LynnS Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 On 9/17/2017 at 2:25 PM, Sly Wren said: Especially that tree at Whitetree--looks like an abomination. @LynnS argues that the Whitetree tree is the Night's King's sacrifice tree. Which would make sense--given how monstrous it's face is. The faces of the first sacrifices. I've had some additional thoughts about this tree and Dany's vision: Quote A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. Compare Bran's appearance as Tree-Bran and the strange weirwood at the Night Fort: A Clash of Kings - Jon VII Quote A weirwood. It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes? Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran IV The Reeds decided that they would sleep in the kitchens, a stone octagon with a broken dome. It looked to offer better shelter than most of the other buildings, even though a crooked weirwood had burst up through the slate floor beside the huge central well, stretching slantwise toward the hole in the roof, its bone-white branches reaching for the sun. It was a queer kind of tree, skinnier than any other weirwood that Bran had ever seen and faceless as well, but it made him feel as if the old gods were with him here, at least. I think that Bran is actually using the weirwood at the Night Fort or more specifically the Black Gate to reach Jon on a metaphysical plane. So he appears to Jon sprouting from the rock; slender and skinnier like a sapling, reaching for the sunlight. Growing as Jon watches. I think this is the meaning of Dany's vision. The chink in the ice is the Black Gate and Bran is accessing it's power and the power of the Wall. This could be the Night's King's tree and it could also be the drowned god's tree. Compare these two passages: Spoiler The Foresaken - TWOW "The Crow’s Eye has fed your Drowned God well, and he has grown fat with sacrifice. Words are wind, but blood is power. We have given thousands to the sea, and he has given us victories!” “…Your Grace,” said Torwold Browntooth. “I have the priests. What do you want done with them?” “Bind them to the prows,” Euron commanded. “My brother on the Silence. Take one for yourself. Let them dice for the others, one to a ship. Let them feel the spray, the kiss of the Drowned God, wet and salty.” Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran IV "I am the sword in the darkness," Samwell Tarly said. "I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men." "Then pass," the door said. Its lips opened, wide and wider and wider still, until nothing at all remained but a great gaping mouth in a ring of wrinkles. Sam stepped aside and waved Jojen through ahead of him. Summer followed, sniffing as he went, and then it was Bran's turn. Hodor ducked, but not low enough. The door's upper lip brushed softly against the top of Bran's head, and a drop of water fell on him and ran slowly down his nose. It was strangely warm, and salty as a tear. It seems to me that Bran received the salty kiss of the drowned god when passes through the Gate. Quote A Dance with Dragons - Victarion I "Your Drowned God is a demon," the black priest Moqorro said afterward. "He is no more than a thrall of the Other, the dark god whose name must not be spoken." The Black Gate does seem to be enslaved and I wonder if the tree is a tree; or a root from the demon tree at Whitetree. An appendage that sucks power from the wall and receives bloody or burnt sacrifice in it's mouth. Quote A Dance with Dragons - The Sacrifice The crofter's village stood between two lakes, the larger dotted with small wooded islands that punched up through the ice like the frozen fists of some drowned giant. From one such island rose a weirwood gnarled and ancient, its bole and branches white as the surrounding snows. Eight days ago Asha had walked out with Aly Mormont to have a closer look at its slitted red eyes and bloody mouth. It is only sap, she'd told herself, the red sap that flows inside these weirwoods. But her eyes were unconvinced; seeing was believing, and what they saw was frozen blood. "You northmen brought these snows upon us," insisted Corliss Penny. "You and your demon trees. R'hllor will save us." So if the Black Gate is a thrall; then Bran is the one using it. We know from Tree-Bran that he likes it in the dark and his name cannot be spoken (by Sam at least). We also know he climbed too high and was struck down. Although Jon is also struck down for climbing too high; an oathbreaker etc. So could it be that Azor Ahai is a combination of two characters? Salt tears for Bran and smoking blood for Jon. As for the Dawn Sword; why do we exclude Dany, if bloodline is a requirement? It sounds like the Dawn Sword belongs to the Starks in the first place if it's made from their heart tree. The sword might come to Jon but I don't think he needs to be a Dayne to receive it. I actually think the sword will pass through one or two sets of hands before it gets to Jon. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 34 minutes ago, LynnS said: I've had some additional thoughts about this tree and Dany's vision: Okay--that set of connections on growing in a chink/crack is awesome. Even better that the image of Bran's tree in Jon's vision and the blue flower in Dany's vision all show up in that same book. 36 minutes ago, LynnS said: I think that Bran is actually using the weirwood at the Night Fort or more specifically the Black Gate to reach Jon on a metaphysical plane. So he appears to Jon sprouting from the rock; slender and skinnier like a sapling, reaching for the sunlight. Growing as Jon watches. I think this is the meaning of Dany's vision. The chink in the ice is the Black Gate and Bran is accessing it's power and the power of the Wall. One hard part for me to get on this is how Bran is accessing the Black Gate specifically since he hasn't been there yet. He's still in Winterfell when Jon has that vision. Or are you thinking that the Gate is a sort of nexus. . . all weirwoods are connected, but the Gate is even more of a passage way? The other hard part is the blue flower--we do have Lyanna's rose petals being compared to the blue eyes of death in Ned's vision. Clearly tying that moment of the fight to the return of the Others (in my opinion). Are you thinking that the blue flower is the . . . . power of the Others? Tied to the Gate? Forgive my bird-brained-ness, but I'm having a bit of trouble with this. Any chance you'd elaborate a bit? 42 minutes ago, LynnS said: It seems to me that Bran received the salty kiss of the drowned god when passes through the Gate. Oh--this I buy. Muchly. And the idea that the Drowned God is a greenseer. The idea that he was drowned for power--even someone else's--fits with the story of the NIght's King, too. Could see it all being essentially the same story--after all, the Black Gate is powerful. The Night's King's fall led to power for the Night Fort until Alysanne. 44 minutes ago, LynnS said: The Black Gate does seem to be enslaved and I wonder if the tree is a tree; or a root from the demon tree at Whitetree. An appendage that sucks power from the wall and receives bloody or burnt sacrifice in it's mouth. Horrifying and fascinating all in one go. Still, I think that a person passing through the gate is also a kind of sacrifice. And I think that Snowgate was likely doing similar sacrifices--after all, the commanders of Snowgate and the Nightfort warred with each other--centuries before Alysanne shut the Nightfort down and claimed Snowgate as her own. And Ygritte calls "Snow" an evil name--really think that might be tied to a history of sacrificing "Snows" to the Others (as Craster does) resulting in more Others. So, perhaps the Nightfort and Snowgate were competing for power in more ways than one. 49 minutes ago, LynnS said: So if the Black Gate is a thrall; then Bran is the one using it. Makes sense that a Brandon Stark would have power over a Brandon Stark. 49 minutes ago, LynnS said: We know from Tree-Bran that he likes it in the dark and his name cannot be spoken (by Sam at least). We also know he climbed too high and was struck down. Although Jon is also struck down for climbing too high; an oathbreaker etc. So could it be that Azor Ahai is a combination of two characters? Salt tears for Bran and smoking blood for Jon. Works for me--the Night's King imagery around Bran's fall is there for a reason--and there from the start. 50 minutes ago, LynnS said: As for the Dawn Sword; why do we exclude Dany, if bloodline is a requirement? I had not thought to include or exclude Dany until you said this--but that's a good point. That said, Jaime in particular shows us what Arthur Dayne was like--service. Sacrifice. One's own blood is the seal of one's devotion--not the blood of others. So far, that really ain't Dany. Much more like Jon. 50 minutes ago, LynnS said: It sounds like the Dawn Sword belongs to the Starks in the first place if it's made from their heart tree. Unless the Daynes and Starks really were brothers. Nan doesn't specify if the man who brought down the Night's King was a literal brother or a Night's Watch brother. If the former, then the Day's King and the Night's King would both have a right to the sword. Plus we have Martin's SSM: “George said the Sword of the Morning is always a member of House Dayne, someone who is deemed worthy of wielding Dawn as decided within the House, that whoever it is would have to earn the right to wield it.” SSM Really sounds like it has to be a Dayne. We need a LOT more info--but it sounds like a Dayne has to be in the mix. At least so far. 50 minutes ago, LynnS said: The sword might come to Jon but I don't think he needs to be a Dayne to receive it. I actually think the sword will pass through one or two sets of hands before it gets to Jon. This I can absolutely buy. And it could be "bestowed" on him--if Martin told us all that stuff about Dawn AND left out the possibility of bestowal. One way or another--we need more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 31 minutes ago, Sly Wren said: One hard part for me to get on this is how Bran is accessing the Black Gate specifically since he hasn't been there yet. He's still in Winterfell when Jon has that vision. He's there in Jon's vision of Tree-Bran which means that some time in the future Bran will access that gate/tree and Jon in his past. Compare these two passages and the sequence of events as experienced by each character: Quote A Clash of Kings - Bran VII "The wolf ate," Jojen said. "Not you. Take care, Bran. Remember who you are." He remembered who he was all too well; Bran the boy, Bran the broken. Better Bran the beastling. Was it any wonder he would sooner dream his Summer dreams, his wolf dreams? Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted, and once he had even touched Ghost and talked to Jon. Though maybe he had only dreamed that. He could not understand why Jojen was always trying to pull him back now. Bran used the strength of his arms to squirm to a sitting position. "I have to tell Osha what I saw. Is she here? Where did she go?" Quote A Clash of Kings - Jon VII A weirwood. It seemed to sprout from solid rock, its pale roots twisting up from a myriad of fissures and hairline cracks. The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother's face. Had his brother always had three eyes? Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow. He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs. Don't be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him. Bran experience of touching Ghost and speaking to Jon is revers order to Jon's experience of speaking to Bran then being touched. This isn't time travel so much as the trees experiencing time differently than men; that is from present to future. Bran can see into his own future and his own past and I think he can use the Black Gate to talk to Jon. 31 minutes ago, Sly Wren said: Still, I think that a person passing through the gate is also a kind of sacrifice. Yes and christian imagery abounds: baptism, communion, anointing and ultimately Bran will be hung on a weirwood throne or cross. 31 minutes ago, Sly Wren said: Unless the Daynes and Starks really were brothers. Nan doesn't specify if the man who brought down the Night's King was a literal brother or a Night's Watch brother. Well, I always thought the Bael story was a kind of Cain and Abel story. 31 minutes ago, Sly Wren said: And it could be "bestowed" on him--if Martin told us all that stuff about Dawn AND left out the possibility of bestowal. Exactly. Who is left in House Dayne to make a decision? Dany could end up claimiing the sword and bestowing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, Sly Wren said: The other hard part is the blue flower--we do have Lyanna's rose petals being compared to the blue eyes of death in Ned's vision. Clearly tying that moment of the fight to the return of the Others (in my opinion). Are you thinking that the blue flower is the . . . . power of the Others? Tied to the Gate? I think the storm of petals, blue as the eyes of death is referencing Bran. Howland's purpose at the Tower Oh Joy is to ensure that Ned's lives, Bran must be born. The death of Arthur is a red dawn; a blood streaked sky and a reference to the red comet, Dany and the birth of dragons. The red sky in the morning also predicts a rise in the winds and a coming storm. I think the power of the Wall is accessible and I think the Gate it tied that power : Quote A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI Jon frowned in disbelief. "That's … queer." "You think so?" She knelt and scratched Ghost behind his ear. "Your Wall is a queer place, but there is power here, if you will use it. Power in you, and in this beast. You resist it, and that is your mistake. Embrace it. Use it." It's also possible that weirwoods and the Black Gate are represented by Trios. The first head consumes the dying (Whitetree) and the third head expels the reborn (wights, white walkers, Beric Dondarion). But nobody knows what the middle head does (the Black Gate). Dany identifies the flower as blue. It's Jorah who calls it a rose, making the connection with ice or winter roses. So it's a blue rose of Winterfell. Bran has been stolen away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 11:53 AM, Sly Wren said: 4. Which thread is it? I skimmed but couldn't find it--any chance you'd be willing to give me the link? http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148774-dawn-valyrian-steel-the-black-white-trees/ Its pretty straight to the point. A couple of the relevant quotes with a quick note from me on the bottom and all good, it takes me a while too sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 11:53 AM, Sly Wren said: Its interesting how Bloodraven served in the Night's Watch for 13 years. There have also been 13 generations or 13 Targaryen kings since Aegon the Conqueror. Bran is told of the Night's King being the 13th L.C. who served for 13 years. Right before passing through your Black Gate, to go meet Bloodraven, the Last Hero and Night's King. The Last Greenseerer, and only human jacked into the trees in the cave he's in. (Lots of children jacked in as Bran finds in a secret cave, but no humans, just BR.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 On February 4, 2018 at 5:28 PM, LynnS said: Bran experience of touching Ghost and speaking to Jon is revers order to Jon's experience of speaking to Bran then being touched. This isn't time travel so much as the trees experiencing time differently than men; that is from present to future. Bran can see into his own future and his own past and I think he can use the Black Gate to talk to Jon. 1. Yes--this I can buy--though any reason Bran would need the Black Gate to do this vs. just being a really strong greenseer? 2. But I'm also wondering if the Black Gate isn't more the . . . "intense embodiment" (sorry--I'm struggling to come up with a better, more precise phrase) of the weirnet. The passage of people, info, and time from one place to another. Thus, not everything needs to go through it to communicate, but the most intense communication is embodied by it? On February 4, 2018 at 5:28 PM, LynnS said: Yes and christian imagery abounds: baptism, communion, anointing and ultimately Bran will be hung on a weirwood throne or cross. Yes--this idea completely freaks me out. And I think it highly likely. I keep hoping that Jon just needs to kill the Black Gate's Brandon, not Bran the Broken. But. . . I cannot shake the reality that Jon really, really might need to kill Bran. On February 4, 2018 at 5:28 PM, LynnS said: Well, I always thought the Bael story was a kind of Cain and Abel story. Amen--and the point of Ygritte's telling. The whole story-telling festival starts when Jon asks if the men Ygritte lost were her kin. She says she's kin to Jon. And thus--a whole story about how North and South are related. And kinslaying can happen far too easily. On February 4, 2018 at 5:28 PM, LynnS said: Exactly. Who is left in House Dayne to make a decision? Dany could end up claimiing the sword and bestowing it. Well, we've got both Edric (Lord of Starfall) and Allyria. No idea where Edric is--no mention of him in the Lady Stoneheart version of the Brotherhood. I'm assuming he might have cut his losses and gone home after Beric's death. And presumably, Allyria is still at Starfall. But Dany--if she is Ashara's daughter--I go back to Cat's statement that Ned returned Dawn to Ashara--not the family. Not the Lord of Starfall. The daughter of Starfall--Ashara. Granted, Cat's focused on Ashara for entirely different reasons. But the idea of women in the house being the bestower has to be on the table. Especially with the Arthurian traditions, Ladies of the Lake, etc. So, if Dany is Ashara's--she could bestow the sword. But everything Martin's told us--so far, the sword goes from the Daynes to a Dayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 On February 4, 2018 at 5:41 PM, LynnS said: I think the storm of petals, blue as the eyes of death is referencing Bran. Howland's purpose at the Tower Oh Joy is to ensure that Ned's lives, Bran must be born. The death of Arthur is a red dawn; a blood streaked sky and a reference to the red comet, Dany and the birth of dragons. The red sky in the morning also predicts a rise in the winds and a coming storm. I'm struggling to follow you here--the rose petals, blue as the eyes of death are all in the same moment as coming together in a "rush of steel and shadow" and Lyanna's scream and the storm of petals and the sky. Lyanna's death and those petals are already strongly linked earlier in the novel. I agree that the death of Arthur is a red dawn--but tied to the birth/return of the blue-eyed lot. Which as you say is the coming storm and wind--cold winds rising. Basically--I'm struggling to see how Arthur's death is tied to the brith of Dany and her Dragons--are you saying that his protection of her (assuming you buy that Dany is Ashara's) led to both the rise of the Others and the return of the dragons?????? Or am I completely missing the mark? On February 4, 2018 at 5:41 PM, LynnS said: It's also possible that weirwoods and the Black Gate are represented by Trios. The first head consumes the dying (Whitetree) and the third head expels the reborn (wights, white walkers, Beric Dondarion). But nobody knows what the middle head does (the Black Gate). I'm liking this. Works with the Black Gate's being a portal and pass through. Though (incidentally) I also think Dany is a Trios--the changing woman--old, middle, and young all in one go. On February 4, 2018 at 5:41 PM, LynnS said: Dany identifies the flower as blue. It's Jorah who calls it a rose, making the connection with ice or winter roses. So it's a blue rose of Winterfell. Bran has been stolen away. Agreed--though Dany does not correct Jorah--makes me think she may be going along with his interp. And Bran does arguable get stolen by Bloodraven. But not like the Bael story--a grudge match between powerful men with a woman as a pawn, ending up in her being pregnant and throwing the family into chaos and kinslaying. That really seems more like Lyanna's story than Bran's . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly Wren Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 On February 8, 2018 at 4:16 PM, AlaskanSandman said: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/148774-dawn-valyrian-steel-the-black-white-trees/ Its pretty straight to the point. A couple of the relevant quotes with a quick note from me on the bottom and all good, it takes me a while too sometimes Excellent! On February 8, 2018 at 4:22 PM, AlaskanSandman said: Its interesting how Bloodraven served in the Night's Watch for 13 years. There have also been 13 generations or 13 Targaryen kings since Aegon the Conqueror. Yes--and the Last Hero with his companions--Martin's hitting us with that 13 for some reason. Bloodraven does seem like he might have been trying to re-create the Last Hero's mission and ending up in the tree. Learning the language of the children and the song of the earth. I hadn't thought of the 13 generations since Aegon--very interesting. I do absolutely buy that the Targaryen invasion and their generally interloping nature has helped lead to the return of the Others. Like Alysanne messed with the Nightfort and thus the Black Gate. So yes--I buy that the 13 generations could very easily be a marker. Good catch! On February 8, 2018 at 4:22 PM, AlaskanSandman said: Bran is told of the Night's King being the 13th L.C. who served for 13 years. Right before passing through your Black Gate, to go meet Bloodraven, the Last Hero and Night's King. The Last Greenseerer, and only human jacked into the trees in the cave he's in. (Lots of children jacked in as Bran finds in a secret cave, but no humans, just BR.). Yup!!! Though Bloodraven and Bran both choose to be tied to the trees--not sure the Black Gate had the same choice. Seems like he really might have been "cast down" that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Sly Wren said: Excellent! Yes--and the Last Hero with his companions--Martin's hitting us with that 13 for some reason. Bloodraven does seem like he might have been trying to re-create the Last Hero's mission and ending up in the tree. Learning the language of the children and the song of the earth. I hadn't thought of the 13 generations since Aegon--very interesting. I do absolutely buy that the Targaryen invasion and their generally interloping nature has helped lead to the return of the Others. Like Alysanne messed with the Nightfort and thus the Black Gate. So yes--I buy that the 13 generations could very easily be a marker. Good catch! Yup!!! Though Bloodraven and Bran both choose to be tied to the trees--not sure the Black Gate had the same choice. Seems like he really might have been "cast down" that well. If you can find a weirwood grove of 13 id be super happy. Ive thought about doing a thread showing all the 13s cause there is alot and all connected it seems. The tree bit come from Hugor though and the Iron Islands. Hugor had 44 sons. There are 44 Iron Islands. 31 in main grouping and 13 in smaller grouping with 7 being the Largest. Well their are 44 weirwoods on Nagga's Hill, and 31 Weirwoods at High Heart. So where are the groves of 13 and 7? I havn't found them yet but i've also been on a deep Alysanne and Bael search also brought on by Bloodraven and his 13s and also a quote by Viserys. 13 kings back leads to Jaehaerys, 13 generations back leads to Aegon. (Or vice versa, i dont have my notes in front of me.) Which draws attention to the time of Aegon to Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys also supposedly having 13 kids. The 13th one being Gael the Winter Child. Idk what Aegon did yet involving the Wall but i know Harren the Black was ruling the Gods Eye while his brother was the Lord Commander at the Night Fort and Black Gate at the time. Jaehaerys and Alysanne we know closed it. And according to Viserys I, they fought a war there with their dragons against mammoths, giants, and wildlings. Bael the Bard is sometime after Jaehaerys built his kingsroad. I think during the time of Jaehaerys. Alysanne i believe had a bastard child at Queens Crown (birthing imagery). And that child is Gael the Winter Child, the only child not born before 62ac. This is important cause Bael visited Winterfell, then 30 years later fought his son at the Wall. This would then be 92ac. The same time Rhaenys was passed over in the succession crisis of 92ac. It goes deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Jon dies on Jon Chapter 13 of ADWD. Bloodraven served as L.C. for 13 years. Another interesting thing. 1. Aegon I 2 Aenys I 3 Maegor I 4 Jaehaerys I & Alysanne 1 who closed Night fort and changed watch 1. Aegon 5 Viserys I 2 2. Maegor I, Aenys I 6 Aegon II 3 3 Jaehaerys I 7 Aegon III 4 4. Generation skipped over 8 Daeron I 5 4 Viserys I 9 Baelor I 6 6 Aegon II 10 Viserys II 7 7 Viserys II, Aegon III 11 Aegon IV 8 8 Aegon IV Baelor I Daeron I 12 Daeron II 9 9 Daeron II 13 Aerys I 10 10 Aerys I, Maekar I 14 Maekar I 11 11 Aegon V 15 Aegon V 12 12 Jaeharerys 16 Jaehaerys II 13 The 2nd who wed his kids on word of woods witch 13. Aerys II 17 Aerys II ^ the other 13 connnection the 13 Iron Islands the Night's King being the 13th L.c. who served for 13 years. The last Hero and his companion numbering 13. Bran passes North of the Wall in the 13th chapter of ADWD 13 unions of Garth the Green. 13 children of Jaehaerys. And im sure im forgetting abunch off hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I did a thread once about the Grey King being one of two sons of Garth. A curse was placed on Garth's tomb that would make any who sought to equal him to become corpse like in appearance. Garth was High King before the Wall. Meaning he ruled the lands past the wall. This is key. The Grey King activates said curse of his father by warring with his brother the Rock King. So the Salt King wanted to rule Rock and Salt. The War begins. His children build the Wall and becomes the last Hero and future Night's King, Brandon the Builder. Who builds the wall and splits the land so that no one can rule all the kingdoms any more. Aerys II is missing the lands north of the Wall. This is why hard home was burned by Valyria i believe. For becoming a city north of the wall and breaking the pact. So Valyria takes dragonstone as a fortress. Edit- The Grey Kings children were Azor Ahai (Bran the Builder) and Nissa Nissa who bound dragons to their blood as a weapon. I also have a thread on how Alysanne is responsible for a possible Stark take over of House Targaryen ending the dragons and how Dany was able to bring dragons back. Even though she is a Stark. Its all in how Nissa Nissa did it and the Blood sacrifice/magic needed in only death may pay for life. Since Brandon built the wall but the wall may predate him as stone. Im curious your thoughts on when The Black Gate was put in. Maybe by The Grey King who slew Ygg the pale demon tree that fed on human flesh? Which sounds like Garth, who fed on human flesh to ensure a bountiful harvest and would die every autumn to be reborn in the spring again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: on dies on Jon Chapter 13 of ADWD. Merely a suggestion. You may want to look into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: Merely a suggestion. You may want to look into that. It's Jon's 13th chapter in the book, not the 13th chapter. Which is Bran passing beyond the Gates. Jon's 13th chapter is towards the end of the book and idk what actual chapter it is in the total count haha I know because i numbered my chapters to make it easier to reference sections. Just checked. Counting the prologue as chapter 1 in the total count, the Jon's 13th chapter is chapter 70 or 69th not counting prologue. If you dont' count the prologue. Bran meet's Bloodraven on the 13th chapter of the Book. That's what it was. Smarter than the average bear boo boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: It's Jon's 13th chapter in the book, not the 13th chapter. Argh! My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said: Argh! My bad. Hahah all good bro Not alot of people probably numbered their books chapters hahah i get pretty dissecting some times. Though i do occasionally make mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: Argh! My bad. You gotta think it's important though as we are told this about the Night's king being the 13th and all, before the 13th chapter where Bran meets Bloodraven. Bloodraven who served for 13 years as L.C. and loved a sorceress with pale skin. Then Jon dies on his 13th chapter. Idk what it all means, but there is definitely a connection between these two guys. Though Jon doesn't have a sorceress yet, unless him and Melisandre hook up. Though who knows what that would mean. And Gael, the Winter Child, 13th child of Alysanne. Is some how tied to this mess. Oh and the theory out that Melisandre is the Bleeding Star, the child of BloodRaven (Bleeding) and Shiera SeaStar (Star). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 21 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: You gotta think it's important though as we are told this about the Night's king being the 13th and all, before the 13th chapter where Bran meets Bloodraven. You are going to get me all confudicated again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said: You are going to get me all confudicated again. I get a lot of that haha Doesn't mean im wrong though and in all fairness, i had to google confudicated lol There is simply too much to take in and keep in the head all at once, even Elio Garcia can't do it with his Eidetic memory haha And even then, taking it all in is one thing. People ability to make connections with it them is another trick. I admittedly havn't picked up on all these on my own and others may have made connections i've seen. I remember a vid of Elio's where he talks about totally missing the Frey Pie incident till some one pointed attention to it else where. It's good for us all to be a little humble, my self included But to walk you or any one else reading this through some of it. Hugor had 44 sons.- promised kingdoms in distant lands. Iron Islands 44 total. - 44 Weirwoods cut down (Nagga's ribbs) 31 main group. - 31 Weirwoods cut down (High Heart) 13 farwyn group. 7 Largest. Andals invaded 2000 years ago-ish. 1000 years before that, the Brackens poison the Colossal Weirwood of House Blackwood which their dead are buried under (Or sitting on thrones jacked into). Bloodraven, of House Blackwood and only human in that cave jacked into the Trees. The long Night lasted a generation. The war with Blackwoods vs Brackens lasted 1000 years and started 1000 years before Andal Invasion. -Durran God's Grief king of 1000 years, vs The Grey King 1007 years. A generation they say, who's generation? A human generation, or a generation of the Empire of the Dawn? That the Farwyn Islands numbering 13 isn't an accident, but a clue to the path of the Night's King. Who was son of the Grey King, and Brandon Stark. Who also founded House Hightower, who like the Iron Born, predate the first men and were sailors. Brandon Stark can literally be translated as "Brave one of the Beacon Hill" (Google surnames, not Stark the adj.) So this could be translated as Brandon of the Hightower. He who light's the way, Azor Ahai, Lightbringer. That the Blackgate maybe Garth/Ygg, whom the grey king slew to awake fire and dragons from Weirwoods. His children bound the dragons to their blood i think. Hardhome- Hardhome was close to becoming the only true town north of the Wall. Before its destruction 600 years ago. Dragonstone- Two centuries before the Doom, Valyrians took possession of the island and built a castle upon it, which became the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian Freehold.[1] ~ 326 BC Osric Stark was a member of House Stark who became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch around 400 BC. Osric was only ten years old at the time, making him the youngest chosen for that position.[1] Maester Balder wrote The Edge of the World during Osric's rule of sixty years. Yes, Im saying this was part of the pact that ended the long night. That Osric Stark who became Lord Commander 600 years ago was put in or took down by House Valyrian. So House Stark was involved in some way, just unsure on which side. 1. Beyond the Wall.- Separated by the "Ice" Wall after the long night. 2. The North (Winterfell etc.) 3. Riverlands. 4. Iron Islands. 5. Vale. 6 Westerlands. 7. Reach 8. Storm Lands 9. Dorne Aerys II for example only rules 8 out of the 9. Hence he cannot activate the curse placed on Garth's barrow as the Grey King had. Im guessing that these were the lands the Grey King ruled from. It's important to remember that the Walls oldest foundations are of brick and predate the Ice Wall and that the Black Gate is built into the brick wall. So this was likely there before Brandon put up the Ice Wall. So Bloodraven being a Blackwood who served for 13 years as L.C. of the watch and loved a woman pale and corpse like and using Brandon Stark may all be connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 5 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: I get a lot of that haha Doesn't mean im wrong though and in all fairness, i had to google confudicated lol its not a word that could be found in a dictionary --- it is a combination of confused & befuddled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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