpse.

Why they where so protective of Jons corpse is anyone's guess. Probably loyalty, it was his closest friends who guarded his remains (and Davos :P ) after all. Perhaps they didn't want Throne & Co to mutilate it or something, or make sure he was buried/burned with dignity.

Tormund probably let the ritual pass because he realized that Melissandre's attempt to resurrect Jon would (if it worked) end in an actual resurrection, and not just the walking-dead reanimation that White Walkers do, and because he considered Jon a friend at this stage and probably wanted to, at the very least, give it a try. He looks very skeptical during the ritual though, and he's (if I recall) the one who breaks the silence with his comment about fetching wood for the pyre. 

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9 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Why they where so protective of Jons corpse is anyone's guess. Probably loyalty, it was his closest friends who guarded his remains (and Davos :P ) after all. Perhaps they didn't want Throne & Co to mutilate it or something, or make sure he was buried/burned with dignity.

Tormund probably let the ritual pass because he realized that Melissandre's attempt to resurrect Jon would (if it worked) end in an actual resurrection, and not just the walking-dead reanimation that White Walkers do, and because he considered Jon a friend at this stage and probably wanted to, at the very least, give it a try. He looks very skeptical during the ritual though, and he's (if I recall) the one who breaks the silence with his comment about fetching wood for the pyre. 

Yeah, in fairness it isn't 'bad pussy' bad, though the weird protectiveness is hard to shrug off. As well as Davos being weirdly encouraging of Mel's dark magic and randomly <3ing Jon. Damn, I just keep coming up with shit naturally.

I'm not always an asshole, I swear :P.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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