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Theda Baratheon

Outlander II: Sing me a Song...

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I don;t think that I've ever thought that this show had a "bad" or "boring" episode.... I mean, I don;t watch for action anyway... it would be like saying that Halt and Catch Fire was boring...its such a character driven show --and they've done such a good job of building this world, and getting us to root for Claire, Jaime and co-- that  to me, even the bridge episodes are interesting enough.... Moreover, I've yet to be disappointed with the payoff in the storyline.

And as far as the flaws in their characters, thats what makes us care... I for one, am a gigantic asshole... so I'll give C&J a pass every once in a while.

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I would have never thought I'd see something as dumb and incomprehensible as Ian swimming to the island in a show like Outlander... What renders the thing even more ridiculous is that a few seconds later, there is a goddamn boat with a bunch of (apparently smart compared to Claire and Jaime) pirates (or whatever), so it's not like the writers and everyone on the production team just magically forgot about boats.

Edited by Pliskin

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This is how it rolled in the novel.  Where there was a sort of, hand wavey, explanation as to why it had to be swum to, rather than boated to, which I can't remember.

 

Anyway, the point was to put them on the run, again, and keep Jamie and Claire from ever having a home, where, on Saturday night, ey can just put up their feet in front of the fire, drink whiskey and have happy happy happy sex.

Edited by Zorral

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>there was a sort of, hand wavey, explanation as to why it had to be swum to, rather than boated to, which I can't remember.

it was the strong currents and rips that were too dangerous for small boats, but could be managed by a strong competent swimmer

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Spoiler

Damn, here I was hoping for a high seas adventure this last episode. Still it was an interesting episode, not so much for the plot, but for the sailor culture. I appreciated getting glimpses into that mentality. I was initially annoyed at Willoughby when he didn't immediately announce the albatross, but liked how he handled it. What a showman! Fergus and Marsali, yaaaawwwnnn. 

Adding late spoiler tags just in case. Didn't realize that may have been a spoiler.

Edited by Astromech
Spoiler courtesy

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2 hours ago, Astromech said:

Damn, here I was hoping for a high seas adventure this last episode. Still it was an interesting episode, not so much for the plot, but for the sailor culture. I appreciated getting glimpses into that mentality. I was initially annoyed at Willoughby when he didn't immediately announce the albatross, but liked how he handled it. What a showman! Fergus and Marsali, yaaaawwwnnn. 

Wait!

Spoiler

It was a pelican in the book, which matters to the plot.  Did that change?

 

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15 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Wait!

  Reveal hidden contents

It was a pelican in the book, which matters to the plot.  Did that change?

 

Yup. I'll let you watch the episode.

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Hmm, I thought they said albatross, but I could be wrong. It sure didn't look like a pelican.

I completely forgot they were using the Black Sails set and ships.

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On 11/8/2017 at 9:05 PM, 6649er said:

>there was a sort of, hand wavey, explanation as to why it had to be swum to, rather than boated to, which I can't remember.

it was the strong currents and rips that were too dangerous for small boats, but could be managed by a strong competent swimmer

Which, you know, makes no sense, does it?

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3 hours ago, Astromech said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Hmm, I thought they said albatross, but I could be wrong. It sure didn't look like a pelican.

I completely forgot they were using the Black Sails set and ships.

After finishing the final ep of the final season of Black Sails, I went to Gutenberg to read Treasure Island, which sure is fun to do at that point.  (I have the book here, maybe even two or even three copies, but damn if they could be found in the welter of books here!)

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2 hours ago, Zorral said:

After finishing the final ep of the final season of Black Sails, I went to Gutenberg to read Treasure Island, which sure is fun to do at that point.  (I have the book here, maybe even two or even three copies, but damn if they could be found in the welter of books here!)

I'm sure with that ending to Black Sails it put Treasure Island in a whole new light depending on how you interpreted the ending.

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13 hours ago, Astromech said:

I'm sure with that ending to Black Sails it put Treasure Island in a whole new light depending on how you interpreted the ending.

O ya!  It's also been a long time since I'd re-read Treasure Island.  What isn't different though -- and this is brilliant of Black Sails, considering its unique social and political concerns (also so much part of the age), which are seldom if ever found in adventure entertainments --  from the first pages already, the evil miasma of the Urca treasure contagion is in play.  Hawkins, the boy, of course, like we kids who are much of Stevenson's targeted audience, can't see it.  But the boy can see danger, far more quickly than the adults do.

This particularly struck me in terms of Outlander, which television series I love, and now is doing the book after which I left reading the series.  Outlander is, in the end, only about the personal, and by extension to family and clan well-being, still only about personal concerns.  There were some, at least, among the Black Sails's crew, who had larger concerns of social and political justice, then on the eve of the era of Revolutions -- which Outlander books at some point try to play with as well. But it's still just about Claire and her family, really.

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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

 

This particularly struck me in terms of Outlander, which television series I love, and now is doing the book after which I left reading the series.  Outlander is, in the end, only about the personal, and by extension to family and clan well-being, still only about personal concerns.  There were some, at least, among the Black Sails's crew, who had larger concerns of social and political justice, then on the eve of the era of Revolutions -- which Outlander books at some point try to play with as well. But it's still just about Claire and her family, really.

This is my frustration with Outlander when I'm watching it. I'm really interested in the backdrop, the history, setting etc. But as you said, that is only the backdrop. The story is really about Claire and Jaime. I loved it back before and just after Culloden. Culloden seemed such an important part of the story. That backdrop was important, the events of Culloden and after shaped the story. Now after that dust has seemingly settled, the backdrop seems less important. I admit to oftentimes tuning out when Claire and Jaime are on screen together. The backdrop seems more important to me when they each have their own, short independent arcs. I like big events happening in the background like Culloden. Those events shape the story and mold the characters. The events of early Outlander could only take place around Culloden. Culloden seems a character in itself.

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13 minutes ago, Astromech said:

This is my frustration with Outlander when I'm watching it. I'm really interested in the backdrop, the history, setting etc. But as you said, that is only the backdrop. The story is really about Claire and Jaime. I loved it back before and just after Culloden. Culloden seemed such an important part of the story. That backdrop was important, the events of Culloden and after shaped the story. Now after that dust has seemingly settled, the backdrop seems less important. I admit to oftentimes tuning out when Claire and Jaime are on screen together. The backdrop seems more important to me when they each have their own, short independent arcs. I like big events happening in the background like Culloden. Those events shape the story and mold the characters. The events of early Outlander could only take place around Culloden. Culloden seems a character in itself.

:agree:  The romance was never the draw for me, ultimately.

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On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:05 PM, 6649er said:

>there was a sort of, hand wavey, explanation as to why it had to be swum to, rather than boated to, which I can't remember.

it was the strong currents and rips that were too dangerous for small boats, but could be managed by a strong competent swimmer

The problem was it was just a bit of rocky outcrop, off a rocky shore, in the middle of no where. No place to store a boat, to launch from, to land it, no one close enough to borrow one from.

The ship and little boat with a crew is an option, but then you have to tell people why you want to visit that little bit of rock and the secret is out.

btw

in the books, Ian and Jenny already know about it.  They have gone twice (the two older boys once each) to get a gem to save the people from starving. I assume they never take more than what is absolutely necessary because it would raise suspicions, and I doubt they could find a hiding place good enough if word got out they had a treasure

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I liked the latest episode. There were some interesting plot developments. Jamie's arc was mostly boring, but Claire's was good. And the locations are all taking me back to Black Sails, which is an extremely good thing.

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This season has been a real slog for me.  I thought I remembered this book in the series to be fun, fast paced and exciting but it's not translating well to the screen.  Or maybe I'm just misremembering how I felt about the book.  

I'm also becoming quite annoyed with peripheral female characters having such little development.  It seems like Father WhatHisName had much more development than the Brothel Owner, Mamacita and Goat Lady combined.  

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11 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This season has been a real slog for me.  I thought I remembered this book in the series to be fun, fast paced and exciting but it's not translating well to the screen.  Or maybe I'm just misremembering how I felt about the book.  

I'm also becoming quite annoyed with peripheral female characters having such little development.  It seems like Father WhatHisName had much more development than the Brothel Owner, Mamacita and Goat Lady combined.  

I agree, and I just re-read the books.  I was really surprised with so many of the long drawn out scenes and made up stuff (like the ship being becalmed for weeks and weeks) when there was already a lot of action in the story.

While I agree with the lack of character development among the minor female characters, this was also true in the books. Other than Claire, the only ones who get any amount of development are Brianna, Gellis, Jenny, Jocasta, Rachel, maybe Dottie and Mrs. Bug a little, but mostly, the other women are just there.  Even Malva doesn't get much of her own*. Brianna is the only one who gets any significant amount of development. Loaghaire at 36 acts just like she did at 16 ("mine, mine, mine") and Marsali who is in books 3-8 goes from calling Claire a "whir" to "Mother Claire" in book 3, then doesn't change much at all after that.  My favorite female, that gets so short shifted is Joan MacKimmie Fraser (Marsali's little sister).  She has a sharp mind and a fine grasp of legal contracts/ideas. She would be awesome to see developed.  Maybe she'll get a novella in the future.

*spoiler

even with Claire's feelings for her, and all the drama that happens because of her and her death, she really doesn't get a lot of development. We even get what happened between her and her brother from HIS POV, not hers.

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1 hour ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

I agree, and I just re-read the books.  I was really surprised with so many of the long drawn out scenes and made up stuff (like the ship being becalmed for weeks and weeks) when there was already a lot of action in the story.

While I agree with the lack of character development among the minor female characters, this was also true in the books. Other than Claire, the only ones who get any amount of development are Brianna, Gellis, Jenny, Jocasta, Rachel, maybe Dottie and Mrs. Bug a little, but mostly, the other women are just there.  Even Malva doesn't get much of her own*. Brianna is the only one who gets any significant amount of development. Loaghaire at 36 acts just like she did at 16 ("mine, mine, mine") and Marsali who is in books 3-8 goes from calling Claire a "whir" to "Mother Claire" in book 3, then doesn't change much at all after that.  My favorite female, that gets so short shifted is Joan MacKimmie Fraser (Marsali's little sister).  She has a sharp mind and a fine grasp of legal contracts/ideas. She would be awesome to see developed.  Maybe she'll get a novella in the future.

*spoiler

 

  Reveal hidden contents

even with Claire's feelings for her, and all the drama that happens because of her and her death, she really doesn't get a lot of development. We even get what happened between her and her brother from HIS POV, not hers.

 

This is true.  I just expected/hoped the show would be different on this.  Almost all of the scenes with the priest were useless and it was made more obvious on screen that they ignored Mamacita (or made her a stereotype) in favor of this priest who was only needed to officiate a wedding.  It seemed like all the actors even realized all of his "but you have no hand" was stupid dialogue because no one was selling it.  

They have somewhat improved Mr. Willoughby.  Wish they could improve the tertiary female characters.  

About Joan, doesn't she have a novella?  The Space Between was Joan focused, iirc.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

 

About Joan, doesn't she have a novella?  The Space Between was Joan focused, iirc.

Oh, I don't think I read that one.  I only have the original series and Lord John ones.

Looks like it is in the "7 Stones to Stand or Fall" which I have been thinking about getting.

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