Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[Zorral]

The graduate -- well, escapee -- from the House of Black and White, where she's fully educated in the countless faces of death, Arya.  In the trailer she says death has many faces and she's looking forward to seeing this one.  I'm assuming it's the NK she's referring to as she strokes the dragon glass blade.

[Meera of Tarth]

9 hours ago, Mystical said:

If it's really Bran then I hope the NK makes it long and suffering for him. My God Bran's list of fuck ups is just too huge at this point. Bran should know it's him the NK is after, should have sacrificed himself north of the wall and the NK would have been happy apprently. Instead thousands have to die for what exactly? For Bran? He's done nothing to deserve it. Even if he defeats the NK in the end. Surely he could have done that north of the wall. But instead he came south for what? Meat shields he doesn't care about that protect him until he does something useful for once?

It's not Bran's fault that he is badly written. And technically the Army of the Dead are South of the Wall because of Jon's stupidities. Yeah, Viserion, wight trips, etc.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Friki said in his trailer analysis video that all the trailer scenes were from the first 3 episodes.  

So Cersei drinking wine again likely means her miscarriage happens in the first 3 episodes. 

That would also mean the shot of Tyrion is not from his dragonpit trial, as some have speculated.  

[Mystical]

56 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It's not Bran's fault that he is badly written. And technically the Army of the Dead are South of the Wall because of Jon's stupidities. Yeah, Viserion, wight trips, etc.

Bran's main theme has always been getting everyone killed. From the first episode of the show when he disobeyed his mother and went climbing the walls anyway, which fed into the Stark-Lannister conflict to come. And Jon's actions never would have happened if not for Bran coming south of the wall. He can see the future (his visions had future stuff in it) so if Bran is the one the NK wants, then Bran should know that. Therefor he should have stayed north of the wall and taken on the NK there, win or lose. If he's the person the NK wants, then all is well for everyone south of the wall because Bran was north of it. Anything that follows would not have happened then.

But I don't think it will be Bran because it makes no sense. I'm kind of hoping that D&D put a little more effort into the final Season than they have for years (slim hope I admit). Bran would be too obvious a candidate, for one. NK also had Bran in his clutches during vision time and could have taken him out. If not in the vision then definitely after killing original 3ER. It would be really stupid if it turned out to be Bran.

[T and A]

12 hours ago, Mystical said:

 

But I don't think it will be Bran because it makes no sense. I'm kind of hoping that D&D put a little more effort into the final Season than they have for years (slim hope I admit). Bran would be too obvious a candidate, for one. NK also had Bran in his clutches during vision time and could have taken him out. If not in the vision then definitely after killing original 3ER. It would be really stupid if it turned out to be Bran.

D&D said every year, including their last interview of this year, that they knew from the end of season 2 how the last episodes are gonna be, and that they had changed nothing since then. After season two they had a big meeting with GRRM (over a couple of days) to discuss how the series end. So if it is indeed Bran that the White Walkers are behind, that it is straight up from GRRM, not D&D. 

GRRM recently said also that a couple of minor characters will have a different story than in the books. This means also that the big characters (and Bran is undiscutably one of them) will end up with the same story as in the books. I found it quite weird from GRRM to give such a huge Spoiler for the books, but well, he did.

[Mystical]

10 minutes ago, T and A said:

D&D said every year, including their last interview of this year, that they knew from the end of season 2 how the last episodes are gonna be, and that they had changed nothing since then. After season two they had a big meeting with GRRM (over a couple of days) to discuss how the series end. So if it is indeed Bran that the White Walkers are behind, that it is straight up from GRRM, not D&D. 

GRRM recently said also that a couple of minor characters will have a different story than in the books. This means also that the big characters (and Bran is undiscutably one of them) will end up with the same story as in the books. I found it quite weird from GRRM to give such a huge Spoiler for the books, but well, he did.

I don't really buy any of this. I don't think when this was in the early phases anyone had any idea about the direction. I don't think GRRM expected not to have at least another book out during the run of the show. And he would be stupid if he actually told them the real story. If people know the ending, not good for book sales. And considering all the changes D&D made, the show doesn't resemble the books much at this point anyway. It's it's own separate thing. And who says that was a spoiler by GRRM? It's called misleading. Or since he's still under contract with HBO, toeing the party line. What else can he say while under contract other than 'yep it's more or less the same'? After all, GRRM has been passive aggressively dissing the show here and there instead of outright attacking it (because contract).

Besides, all I've said was that Bran makes no sense with how D&D told their story up until this point. Just as Jon would make no sense as the NK target.

[T and A]

12 minutes ago, Mystical said:

I don't really buy any of this. I don't think when this was in the early phases anyone had any idea about the direction. I don't think GRRM expected not to have at least another book out during the run of the show. And he would be stupid if he actually told them the real story. If people know the ending, not good for book sales. And considering all the changes D&D made, the show doesn't resemble the books much at this point anyway. It's it's own separate thing. And who says that was a spoiler by GRRM? It's called misleading. Or since he's still under contract with HBO, toeing the party line. What else can he say while under contract other than 'yep it's more or less the same'? After all, GRRM has been passive aggressively dissing the show here and there instead of outright attacking it (because contract).

Besides, all I've said was that Bran makes no sense with how D&D told their story up until this point. Just as Jon would make no sense as the NK target.

I disagree completely . HBO would be stupid, if they sign up a contract and throw money out at him, without knowing exactly what he plans. Just as he would be stupid to sign something he knows nothing about. He could change the plan in the mean time regarding the story, true, but that would backfire to him, since he has now also another contract signed with HBO regarding the prequel and he would loose trust to his partners at HBO. I believe both sides treat each other with respect and keep it that way, since both sides seem to be happy working together and they tend to continue their partnership. There is no reason why any of the two sides would decide to anger the other side. That would make no sense. You must always view it from the business perspective, not from the fan perspective. Everything else you might read is just the fans on the internet.

[Kajjo]

On 3/8/2019 at 2:06 PM, Mystical said:

My God Bran's list of fuck ups is just too huge at this point.

Really? What are his fuck-ups so far? He was a very young boy when leaving Winterfell, assisted by two youngsters, Meera and Jojen. Bran was only partly educated by the three-eyed raven and has to get along with his partial abilities. Please elaborate what Bran did wrong.

On 3/8/2019 at 2:06 PM, Mystical said:

should have sacrificed himself north of the wall

You know why all this happens, right? My goodness, get a grip. Surely there is something to the whole story we do not know yet and the issue was not solvable up in the three-eyed rave cave. Even the Children of the Forest sacirficed themselves to Bran would live. There is surely something that must be solved.  Your theory is so drastically too simple, it almost hurts.

[Kajjo]

14 hours ago, Mystical said:

He can see the future

No, he can't just simply watch the future. We have no indication to that, yet. 

He can zoom into the past if he knows what to look for. He is able to select any scene of the past at any location, but of course he cannot see everything at the same that ever occured everywhere in the world. Get a grip. When Sam tolds him there was a marriage between Rhaegar and Lyanna, he is able to find that scene. Without knowing this scene existed, it would have been difficult or maybe impossible. We do not know how this "seeing the past" really works and surely he has to leanr to do so. The raven told us, Bran's education was not finished. You should argue a little bit close to the content we know and not make such absurd claims.

Bran can also warg into animals (and some people) of the present, e.g. the raven when the wall breaks down. Again, he most probably has to know what to look for.

1 hour ago, T and A said:

I disagree completely

So do I. 

Of course GRRM has interest in a solid storyline of Game of Thrones. He probably intentionally did not publish the books as not to spoil the show. 

I believe DD and GRRM agreed on the general storyline. Both promised that the end of the story will be the same in the books and the show. I belive this for the main characters and the main idea of the story.

[Lady Anna]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

I don't really buy any of this. I don't think when this was in the early phases anyone had any idea about the direction. I don't think GRRM expected not to have at least another book out during the run of the show. And he would be stupid if he actually told them the real story. If people know the ending, not good for book sales. And considering all the changes D&D made, the show doesn't resemble the books much at this point anyway. It's it's own separate thing. And who says that was a spoiler by GRRM? It's called misleading. Or since he's still under contract with HBO, toeing the party line. What else can he say while under contract other than 'yep it's more or less the same'? After all, GRRM has been passive aggressively dissing the show here and there instead of outright attacking it (because contract).

Besides, all I've said was that Bran makes no sense with how D&D told their story up until this point. Just as Jon would make no sense as the NK target.

He could have told them the ending (that is, the fate of major characters, plots, etc) precisely because the books would have been finished before the show ended. or the show could be canceled and things wouldn't matter. That said, that was in 2012 (?) so he could have changed things since then, and especially now since the show superseded the books.

Although with how things have been going, I believe you're right when you say no one knew about the direction of the story, since it seems not even George was/is aware of it

[Lady Anna]

12 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I believe DD and GRRM agreed on the general storyline. Both promised that the end of the story will be the same in the books and the show. I belive this for the main characters and the main idea of the story.

Agreed. There was no reason for George not to have told the general ending of the story. I mean this was like 8, 9 years ago, they had both no ideia what would eventually happen to the show and the book series.

[DisneyDoc2425]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 4:47 PM, Kajjo said:

I agree with this guess. There is an obvious enemy relation between NK and the three-eyed raven. 

We already know that the NK wanted to kill the three-eyed raven or Bran north of the wall, when Hodor had to sacrifice hilself, as well his dire wolf and the Children of the Forest. It's quite clear.

The main question still is: Why? Hopefully, they will provide a good answer and story to that.

 I agree that it is tied into Bran being the Three Eyed Raven (3ER). The COTF reportedly created the NK to fight men but he then became rogue and began to try to exterminate them. Perhaps the COTF subsequently created a 3ER entity in an attempt to destroy the NK to defend themselves (I realize that nothing about this has been shown yet in the show). Perhaps there have been numerous 3ER's over the years and initially their creation had limited abilities/powers to challenge/counteract the NK. However with each subsequent 3ER these powers have progressively increased to the point where Bran could now really challenge the NK, becoming a major threat the NK needs to eliminate.

I suspect one of the abilities of the NK was to “freeze” the normal seasonal time cycle (wheel) so that it was always freezing north of the wall. He needed to do this to protect his growing “family” of WW's who would be doomed if summer seasons arose. This disruption has also led to the disturbances in the seasonal time cycles south of the wall (the walls “magic” could not completely block this) which has led to the disturbances and unpredictability of the seasons south of the wall.

As the 3ER's powers/abilities progressed over time it has gotten to the point where the 3ER has sufficient greenseer abilities to return back in time to challenge and make changes that would threaten the NK. I suspect the seat of power for the NK is the alter in the north where he converted the babies to WW's. The 3ER's seat of power probably lies in the Godswood in the Isle of Faces. The NK wants to destroy this area (along with the current 3ER) and the allies of the 3ER (Jon/Daenerys) need to destroy the northern alter and the NK. I would not be surprised if this will become a major plot line in Season 8. Somehow I believe an additional factor in negating some of the NK's power will also be related the the birth of the PTWP (Jon's and Daenerys' child), though I'm not really sure how this would fit in. Perhaps it has something to do with the agreement made to end the first long night 5-8000 years ago.

Just some thoughts I had. Probably won't turn out this way.

 

[Mystical]

1 hour ago, T and A said:

You must always view it from the business perspective, not from the fan perspective. Everything else you might read is just the fans on the internet.

I do view it from a business perspective from GRRM's POV. It would be stupid of GRRM to tell them how exactly he plans to end it. Some details sure, but all of it? He still planned to finish the books back then. Why would anyone buy his books if they know exactly how it ends already? Sure the journey will be different in the books, and for some that's interesting. But for quite a few people they would see no need to buy his books when they know the exact ending from the show.

26 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Really? What are his fuck-ups so far? He was a very young boy when leaving Winterfell, assisted by two youngsters, Meera and Jojen. Bran was only partly educated by the three-eyed raven and has to get along with his partial abilities. Please elaborate what Bran did wrong.

Are you serious? He refused to listen to his mother and is partially responsible for getting the Lannister-Stark feud going. He got Rickon, Osha and Shaggydog killed by sending them away. He got the 3ER killed. Summer. Hodor who he used like a beast of burden and violated repeatedly, aka the guy who Bran gave brain damage to in the first place. And he made an entire species go extinct (if those were the last children). And lets remember that he is basically a god who sits on his ass doing nothing all day except watch Stark home videos.

30 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

You know why all this happens, right? My goodness, get a grip.

Get a grip yourself and learn context. My reply was specifically about the scenario of Bran being the NK target.

Btw do you know something I don't about the new Season and therefor know 'why this all happens'? If you do please share, if you don't then don't act like you do.

27 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

No, he can't just simply watch the future. We have no indication to that, yet.

For someone who acts like they know it all you really don't pay much attention to the show. We had visions of Bran's that showed the future in S6. Including the blowing up of the Sept.

So yes, it was indicated that he can see the future. If D&D made a mistake and backtracked on that, we should have been told somehow. Otherwise it's just them writing themselves into a corner yet again and dropping that plot point because 'reasons'.

[Nowy Tends]

5 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Are you serious? He refused to listen to his mother and is partially responsible for getting the Lannister-Stark feud going. He got Rickon, Osha and Shaggydog killed by sending them away. He got the 3ER killed. Summer. Hodor who he used like a beast of burden and violated repeatedly, aka the guy who Bran gave brain damage to in the first place. And he made an entire species go extinct (if those were the last children). And lets remember that he is basically a god who sits on his ass doing nothing all day except watch Stark home videos.

Wow.  Why wouldn't you start one more hate thread; this is a "News/Spoiler/leaks" thread, not Hyde Park Speaker's corner…

[Mystical]

1 minute ago, Nowy Tends said:

Wow.  Why wouldn't you start one more hate thread; this is a "News/Spoiler/leaks" thread, not Hyde Park Speaker's corner…

Wow. When someone asks me a question, I answer. It's called basic courtesy. I was asked, I answered. And your reply is as off topic as mine then, since it has nothing to do with the thread topic. Hope you appreciate the irony you brought on yourself.

[T and A]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

do view it from a business perspective from GRRM's POV. It would be stupid of GRRM to tell them how exactly he plans to end it. Some details sure, but all of it? He still planned to finish the books back then. Why would anyone buy his books if they know exactly how it ends already? Sure the journey will be different in the books, and for some that's interesting. But for quite a few people they would see no need to buy his books when they know the exact ending from the show.

There are several mistakes you make here:

a) GRRM told the story to the co-producers of the show (himself also being one), thus to Business Partners and not to random people. It is state of the art that in such negotiations D&D and HBO would have to sign a confidentiality agreement. Thus they are not allowed to talk about anything to the public. If they do...well, GRRM can sue the shit out of them.

b) Why would HBO spoil the show to the public? That destroys their own show. Hell, just see how they protect the TV show from spoilers every year and what they do to keep it that way. They are more interested in keeping the season a secret until it airs, then GRRM. 

c) In 2012 GRRM never thought the show will ever be ahead of his books. Thus he never thought that the show might spoil the books. Thus, he did not worrie back then about potential spoilers by the show. 

 

[BalerionTheCat]

5 hours ago, Mystical said:

 He refused to listen to his mother and is partially responsible for getting the Lannister-Stark feud going. He got Rickon, Osha and Shaggydog killed by sending them away. He got the 3ER killed. Summer. Hodor who he used like a beast of burden and violated repeatedly, aka the guy who Bran gave brain damage to in the first place. And he made an entire species go extinct (if those were the last children). And lets remember that he is basically a god who sits on his ass doing nothing all day except watch Stark home videos.

So you also hate Bran. You seem to hate Daenerys. You said Jon was utterly stupid, suffering major brain damage. So is there someone you like? Except Cersei you said you understood.

[Mystical]

26 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

So you also hate Bran. You seem to hate Daenerys. You said Jon was utterly stupid, suffering major brain damage. So is there someone you like? Except Cersei you said you understood.

I don't really hate anyone on the show other than the obvious psychos (like Joff, Ramsey). I don't like Cersei as a person, however her villainy was vastly hearsay until she actually blew up the sept. But for me to hate (or like) the characters they actually have to be characters first. As Cogman said, the show isn't character driven, it's plot driven. Therefor characters are just pieces used to advance the plot. Since they aren't really characters, why would I invest in them to the point of hate (or like)? All I can do is judge the plot the characters are placed in and what I see vs. sometimes what the show is telling me to see. When I call the characters stupid, I'm clearly referring to the plot (aka writing). If Sansa can have 4-5 different personalities in S6 for the plot, Jon can have brain damage for plot.

Hence me saying that Bran should have stayed north of the Wall if he is who the NK is after. Then the NK has no reason to go beyond the wall. And Bran should know this. So stay north kid. And how it doesn't make sense if it is Bran because then he would have been toast in 6x05 as the NK had it easy there to kill both 3ER and Bran. He clearly let him escape, just like he always lets Jon escape. Which is also why Jon makes no sense as the NK target.

[Leticia Stark]

44 minutes ago, Mystical said:

If Sansa can have 4-5 different personalities in S6 for the plot, Jon can have brain damage for plot.

I screamed at the accuracy!

[Leticia Stark]

Anyway, I want this to be here already.

I don't even care about the story, we already know D&D's scripts are not going to get better, so we should at least appreciate the visuals.