Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[Error-504]

3 hours ago, Risto said:

Has she? After her interaction with Night King, he became far more serious threat than before. One can actually argue that having Viserion sped up the White Walkers invasion.

Being Cersei's enemy is hardly a recommendation. Daenerys is someone who can restore the worst kind of totalitarian regimes, People doubting in her, not trusting or liking her, being reserrved, all of that is normal. She comes with Dothraki and former slaves, on the back of a dragon, demanding kingdoms, burning people left and right. Just because we, as watchers, understand Dany, doesn't mean it is something that is a common knowledge in Westeros. 

Once again, just like it was normal for Jon and Dany to resolve some issues between them, it is normal to expect the same for Dany and Sansa. 

Has she? After her interaction with Night King, he became far more serious threat than before. One can actually argue that having Viserion sped up the White Walkers invasion.

 

Was she to blame for that or jon? 

Being Cersei's enemy is hardly a recommendation.

Seriously? No really, Seriously? 

People doubting in her, not trusting or liking her, being reserrved, all of that is normal. She comes with Dothraki and former slaves, on the back of a dragon, demanding kingdoms, burning people left and right. Just because we, as watchers, understand Dany, doesn't mean it is something that is a common knowledge in Westeros. 

They elected Jon KotN, he and he alone is allowed to make that judgment. Remember the BotB's? People had doubt in the wildlings as well. How mauch scene time was given to that before it was solved? This Northerners vs Dany thing should be given nothing more. Burning people left and right...give it a rest. Stannis burned people, Cersie burned people, yada yada yada. War is hell. Let it rest with the burning people left and right already, it's an old tired trope. 

Once again, just like it was normal for Jon and Dany to resolve some issues between them, it is normal to expect the same for Dany and Sansa. 

What's at debate here as how long it should take to resolve these issues, and a complete failure to understand the situation at hand. After the battle against the WW's there should be no issues, none what-so-ever. 

[Error-504]

2 hours ago, Mystical said:

Why don't those people who don't understand the difference between character perspective and audience perspective just jump into the screen and hand characters like Sansa or the Northern Lords their copies of S1-7? Then they are as up to speed on everything as the audience is and can then make a fully informed decision regarding Dany.

The WW's are coming and they are a week away. without Dany's help we all die, our children die. There is no other way out of this. All they need to know to make an "informed decision". 

[Error-504]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

If Sam likes the idea of Jon as king better than Dany as queen like leaks imply, she's fucked. He's the moral dividing line. If you're rooting against him, audiences should reflect.

Maybe Sam should visit Mareen? 

[Mladen]

Just now, Error-504 said:

Seriously? No really, Seriously? 

Yes, seriously. The world is far more complicated than "Every person who hates Cersei is honky dory" For all Sansa and Notrtherners know, they may exchange one despot for another. And this one has weapons of mass destruction. Dany is far more dangerous than Cersei and that does not make her look good in cards of those who actually have never seen her.

3 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

They elected Jon KotN, he and he alone is allowed to make that judgment. Remember the BotB's? People had doubt in the wildlings as well. How mauch scene time was given to that before it was solved? This Northerners vs Dany thing should be given nothing more. Burning people left and right...give it a rest. Stannis burned people, Cersie burned people, yada yada yada. War is hell. Let it rest with the burning people left and right already, it's an old tired trope. 

What was given can be taken. Even Robb was smart enough to know that. Jon's problem is that he is doing the best thing, but he neglects the emotions of those he leads. That is what happened in NW and we all know how that ended. Once again, he just discarded all the negative (and in many ways, reasonable) opinions about Dany and just expects everything to be perfect. That is not how the world operates and the mere idea that we are discarding Northeners and Valemen regarding Targaryen when in fact all of them bled by Dany's father is truly hysterical.

Dany and Northerners should be something that writers need to deal with. There is a very real and very reasonable strife between two sides and understanding that they need each other, understanding each other and moving past that should be done properly. I sincerely doubt GoT writers will do so and we most likely will get something like "we are besties after one speech"

Dany burned Tarlys for not surrendering to her. Can Northerners expect that? Even Tyrion and Varys talked about that. Burning Tarlys was not war, it was a cold decision to kill people who won't submit to you. One has to wonder why Northerners would feel threatened by her? Oh, wait...

12 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

What's at debate here as how long it should take to resolve these issues, and a complete failure to understand the situation at hand. After the battle against the WW's there should be no issues, none what-so-ever. 

Oh, they will cram it in an episode or two. But, the issue is, if we are to believe these new spoilers, instead of having Sansa and Daenerys communicating with each other, we have Jon asking Arya for help, which does a great disservice to all characters involved.

8 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

The WW's are coming and they are a week away. without Dany's help we all die, our children die. There is no other way out of this. All they need to know to make an "informed decision". 

You see, explaining them the necessity of alliance with Dany is something that Jon should have done. No one here believes that at the end of the day North and Vale won't bow to Dany, just that calling Sansa a bitch or Northern lords simple minded for not bending the knee the moment they see Dany is actually missing quite a lot. 

[Error-504]

2 minutes ago, Risto said:

Yes, seriously. The world is far more complicated than "Every person who hates Cersei is honky dory" For all Sansa and Notrtherners know, they may exchange one despot for another. And this one has weapons of mass destruction. Dany is far more dangerous than Cersei and that does not make her look good in cards of those who actually have never seen her.

What was given can be taken. Even Robb was smart enough to know that. Jon's problem is that he is doing the best thing, but he neglects the emotions of those he leads. That is what happened in NW and we all know how that ended. Once again, he just discarded all the negative (and in many ways, reasonable) opinions about Dany and just expects everything to be perfect. That is not how the world operates and the mere idea that we are discarding Northeners and Valemen regarding Targaryen when in fact all of them bled by Dany's father is truly hysterical.

Dany and Northerners should be something that writers need to deal with. There is a very real and very reasonable strife between two sides and understanding that they need each other, understanding each other and moving past that should be done properly. I sincerely doubt GoT writers will do so and we most likely will get something like "we are besties after one speech"

Dany burned Tarlys for not surrendering to her. Can Northerners expect that? Even Tyrion and Varys talked about that. Burning Tarlys was not war, it was a cold decision to kill people who won't submit to you. One has to wonder why Northerners would feel threatened by her? Oh, wait...

Oh, they will cram it in an episode or two. But, the issue is, if we are to believe these new spoilers, instead of having Sansa and Daenerys communicating with each other, we have Jon asking Arya for help, which does a great disservice to all characters involved.

You see, explaining them the necessity of alliance with Dany is something that Jon should have done. No one here believes that at the end of the day North and Vale won't bow to Dany, just that calling Sansa a bitch or Northern lords simple minded for not bending the knee the moment they see Dany is actually missing quite a lot. 

And jon beheaded Jamos for disobeying an order, I am sure Jamos has family somewhere as well. is beheading somehow less evil then being burned by dragonfire? Ned Stark killed someone for merely crossing the wall. Pointless manufactured drama. 

Again, the WW's are coming. They will be here in a week. Nothing more needs to be said. Without Dany's help we all die. Anyone with a better plan speak up? 

What? Nobody? 

End of debate. 

[Mladen]

1 minute ago, Error-504 said:

And jon beheaded Jamos for disobeying an order, I am sure Jamos has family somewhere as well. is beheading somehow less evil then being burned by dragonfire? Ned Stark killed someone for merely crossing the wall. Pointless manufactured drama. 

Again, the WW's are coming. They will be here in a week. Nothing more needs to be said. Without Dany's help we all die. Anyone with a better plan speak up? 

What? Nobody? 

End of debate. 

Here is a thing. This is not a first War for Dawn. And as far as we know, dragons didn't win the first time. So, there might be a plan... 

That said, WW don't change everything. Yes, people will bend the knee, but they have the right to feel as if their hands are being twisted behind their backs. As I say, not counting on that would mean that Cersei being Cersei is impossible. And yet, even though she has seen WW, she betrayed the living. So, people still have the right on emotions, resentment etc. WW don't change that.

[Rose of Red Lake]

I agree with most of your assessments, @Risto but I do believe they won't kneel to Dany. I believe the Northerners are so pissed that they'll act like the Dornish during Aegon's invasion. They're adamant about no dragon rulers.

Do you see #1 Stark fan Lyanna kneeling to a Targaryen dragon queen?

The climate is already set up for extreme anti-outsider sentiment, in addition to fear of dragons on their doorstep, and Dany has been careless with her track record so far in Westeros. But it still doesn't matter, she could be the best queen ever, if they want independence they'll fight like Dorne. 

One could also ask why does Dany need them to bend the knee at all if politics don't matter any more. True heroes don't ask for prizes. Either she's playing politics or she's selfless. She could diffuse the situation by giving the North their independence like she did for Yara. Or listen to the wishes of who they want to rule them. If its not her, she should help anyway. Or she really is a tyrant. 

[Error-504]

8 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I agree with most of your assessments, @Risto but I do believe they won't kneel to Dany. I believe the Northerners are so pissed that they'll act like the Dornish during Aegon's invasion. They're adamant about no dragon rulers.

Do you see #1 Stark fan Lyanna kneeling to a Targaryen dragon queen?

The climate is already set up for extreme anti-outsider sentiment, in addition to fear of dragons on their doorstep, and Dany has been careless with her track record so far in Westeros. But it still doesn't matter, she could be the best queen ever, if they want independence they'll fight like Dorne. 

One could also ask why does Dany need them to bend the knee at all if politics don't matter any more. True heroes don't ask for prizes. Either she's playing politics or she's selfless. She could diffuse the situation by giving the North their independence like she did for Yara. Or listen to the wishes of who they want to rule them. If its not her, she should help anyway. Or she really is a tyrant. 

She has already given the North what she gave to Yara. And dany doesn't require Lyanna bend the knee, Jon has already done that. 

But I digress, go on making a mountain our of a mole hill. 

maybe Dany should really just turnaround and go back south, if she is to be received like this. 

I wonder if Tormund will have an issue bending the knee to Dany? 

[Rose of Red Lake]

 

9 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

She has already given the North what she gave to Yara. And dany doesn't require Lyanna bend the knee, Jon has already done that. 

Just because he bent the knee doesn't mean they will. When Torrhen bent the knee a group of people rejected his decision. In the books what's going on in Dorne is very tenuous because if Doran is shown as being too deferential to the Lannisters and kneels to the wrong people, his own people could overthrow him. Dorne is important foreshadowing for the North. 

9 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

 But I digress, go on making a mountain our of a mole hill. 

Sam decision to choose Jon over Dany isn't a molehill. 

9 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

maybe Dany should really just turnaround and go back south, if she is to be received like this. 

Do want her to get her hands and feets kissed? Or to save people? Heroes don't demand "respect." They just do what needs to be done, and let it roll off their backs. 

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

10 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

She has already given the North what she gave to Yara.

Wait, what?

[Error-504]

The Northerners to Dany:

Dear Dany, thank you very much for saving the life of our King, Jon Snow, the KotN. We appreciated the sacrifice you made losing one of your children in the process. At this time we would also like to request that you suspend your war with Cersei, stop dead in your tracks, and come to the North's aid. You will need to bring all the unsullied, all the Dothraki, and any other forces you have managed to pick up along the way. By doing this you are full aware that the vast majority of your forces may be lost, and it is quite possible you might also lose another dragon, or maybe even both. 

In return the North will do nothing but bitch about you, perhaps even stab you in the back. And should you be successful, despite incurring heavy casualties, the North will not bend the knee, nor recognize you as a the legitimate ruler of Westeros (assuming of course that goal is even obtainable after helping us). The North will commit no forces to your further endeavors, but Sansa will bake you a plate of lemon Cakes for your troubles. 

 

Thank you

signed

The Northern Morons

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 hour ago, Lady of Mercia said:

I came here for spoilers and leaks and instead I got pages of fan-fiction being (rightfully) torn apart. Isn't there a speculation thread to talk about these things? All I want is actual spoilers (or even fake ones we can laugh at).

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/b3uilq/traslation_of_the_last_vid_of_fk_episode_8x01/

[Error-504]

4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

 

Just because he bent the knee doesn't mean they will. When Torrhen bent the knee a group of people rejected his decision. In the books what's going on in Dorne is very tenuous because if Doran is shown as being too deferential to the Lannisters and kneels to the wrong people, his own people could overthrow him. Dorne is important foreshadowing for the North. 

Sam decision to choose Jon over Dany isn't a molehill. 

Do want her to get her hands and feets kissed? Or to save people? Heroes don't demand "respect." They just do what needs to be done, and let it roll off their backs. 

 

Sam hasn't choosen Jon over Dany, where do you come up with this tripe? Sam only knows of Jon's parentage. Are you saying that Sam will insist Jon make a play for the Iron throne, even though all Jon wants to do is stay in the North? You don't think Sam will take Jon's word that Dany can be trusted (and yeah, I know it's complicated with Sam and his father/brother and all). 

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 minute ago, Error-504 said:

Sam hasn't choosen Jon over Dany, where do you come up with this tripe? Sam only knows of Jon's parentage. Are you saying that Sam will insist Jon make a play for the Iron throne, even though all Jon wants to do is stay in the North? You don't think Sam will take Jon's word that Dany can be trusted (and yeah, I know it's complicated with Sam and his father/brother and all). 

From the link I just posted: "

"Sam goes down to the crypts to inform Jon, but does not reveal it yet but tells him about his father and brother. Sam tells him that Daenerys does not have to be the queen, but that he is the one who should be king, and if friends Sam finally reveals to Jon who really is."

[Error-504]

7 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm relaying information that people asked for. Should I "GTFO"?

These leaks are credible, they came from frikki's source in Spain, likely in the dubbing department. They are translated from Spanish. HBO just took his video down yesterday and is currently taking legal actions against him. People are talking about these leaks all over the internet right now, some have even leaked the first episode. 

I don't know what Jon says in reply. Looks like the scene ends. 

Only answered half my questions, how convenient. Don't you think Jon's response might be relevant to the conversation at hand? Don't really care about frikki, this is his last gasp at relevancy, as GOT is coming to an end. Not saying they are right, nor am I saying they are wrong, just to be taken at face value. This isn't a debate over who I would think would make a better leader, Jon or Dany, so try to stay on topic. This is a debate on how the North should receive Dany.

[Mystical]

1 hour ago, Error-504 said:

The WW's are coming and they are a week away. without Dany's help we all die, our children die. There is no other way out of this. All they need to know to make an "informed decision". 

Except Cersei wouldn't send the GC anywhere near where those people we don't want to die are, if it wasn't for the collection of morons. From Dany to Tyrion to Jon. Thousands are going to die as the AotD swarms through the North. Thanks to the involvement with Dany, bending the knee and refusing to lie, Jon put a bulls eye on the North's back. So whoever survives the dead, many more will die in another war. All they had to do was ignore Cersei last Season, hell Dany could have killed Cersei in a single day. Fly directly to her window and dracarys. How is that so freaking hard? And lets also not forget that this is the same collection of morons that essentially brought the wall down. If any of them had any smarts, the NK wouldn't have a dragon and the invasion would still be delayed because he'd have to find another way. Hell the NK should have 3 dragons really, guess he was just too lazy that day to throw another javelin at the other ones, especially the one that was stationary on the ground. NK is one lazy SOB, as he didn't bother to kill a crippled boy dragged by a girl either.

[Rose of Red Lake]

Okay, someone is getting aggressive when we just want to DISCUSS the leaks.

Notice how Sam hit Jon with a series of killowatt bombs all at once:

1. Dany burned Sam's father and brother

2. Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna 

3. Jon should be king, not Dany

I doubt Jon's first reply would be, "Oh my gosh Sam, forget all that other stuff, DANY IS THE ONE TRUE QUEEN!"

The scene probably ends because he's crying on the floor. 

[NonoNono]

14 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Except Cersei wouldn't send the GC anywhere near where those people we don't want to die are, if it wasn't for the collection of morons. From Dany to Tyrion to Jon. Thousands are going to die as the AotD swarms through the North. Thanks to the involvement with Dany, bending the knee and refusing to lie, Jon put a bulls eye on the North's back. So whoever survives the dead, many more will die in another war. All they had to do was ignore Cersei last Season, hell Dany could have killed Cersei in a single day. Fly directly to her window and dracarys. How is that so freaking hard? And lets also not forget that this is the same collection of morons that essentially brought the wall down. If any of them had any smarts, the NK wouldn't have a dragon and the invasion would still be delayed because he'd have to find another way. Hell the NK should have 3 dragons really, guess he was just too lazy that day to throw another javelin at the other ones, especially the one that was stationary on the ground. NK is one lazy SOB, as he didn't bother to kill a crippled boy dragged by a girl either.

Well to give the NK some credit, he did throw another one when they flew off but that one missed;)

[HallowedMarcus]

3 hours ago, Xemi said:

So show Jon is doing the exact same thing Robb did, thinking with his dick despite being warned to the contrary, can they make his character any more of a dumbass?

Who said so. He is thinking about the Wights that her Dragons can kill with Dragonfire. He knows Winterfell is lost without her Dagons. It seems that they will lose Winterfe even with her Dragons. Probably because o the Other Dragon that the NK has.

[TheSlayerofLies]

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

One could also ask why does Dany need them to bend the knee at all if politics don't matter any more. True heroes don't ask for prizes. Either she's playing politics or she's selfless. She could diffuse the situation by giving the North their independence like she did for Yara. Or listen to the wishes of who they want to rule them. If its not her, she should help anyway. Or she really is a tyrant. 

Nothing in the leaks states that Dany needs them to bend the knee.  The Northern lords are upset Jon bent the knee to her.  And lets not forget that Daenerys didn't ask for a "prize", she pledged to fight the NK no strings attached; Jon was the one who proceeded to bend the knee after that.  Jon is also the one who made the whole thing public, as it apparently shocked Tyrion and Davos at the Dragonpit.

 

Quote

Okay, someone is getting aggressive when we just want to DISCUSS the leaks.

Notice how Sam hit Jon with a series of killowatt bombs all at once:

1. Dany burned Sam's father and brother

2. Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna 

3. Jon should be king, not Dany

I doubt Jon's first reply would be, "Oh my gosh Sam, forget all that other stuff, DANY IS THE ONE TRUE QUEEN!"

The scene probably ends because he's crying on the floor. 

In fairness, according to the leaks, Jon's response to Dany burning Sam's father and brother is actually that Dany is the queen and that she's in charge lol.  Jon's response to the other stuff is mostly disbelief that Ned lied about his identity, to which Sam replies why he did it.

5 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

If Sam likes the idea of Jon as king better than Dany as queen like leaks imply, she's fucked. He's the moral dividing line. If you're rooting against him, audiences should reflect.

Seems you might be getting too ahead of yourself...  It makes sense for Same to like the idea of Jon as king, even if we were to completely disregard the Tarly incident, that's his best friend.  We should continue to see how the story unfolds; we know from the trailer that Sam apparently gives Jorah Heartsbane to wield against the AOTD