Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[Mystical]

20 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Can I laugh if there is one more wedding even before the Battle of Winterfell?

Jon and Day should have long been politically married already. It's like D&D decided they would only have them marry for love (like in our modern times) and screw the rules of the world the characters live in. Like they have done for Seasons really. All of S7 I was thinking, Dany goes on and on about allies...there is one right there....marry him already. It also solves the whole bending the knee business. That's why Dany left Daario behind, political marriage. And who else is she going to marry, Sweet Robin? Instead every advisor and Jon/Dany look utterly moronic for not even suggesting it. It would also look better to the Northerners if that had happened. Instead it looks exactly like Sansa says: you bend the knee for the good of the people or for sex (love)? And at least she is giving him the benefit of the doubt for making it a choice, can't imagine the Lords thinking anything but that he did for sex.

[Bear Claw]

 

8 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

because, well, I am going to tell you a few things. Because your mother is Lyanna Stark.”

No, I was saying that Jon doesn't react to the news he is Rhaegar's son and the true king. Someone said that Jon's reaction to the news he was Rhaegar's son and the true king was, "Dany is the queen. We need allies". We can see from your quote and mine, that he doesn't know he is the king yet when he makes those statements.  They are leaving his reaction to the news he is the true king for Ep. 2. ETA: I guess that wasn't what the user I was responding to said but from the prior conversation(s) (a quote he was responding to and the two posters prior remarks) it seemed to me that Jon's response to the Tarlys and his being the king was being confused.

[Rose of Red Lake]

Interestingly, the Pact of Ice and Fire could be satisfied by Jon marrying Dany or Sansa. It works both ways, but the politics have to work too. The Pact should bring the North and benefit the North somehow. A Jon/Dany marriage wont happen if Jon cant bring the North with him. Not only is he unwilling and unable to claim Winterfell, which is how he would claim the North for Dany, he cant bring the North with him if he gave it away so carelessly for love like Robb. His people wouldn't follow him. This seems to be why Sansa asks him about this in the leaks, is my guess?

If Jace and Sara did actually marry, Cregan would likely want their child to marry his child, which makes the Pact fulfilled through cousin marriage. Jace is a brown-haired half Targaryen like Jon, Sara is a daughter of Winterfell like Sansa. Jace rejected a Targaryen girl he was supposed to marry, and instead married a "wolf girl". This is suuuuuuper interesting.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

43 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Jon and Day should have long been politically married already. It's like D&D decided they would only have them marry for love (like in our modern times) and screw the rules of the world the characters live in. Like they have done for Seasons really. All of S7 I was thinking, Dany goes on and on about allies...there is one right there....marry him already. It also solves the whole bending the knee business. That's why Dany left Daario behind, political marriage. And who else is she going to marry, Sweet Robin? Instead every advisor and Jon/Dany look utterly moronic for not even suggesting it. It would also look better to the Northerners if that had happened. Instead it looks exactly like Sansa says: you bend the knee for the good of the people or for sex (love)? And at least she is giving him the benefit of the doubt for making it a choice, can't imagine the Lords thinking anything but that he did for sex.

I agree on the ridiculousness of that idea of political marriage all of the sudden not coming up once they are in Westeros.  It's almost like that was used to get rid of Daario, not as a true bit of personal and political consideration.  I'm not sure what would be funnier......Dany considering marriage to this Sweet Robin or the book version, LOL  

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

59 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Jon and Day should have long been politically married already. It's like D&D decided they would only have them marry for love (like in our modern times) and screw the rules of the world the characters live in. Like they have done for Seasons really. All of S7 I was thinking, Dany goes on and on about allies...there is one right there....marry him already. It also solves the whole bending the knee business. That's why Dany left Daario behind, political marriage. And who else is she going to marry, Sweet Robin? Instead every advisor and Jon/Dany look utterly moronic for not even suggesting it. It would also look better to the Northerners if that had happened. Instead it looks exactly like Sansa says: you bend the knee for the good of the people or for sex (love)? And at least she is giving him the benefit of the doubt for making it a choice, can't imagine the Lords thinking anything but that he did for sex.

Yes, exactly. I think in the books his bastard status is going to be much more of an obstacle for his ability to make alliances through marriage. In the show they're not really mentioning it. As a bastard he could be Dany's consort, and now that he's knelt he looks like another Daario. His status is weakened considerably. But, Jon hasn't married Dany yet. I think Jon's political decisions + marriage decision is crucial to the plot of the story. It's a rare instance of shippers arguing over something that actually matters, although they might not frame it that way. 

[NonoNono]

Royce would not agree to Jon marrying Sansa. He wants Robyn to marry her.

Since I think Winterfell loses the Vale's support before the NK arrives, I can see that happening. Robyn did destroy her snow castle.

But also, if Dany is pregnant, he won't want his child to grow up as a bastard, so I doubt Jon will marry Sansa. But then I think Robyn will butt in and try to marry her and get rejected as Sansa defends Tyrion and they'll lose the Vale anyway lol. Winterfell is doomed even without the NK.

[Mystical]

1 hour ago, NonoNono said:

Royce would not agree to Jon marrying Sansa. He wants Robyn to marry her.

Since I think Winterfell loses the Vale's support before the NK arrives, I can see that happening. Robyn did destroy her snow castle.

But also, if Dany is pregnant, he won't want his child to grow up as a bastard, so I doubt Jon will marry Sansa. But then I think Robyn will butt in and try to marry her and get rejected as Sansa defends Tyrion and they'll lose the Vale anyway lol. Winterfell is doomed even without the NK.

We've already seen the Vale army in the S8 trailer so no, the Vale won't be gone before the NK arrives. They are behind Brienne and Pod on the battlements. Where IMO Sansa, Jon etc. will loose the support of the Vale is after the fight with the NK is done. They have no interest in marching South for a Targ, especially a Targ looking to get the Iron Throne. And IMO that's their right, after all they are not part of Jon's Kingdom and they didn't swear fealty to him either. They were there for Sansa and neither Jon nor Dany are their King or Queen.

[Lollygag]

I don't think Sansa will get married to anyone unless she's forced to do so. 

She's still wearing the chain thing around her neck which means she still has Ramsay on her mind. She wants to be independent. Cersei is also wearing chain and we see her having to make a deal to sleep with Euron when she really, really doesn't want to calling back to her having to sleep with Robert. If Sansa stops wearing that chain, then I'll consider otherwise. 

Plus, the show is cramming in a lot of other romance this season. Looks like they'll be heavy with Jonerys, Missworm, Jaime + Brienne, Gendryra, and maybe a resolution for Jaime and Cersei. Jorah and Tyrion are still pining for Dany.  It's looking to be especially heavy in the romance department as is. 

[Mystical]

34 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Plus, the show is cramming in a lot of other romance this season. Looks like they'll be heavy with Jonerys, Missworm, Jaime + Brienne, Gendryra, and maybe a resolution for Jaime and Cersei. Jorah and Tyrion are still pining for Dany.  It's looking to be especially heavy in the romance department as is.

Which I'm not the least bit interested in. Only 6 episodes to go, finish the STORY and stop with the wheel spinning. All this romance is something that should be left to after the story is over. Meaning not on the show, the viewer can imagine what they want there. Show isn't based on a freaking romance novel, not to mention D&D can't do romance (see Jon/Dany).

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Mystical said:

not to mention D&D can't do romance (see Jon/Dany).

Or the amount of precious time dedicated to MissyWorm. Seriously. 

[Lollygag]

To me, Missworm looks set up to be a contrast to Jonerys. They got to know each other slowly over time, it was about understanding, acceptance, and they got a real love scene. Jonerys was about googly eyes, love at first sight crap, lust and a love scene overlayed with incest and Jon's dad Rhaegar looking just like the abusive and deranged Viserys, in case anyone missed how messed up it all is. They don't know each other. Dany kept her pyro tendencies (deal breaker!) from Jon which is a further contrast to the knowing and understanding they went out of their way to show with Missworm. Think that's the primary point of them in the story. 

I'm good with Jaime/Brienne and Gendryra as GRRM wrote them and there's much more interesting stuff there than just googly eyes and lust. Hopefully the actors can elevate the quality from what they'll likely be handed from D&D. 

 

[Mystical]

41 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Or the amount of precious time dedicated to MissyWorm. Seriously. 

Ok I admit, that is pretty much the only ship in the latest Seasons that I don't mind. It's largely because it's spread out over Seasons and never a big focus. They have a scene or two each Season but that's it. Their love scene in S7 was a bit too long but then that's the filler stuff and there was so much even in S7. But I rather have them on my screen than the complete lack of chemistry and facial expressions that is Jon/Dany.

Or as @Lollygag said. That I would co-sign.

 

[Leticia Stark]

You all remember the first round of the leaks, right? About Tyrion's trial and who were there.

There were Bran, Sansa, Arya, Davos, Greyworm and.... SweetRobyn!!!

Lol, It would be weird, but what If Sansa marries him? That would solidify the Vale support to the North.

[Leticia Stark]

4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Interestingly, the Pact of Ice and Fire could be satisfied by Jon marrying Dany or Sansa. It works both ways, but the politics have to work too. The Pact should bring the North and benefit the North somehow. A Jon/Dany marriage wont happen if Jon cant bring the North with him. Not only is he unwilling and unable to claim Winterfell, which is how he would claim the North for Dany, he cant bring the North with him if he gave it away so carelessly for love like Robb. His people wouldn't follow him. This seems to be why Sansa asks him about this in the leaks, is my guess?

If Jace and Sara did actually marry, Cregan would likely want their child to marry his child, which makes the Pact fulfilled through cousin marriage. Jace is a brown-haired half Targaryen like Jon, Sara is a daughter of Winterfell like Sansa. Jace rejected a Targaryen girl he was supposed to marry, and instead married a "wolf girl". This is suuuuuuper interesting.

If anything, this pact already got covered in the show when they showed to us Rhaegar and Lyanna marrying.

[kissdbyfire]

20 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

To me, Missworm looks set up to be a contrast to Jonerys. They got to know each other slowly over time, it was about understanding, acceptance, and they got a real love scene. Jonerys was about googly eyes, love at first sight crap, lust and a love scene overlayed with incest and Jon's dad Rhaegar looking just like the abusive and deranged Viserys, in case anyone missed how messed up it all is. They don't know each other. Dany kept her pyro tendencies (deal breaker!) from Jon which is a further contrast to the knowing and understanding they went out of their way to show with Missworm. Think that's the primary point of them in the story. 

I'm good with Jaime/Brienne and Gendryra as GRRM wrote them and there's much more interesting stuff there than just googly eyes and lust. Hopefully the actors can elevate the quality from what they'll likely be handed from D&D. 

 

I haven’t watched the last 2 series, so I suppose I missed most of the MissyWorm buddying romance. I agree w/ what you’re saying about Jon and Dany btw, even w/o having watched it. But I’m one of (very?) few people who really don’t like Jonerys. At all.

 

16 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Ok I admit, that is pretty much the only ship in the latest Seasons that I don't mind. It's largely because it's spread out over Seasons and never a big focus. They have a scene or two each Season but that's it. Their love scene in S7 was a bit too long but then that's the filler stuff and there was so much even in S7. But I rather have them on my screen than the complete lack of chemistry and facial expressions that is Jon/Dany.

Or as @Lollygag said. That I would co-sign.

 

My main objection to MissyWorm is time related. There’s no time to put in things that matter for the actual story, but for the faux romance that only makes sense creatively there is? And I get it, they have two good actors that they have to use and give screen time to, but I find their romance boring and nonsensical and just totally uninteresting.

[Rose of Red Lake]

17 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

If anything, this pact already got covered in the show when they showed to us Rhaegar and Lyanna marrying.

True. R/L could fulfill the pact with a Targ/Stark but their marriage didn't unite the kingdoms, which is what the Pact should have done. So it must be about how their son does it. I think politically, marrying Dany would be too divisive for his own men, especially after R+L=J. Sansa sounds like she's testing him to prove if he's loyal to the North with her question. I'd argue, Northern independence still matters and two Targaryens on the throne isn't going to cut it. 

[Leticia Stark]

6 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

True. R/L could fulfill the pact with a Targ/Stark but their marriage didn't unite the kingdoms, which is what the Pact should have done. So it must be about how their son does it. I think politically, marrying Dany would be too divisive for his own men, especially after R+L=J. Sansa sounds like she's testing him to prove if he's loyal to the North with her question. I'd argue, Northern independence still matters and two Targaryens on the throne isn't going to cut it. 

Yep, I think it's clear by now that Jon is the Son(g) of the Ice and Fire from the title.

And If there's a marriage at all, I don't think the J/D would be divisive mainly because Jon will never forget his roots, he is and always will be a northener, doesn't matter his new found family. He's a Stark in everything but name. 

 

 

 

[NonoNono]

Jon told Theon he's a Greyjoy and a Stark.

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

Jon told Theon he's a Greyjoy and a Stark.

And?

ETA: I know, Dany should marry Theon!

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

24 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Yep, I think it's clear by now that Jon is the Son(g) of the Ice and Fire from the title.

And If there's a marriage at all, I don't think the J/D would be divisive mainly because Jon will never forget his roots, he is and always will be a northener, doesn't matter his new found family. He's a Stark in everything but name. 

He'll be known as a Targaryen with a claim to the IT, not to Winterfell. This is one flaw in him fulfilling the "Stark" part of the Pact, because his Starkness will probably be questioned by his recent escapades with Dany. If he's flying dragons around, and in a relationship with Dany, and now has a Targaryen dad how does that prove he's a Stark in their minds? Omitting the gender which doesn't really matter, what the pact is about is really a Stark heir + Targaryen heir to unite the kingdoms. Jon is not a Stark heir. 

The North has to support him as King and approve of his marriage choice.

The rest of Westeros also has to approve. A good conflict for Jon would involve a political situation where he's forced to choose, the North or Dany. Sam's suggestion and Sansa's question makes for good drama.