Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[HouseLancaster]

14 hours ago, Mystical said:

Because Arya fans also tend to be Jon and/or Dany fans. And they all counted on Arya being with Jon 100000% no matter what he says/does. You know, like a good little mindless drone. Now Maisie said that Arya has a mind of her own and expresses her concerns, similar to Sansa, so everyone is going nuts.

The funniest part about that...a lot of them blame SANSA for Arya exercising free will and free speech. Anything to avoid hating Arya (their beloved girl) for having an opinion of her own instead of loving Jon's farts.

"mindless drone" "loving Jon's farts" - I don't think you need to worry this much.  

The vast majority of audiences ARE routing for Sansa, along with the other characters (particularity the Starks) to come good in the end. YES, I would concede someone like Arya is more popular but in reality I would argue this has nothing to do with anything she does with regards to the grander story, but more just her general personality/capacity for warmth etc. Look at how many turned on Bran since he became a monotone being, (nothing he does is right).  

As a character, Sansa has been unlucky in this respect since her story hasn't allowed her to form genuine bonds with other characters the way Jon, Tyrion, Dany and Arya have. To my mind, everyone likes it when she does make a connection/ trust/ show empathy for another character. It's a like a little flash of the Stark underneath.    

ALL the main 6 characters going into the final season have a personal battle between balancing the person they were at the start against the power hungry/dangerous/less human side of themselves they've since developed. Me: I hope for the best for all of them, and would particularly like to see the real Bran again. (I'm glad from that interview Maise has looked back at the sweet person Arya really was). 

The types of 'fans' I assume you're referring to are, relatively speaking, so small in number. Sansa has them too (I see many threads campaigning a romance for her - saying she'll end up with Jon or demanding she gets Gendry). Also, I would be so surprised if D&D don't have Sansa finish as the most powerful ruler in the North by stories end.

Anyway, I came on here to ask a spoiler question - with regards to the Dragons Pitt shoots/reports - does anyone have a collated list of the characters who didn't make it to those scenes? Thanks

 

[Mystical]

3 hours ago, HouseLancaster said:

The vast majority of audiences ARE routing for Sansa, along with the other characters (particularity the Starks) to come good in the end. YES, I would concede someone like Arya is more popular but in reality I would argue this has nothing to do with anything she does with regards to the grander story, but more just her general personality/capacity for warmth etc. Look at how many turned on Bran since he became a monotone being, (nothing he does is right).

Look ultimately I don't care about the show characters because the show isn't character driven so there is no use. It's just the double standards and hypocrisy in the fandom that annoys the ever living daylights out of me. Arya lost some popularity once she left Westeros (at least with some) because Bravoos was boring as hell. And then she went psycho on her own sister (except oops this was to fool us but I guess it fooled the characters too) after killing all the important males of a house, whether they were guilty or not and went straight up dismemberment to bae into pies. Girl is a psycho. And people still adore her and cheer her on, especially to kill her not in evidence hyper ambitious sister. But now that she dares to question a decision on Jon's part (most likely the Cersei part), everyone freaks and turns on her. Those who don't want to turn on her blame Sansa. It's bonkers because it's just a freaking tv show.

 

3 hours ago, HouseLancaster said:

As a character, Sansa has been unlucky in this respect since her story hasn't allowed her to form genuine bonds with other characters the way Jon, Tyrion, Dany and Arya have. To my mind, everyone likes it when she does make a connection/ trust/ show empathy for another character. It's a like a little flash of the Stark underneath.

Blame D&D for never understanding Sansa. She's not violent or a sex pot so she is useless to D&D. And not only that but for taking each one of her connections away from her, LitteFinger excluded. Sandor and Dontos are non entities in her life in the show. Jeyne was cut. And of course her entire Vale arc was sacrificed for Ramsey's penis/knifes/whips and whatever else he used on her. Even the whole thing with Shae and Tyrion was never about Sansa (and that includes the wedding where an underage prisoner is forced into a marriage), it was about Shae and Tyrion. Show Sansa has no connections to anyone because D&D took it all away from her. They want her constantly isolated for reasons I can't fathom.

I hope GRRM finishes at least one more book and then give it maybe 20 years or less for some competent writers, producers, showrunners etc. who actually understand the books to reboot and adapt the actual book story.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Brienne the Beauty, great book character.

Brienne the Brute, show character that shares the same first name w/ its book counterpart and nothing else. 

Exactly!!  Can you imagine Brienne the Brute being sent to help slaughter piglets to help her cope with the idea of killing one day?  Brienne the Brute would take issue with The Beauty's tears and say something along the lines of:  she's acting like a bloody woman. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Those ideas I had for Harry Strickland and his Bag Full O' Faces to match Arya's Fistful O' Faces, maybe subconsciously they came from this?  I don't think so, I only found this today. 

https://twitter.com/ThePixelFactor/status/1110581149456310272

This above pic is much creepier than anything I had in mind, though. 

[HouseLancaster]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Look ultimately I don't care about the show characters because the show isn't character driven so there is no use. It's just the double standards and hypocrisy in the fandom that annoys the ever living daylights out of me. Arya lost some popularity once she left Westeros (at least with some) because Bravoos was boring as hell. And then she went psycho on her own sister (except oops this was to fool us but I guess it fooled the characters too) after killing all the important males of a house, whether they were guilty or not and went straight up dismemberment to bae into pies. Girl is a psycho. And people still adore her and cheer her on, especially to kill her not in evidence hyper ambitious sister. But now that she dares to question a decision on Jon's part (most likely the Cersei part), everyone freaks and turns on her. Those who don't want to turn on her blame Sansa. It's bonkers because it's just a freaking tv show.

 

Blame D&D for never understanding Sansa. She's not violent or a sex pot so she is useless to D&D. And not only that but for taking each one of her connections away from her, LitteFinger excluded. Sandor and Dontos are non entities in her life in the show. Jeyne was cut. And of course her entire Vale arc was sacrificed for Ramsey's penis/knifes/whips and whatever else he used on her. Even the whole thing with Shae and Tyrion was never about Sansa (and that includes the wedding where an underage prisoner is forced into a marriage), it was about Shae and Tyrion. Show Sansa has no connections to anyone because D&D took it all away from her. They want her constantly isolated for reasons I can't fathom.

I hope GRRM finishes at least one more book and then give it maybe 20 years or less for some competent writers, producers, showrunners etc. who actually understand the books to reboot and adapt the actual book story.

The issue of the bad writing, we shouldn't get into - the s7 Little Finger/Arya/Sansa storyline (along with anything that happened in ep6) was the worst written, poorly conceived story in all of GOT for me. False jeopardy - I hate it. Neither characters came away looking good. I could bitch about it for hours but I've moved on. 

Its a shame Jeyne wasn't kept on as a side character, but I probably would have cut Dontos to be fair. I personally would have liked Sansa to have had killed Little Finger at the Vale somehow, then go on to conquer the Riverlands (which is where I thought the book was going). 

In the guise of a TV of a show, and with this story being adapted - for me, it's fine for people to cheer on Arya wiping out the Freys and to label the moment under the column 'bad-ass' as people probably did. It's an easy way to convey how strong she's become and to show the Freys getting wiped out (as they are, very slowly, in the books anyway). It's nothing too weird. 

I don't know of anyone wanting Arya to kill Sansa - that is deffo not a general feeling! As I said before, these sort of comments are from a tiny number of fanatical obsessive people and not worth you getting irritated by. Not at all. 

Tyrion aside, all the main characters have had positive elements/narratives ...things taken away from them that've annoyed book readers a long way. And also... look at how dumb Jon looked in Battle of the Bastards so that D&D could have Sansa save the day. It's their 'TV writing' and it has become more prominent as the show has gone on. 

In the latter seasons of Thrones - the directing/production value and stunt teams have propped up the writing (normally in TV it's the other way round) let's hope they and Martin's end game can deliver a season to go out on a high. 

 

 

 

 

[Mystical]

1 hour ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Those ideas I had for Harry Strickland and his Bag Full O' Faces to match Arya's Fistful O' Faces, maybe subconsciously they came from this?  I don't think so, I only found this today. 

https://twitter.com/ThePixelFactor/status/1110581149456310272

This above pic is much creepier than anything I had in mind, though. 

It's seriously freaking me out how good he looks with that hair, especially the color. Actually he reminds me of V from V for Vendetta.

47 minutes ago, HouseLancaster said:

In the guise of a TV of a show, and with this story being adapted - for me, it's fine for people to cheer on Arya wiping out the Freys and to label the moment under the column 'bad-ass' as people probably did. It's an easy way to convey how strong she's become and to show the Freys getting wiped out (as they are, very slowly, in the books anyway). It's nothing too weird. 

But it's not bad ass. It's sexist and psycho. She only killed men, as if Cersei, Brienne, Sansa, Arya, Osha, Ellaria/Snakes, Asha and Dany haven't shown that women are perfectly capable of killing. How does she know only male Freys participated in the Red Wedding? Or none of the male Freys were sick/injured and couldn't participate or they were against it and didn't show up but they died anyway? The whole point of Arya coming across Lannister soldiers after killing the Freys without establishing guilt was to show that people don't have a choice (a lesson Arya should have learned ages ago via her own example), those soldiers would rather be at home with their families than fighting in a war for some rich, highborn people. That scene makes no sense and is pointless if we are just supposed to cheer Arya on with her Hannibal Lector act.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

24 minutes ago, Mystical said:

It's seriously freaking me out how good he looks with that hair, especially the color. Actually he reminds me of V from V for Vendetta.

 

At first I thought it was the bangs across his face, making the picture 'work.'  But, it is the entirety of it.  Proportionally, LF's face is a perfect fit.  And, yes, it's a bit creepy, LOL

[BalerionTheCat]

On 3/24/2019 at 2:20 PM, Lady Fevre Dream said:

All of this.............The North will not, won't want to, bow down to a Targ and her dragons.....leads me to feel it's time for some reminders.

First off, how did the North wind up in the Seven Kingdoms?  The King Who Knelt...........after taking one look at the dragons and what they had done.  Why?  Because Torrhen Stark didn't see the sense in getting a ton of Northerners killed and then still..........being ruled by the Targs.  He took stock of The Field of Fire, what happened at Harrenhal, thought on it a night and became:  The King Who Knelt.  Wisely. 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:The_King_who_kneltChaseStone.png

Exactly. Daenerys, may call herself the "rightful" queen. But the Targaryens have no rightness to rule the North.

When Torrhen Stark knelt, he did what a king has to do: "protect his people". He swallowed his pride and knelt. He was then more a king than any Targaryens ever were. Exactly the opposite of Aegon. Full of pride and ready to kill everyone, his people he pretended.

How would you call a man coming into your house and threatening to kill everyone if you don't give him all you have? A thief, a murderer.

[HouseLancaster]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

It's seriously freaking me out how good he looks with that hair, especially the color. Actually he reminds me of V from V for Vendetta.

But it's not bad ass. It's sexist and psycho. She only killed men, as if Cersei, Brienne, Sansa, Arya, Osha, Ellaria/Snakes, Asha and Dany haven't shown that women are perfectly capable of killing. How does she know only male Freys participated in the Red Wedding? Or none of the male Freys were sick/injured and couldn't participate or they were against it and didn't show up but they died anyway? The whole point of Arya coming across Lannister soldiers after killing the Freys without establishing guilt was to show that people don't have a choice (a lesson Arya should have learned ages ago via her own example), those soldiers would rather be at home with their families than fighting in a war for some rich, highborn people. That scene makes no sense and is pointless if we are just supposed to cheer Arya on with her Hannibal Lector act.

But we are though! It was a cold open gimmick in an attempt to open the season with a bang. And the amount of content that D&D have happen off screen I'm perfectly happy to assume Arya spent a few days there, found out who the Frey conspirators were, how the women were treated bla bla. We don't KNOW she didn't pin point every person she poisoned so again, happy to assume she did. Plus collateral damage has never been a problem before in Westros, so bit harsh to pull Arya up on it now. And whilst I'm thinking about it, many lovable characters, especially men (the Hound, Tormund, Darrio...) take great pleasure in killing without being labelled a psycho. We've all seen what Arya has gone through - let's hope her humanity wins out in the end  

Anyway spoilers...

It seems characters who made it to the final eps:

Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Bran Stark, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Davos Seaworth, Varys, Grey Worm, Yara Greyjoy, Sam Tarly, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Brienne of Tarth, Gendry AND Robin Arryn!! 

Those that didn't 

Qyburn, the Mountain, the Hound, Melisandre, Euron Greyjoy - and I'm assuming Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Bronn, Podrick Payne, Tormund Giantsbane, Beric Dondarrion, Gilly, Theon Greyjoy don't survive Winterfell

  

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, HouseLancaster said:

It seems characters who made it to the final eps:

Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Bran Stark, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Davos Seaworth, Varys, Grey Worm, Yara Greyjoy, Sam Tarly, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Brienne of Tarth, Gendry AND Robin Arryn!! 

Those that didn't 

Qyburn, the Mountain, the Hound, Melisandre, Euron Greyjoy - and I'm assuming Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Bronn, Podrick Payne, Tormund Giantsbane, Beric Dondarrion, Gilly, Theon Greyjoy don't survive Winterfell

 

Where is this from?

[HouseLancaster]

10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Where is this from?

I went through the actor sightings at one the Thrones sites - obviously it's not rock solid proof, but seems like the best we've got to go on.

[HouseLancaster]

Just now, HouseLancaster said:

I went through the actor sightings at one the Thrones sites - obviously it's not rock solid proof, but seems like the best we've got to go on.

The list does kinda ring true to me though - I'd expect Yara to make it but not Theon, for instance.

 

[T and A]

6 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Exactly!!  Can you imagine Brienne the Brute being sent to help slaughter piglets to help her cope with the idea of killing one day?  Brienne the Brute would take issue with The Beauty's tears and say something along the lines of:  she's acting like a bloody woman. 

Briene is a bad character in both formats: The book and the show. You can say a lot of things about her, one-dimemsional and stereotypical are the first that come to my mind. But most importantly: my god is she boring! Reading through her chapters in Feast were pure torture. The only thing that speaks for the show were the visualisation of her fighting skills, because action sequences are more impressive when they are visualied then on a page. But that is the only redeaming point for this character. For me, she is the Jar Jar Bings of GoT/ASOIAF.

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, T and A said:

Briene is a bad character in both formats: The book and the show. You can say a lot of things about her, one-dimemsional and stereotypical are the first that come to my mind. But most importantly: my god is she boring! Reading through her chapters in Feast were pure torture. The only thing that speaks for the show were the visualisation of her fighting skills, because action sequences are more impressive when they are visualied then on a page. But that is the only redeaming point for this character. For me, she is the Jar Jar Bings of GoT/ASOIAF.

I'll give you that. She is not the most interesting character in both the books or the series, but in books, at least, her chapters are filled with something. Whether it is Septon Meribald, or Jaime's redemption, there is at least something. On TV show, there is nothing. Even conclusion of her revenge against Stannis felt flat due to the fact that we simply didn't care anymore (about either of them, or Renly, as for that matter).

They got the looks, they got the actress who seems to be rather enthusiastic about her role and somehow it all feels meh. Even her encounters with Jaime in Season 6 and 7 lost their touch (I will NEVER forget the fact that she TRIED to return Oathkeeper to Jaime, while serving Sansa, being fully aware where the sword came from.)

*****

As for Daenerys and Northern lords/Sansa, I wish they are able of having two main characters be together and not making one complete and utter idiot. I fully understand both points of view and I understand the time constraints and need to resolve it ASAP. But, I feel as if they are simply not doing any justice to a very interesting "conflict" and giving it a proper conclusion before NK arrives.

[T and A]

3 minutes ago, Risto said:

I'll give you that. She is not the most interesting character in both the books or the series, but in books, at least, her chapters are filled with something. Whether it is Septon Meribald, or Jaime's redemption, there is at least something. On TV show, there is nothing. Even conclusion of her revenge against Stannis felt flat due to the fact that we simply didn't care anymore (about either of them, or Renly, as for that matter).

They got the looks, they got the actress who seems to be rather enthusiastic about her role and somehow it all feels meh. Even her encounters with Jaime in Season 6 and 7 lost their touch (I will NEVER forget the fact that she TRIED to return Oathkeeper to Jaime, while serving Sansa, being fully aware where the sword came from.)

 

Even in the books, the other characters she meets or has conversations with makes the story interesting. She is at best an exposition tool. She is just there as an empty, unfinished POV. Kind of like the random avatar in an online game, you have yet to costumize, to give that character personality and a story. 

And her motives don't even make sence. She should be the prototype of a rightful knight, fighting for justice, yet somehow rooting for Renly was her way to go. Even after his death, she kills Stanis for it. And oh I forgot about Oathkeeper. Maybe it is because of the actress, or maybe because on the show you don't spend hours with this awefull character, but Book Briene is more anoying for me. 

[NonoNono]

I don't see Dany and Sansa hating each other, I think the issue will come from Sansa having to keep hold of the North who want nothing to do with Dany. There's a limit to what Sansa can do, and she won't allow the Starks losing the north for Dany's own sake. When Jon came to Dany, she didn't care about the White Walkers, Jon had to bend the knee under the circumstances he was in. Jon now has to drop the King in the North title, and let Sansa refuse to bend the knew, and Dany has to accept it, otherwise all it will take is a wanna-be hero to attack Dany in front of her dragons, and then the place goes up in flames.

[Lollygag]

28 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

I don't see Dany and Sansa hating each other, I think the issue will come from Sansa having to keep hold of the North who want nothing to do with Dany. There's a limit to what Sansa can do, and she won't allow the Starks losing the north for Dany's own sake. When Jon came to Dany, she didn't care about the White Walkers, Jon had to bend the knee under the circumstances he was in. Jon now has to drop the King in the North title, and let Sansa refuse to bend the knew, and Dany has to accept it, otherwise all it will take is a wanna-be hero to attack Dany in front of her dragons, and then the place goes up in flames.

It doesn't look like Dany and Sansa will have problems for long. Just the usual soap opera/Mean Girls filler stuff that gets an extremely lazy resolution so D&D don't have to actually have to put any effort into writing. Sansa copies those she admires (Cersei very, very early on, and later Catelyn) in her hair and clothes and she does this with Dany. Sansa is seen with her hair heavily braided like Dany's . Dany is introduced with an ascot (really??? an ascot????), and then we see Sansa with an ascot that she wasn't wearing in the scene where she first sees the dragons fly overhead. 

Captain Idiot did not need to bend the knee. Dany already swore to see the NK destroyed. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/a4fk6j/jon_bends_knee_in_part_due_to_the_emotion_of_the/

 

[NonoNono]

1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

It doesn't look like Dany and Sansa will have problems for long. Just the usual soap opera/Mean Girls filler stuff that gets an extremely lazy resolution so D&D don't have to actually have to put any effort into writing. Sansa copies those she admires (Cersei very, very early on, and later Catelyn) in her hair and clothes and she does this with Dany. Sansa is seen with her hair heavily braided like Dany's . Dany is introduced with an ascot (really??? an ascot????), and then we see Sansa with an ascot that she wasn't wearing in the scene where she first sees the dragons fly overhead. 

Captain Idiot did not need to bend the knee. Dany already swore to see the NK destroyed. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/a4fk6j/jon_bends_knee_in_part_due_to_the_emotion_of_the/

 

In the trailer, if Bran is speaking to Dany, there is two dangerous outcomes:

1: It confirms that Dany won’t take the Iron Throne, her home is foreseen as being Winterfell. This could make Dany think she is on the wrong path and must bail out, and if she isn’t welcomed it could contribute to that. If she leaves out in anger I can imagine her heading to the Iron Islands where she would think Euron is, and he might not be there at first but if things don’t work out with Cersei and hears a dragon is hanging out back home... which could possibly bring the show closer to the books since I think even in the books there is a chance he might woo her, especially to beat Aegon. Salt and smoke? Also in the books she is called the destroyer of lies, which can hint at her ability to destroy fate/cancel the predetermined future (or at least make her think so).

2: It could freak out Sansa because there is no way Winterfell would be Dany’s home without Jon and Dany ruling it. Which can lead Sansa to take some drastic action.

[Mystical]

3 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Sansa is seen with her hair heavily braided like Dany's

Why do people keep saying that? It's the same style she had in S7 and no one was falling over themselves and screamed 'look, it's like Dany's hair'. Her style is Northern and actually looks similar to Lyanna's.

As to what people are wearing, I've long stopped paying attention to it. Clapton's explanations for why she does what she does have never made much sense.

[Lollygag]

Just now, Mystical said:

Why do people keep saying that? It's the same style she had in S7 and no one was falling over themselves and screamed 'look, it's like Dany's hair'. Her style is Northern and actually looks similar to Lyanna's.

As to what people are wearing, I've long stopped paying attention to it. Clapton's explanations for why she does what she does have never made much sense.

0:22 is why people keep saying it. It's very different than the much simpler style she wears in season 7. If I'm overlooking something, I'll be happy to be proven otherwise. And there's still the ascot (ughh). It's consistent with Sansa looking those she admires which has been her thing the whole time. 

Clapton's been both a hit (chains on Cersei and Sansa) and a miss (Romulan thing) with her costumes. Dany starts wearing more fur as she becomes more focused on the North. Emilia said her Thundercats coat being changed from black under the slashes to red under the slashes are a commentary as to Dany's endgame. I can't think of anything good about that. Can't unsee the Mountain as Dumb Donald from Fat Albert.