Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[HouseLancaster]

37 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Well, Arya Gendry as a possible temporary "thing" might still be possible,, but I am grasping at straws here, I will admit. But if you try to piece together a plotline that makes sense, based on what we know and what we think we know, you have to get from point A to point B. 

I think the Gendry/Arya scene was significant. 

I also think the foreshadowing of Dany becoming pregnant was VERY significant. Replace Dragos image with Jons in the visions she had at the temple of the undying. 

And what we have come to expect with the leaks in regards to the Dragonpit scene. In which Jon and Dany appear to have both been absent. Are they both dead? or is there another reason? Maybe Dany is giving birth? 

is this scene a trial?

Or is it an election? Not unlike the scene in which Jon was elected Lord Commander of the NW, and foreshadowed my Gendry in the video I posted earlier, in which a leader that was chosen has more significance than a leader that assumed power by birthright. 

It was a fair few years ago I considered Gendry a possibility, based on the idea of been 'chosen' as you said. This is more regarding the books than anything, I thought perhaps he might lead the brotherhood, and grow them into a force protecting the small folk etc. But the TV show has pretty much since eliminated the BWB from the game. I used to also think Robert over throwing the Targs was a good thing, and Gendry (who also has the lost prince angle that Jon and Dany do) might be a way of resetting Westeros back to that. But its hard to deny ASOIAF is looking like a full steam ahead Targarean story. I'm not even sure if Jon or Dany ruling is the most sensible/reassuring thing but it seems to be the way.  

Do people still debate/care about the Prince Who Was Promised angle or think it will be of significance this season?  

[NonoNono]

5 minutes ago, HouseLancaster said:

It was a fair few years ago I considered Gendry a possibility, based on the idea of been 'chosen' as you said. This is more regarding the books than anything, I thought perhaps he might lead the brotherhood, and grow them into a force protecting the small folk etc. But the TV show has pretty much since eliminated the BWB from the game. I used to also think Robert over throwing the Targs was a good thing, and Gendry (who also has the lost prince angle that Jon and Dany do) might be a way of resetting Westeros back to that. But its hard to deny ASOIAF is looking like a full steam ahead Targarean story. I'm not even sure if Jon or Dany ruling is the most sensible/reassuring thing but it seems to be the way.  

Do people still debate/care about the Prince Who Was Promised angle or think it will be of significance this season?  

I think what will be significant is what why was the prince "promised", how is Jon a "prince", and why his song is the "song of ice and fire". There is more to it than just being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, I think.

[BalerionTheCat]

37 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

I think what will be significant is what why was the prince "promised", how is Jon a "prince", and why his song is the "song of ice and fire". There is more to it than just being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, I think.

Yes of course... And one thing IMHO.

ASOIAF and its companion books are full of one thing: Who has the best claim and fighting for asserting it SUCKS. The Free Folk have the right of it: No matter who is son of whom, they chose for king the man who they believe their lives will be better with.

[Xemi]

1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes of course... And one thing IMHO.

ASOIAF and its companion books are full of one thing: Who has the best claim and fighting for asserting it SUCKS. The Free Folk have the right of it: No matter who is son of whom, they chose for king the man who they believe their lives will be better with.

That's why they'll chose Jon, since he's gonna save all their asses. He'll have right by both blood and popular aclaim.

[Rose of Red Lake]

I dont think Jon is going to be the big awesome savior, I mean...he cares about the North and all but his grab-a-nuke-and-hope-it-works-out-strategy is a set up for a disaster. What's the message if his strategy succeeds? Nuclear weapons are terrific? 

I think he'll be king but it won't be because he saved everyone, it will be because he keeps TRYING to do it.

[Xemi]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I dont think Jon is going to be the big awesome savior, I mean...he cares about the North and all but his grab-a-nuke-and-hope-it-works-out-strategy is a set up for a disaster. What's the message if his strategy succeeds? Nuclear weapons are terrific? 

I think he'll be king but it won't be because he saved everyone, it will be because he keeps TRYING to do it.

Jon is killing the NK, there are no ifs or buts about it.

[Rose of Red Lake]

7 minutes ago, Xemi said:

Jon is killing the NK, there are no ifs or buts about it.

Well, there is a "but" - mine.

Aragorn didn't kill Sauron. He was the general who distracted his armies so Frodo/last hero could make a win. Its more likely be a group effort. There's no prophecy twist otherwise. 

[HouseLancaster]

4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I dont think Jon is going to be the big awesome savior, I mean...he cares about the North and all but his grab-a-nuke-and-hope-it-works-out-strategy is a set up for a disaster. What's the message if his strategy succeeds? Nuclear weapons are terrific? 

I think he'll be king but it won't be because he saved everyone, it will be because he keeps TRYING to do it.

I don't think the message says anything about nukes. If anything Jon's legacy will be about doing things together and building bridges with enemies, and developing trust with honesty. Soppy but if you're going to attribute anything to Jon is has to be that.

[HouseLancaster]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Well, there is a "but" - mine.

Aragorn didn't kill Sauron. He was the general who distracted his armies so Frodo/last hero could make a win. Its more likely be a group effort. There's no prophecy twist otherwise. 

Not sure it will be Jon either

[Xemi]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Well, there is a "but" - mine.

Aragorn didn't kill Sauron. He was the general who distracted his armies so Frodo/last hero could make a win. Its more likely be a group effort. There's no prophecy twist otherwise. 

Destroying the ring destroys Sauron's power, and Sauron didn't have a physical form in the movies anyway, he was that eye in the tower.

On the other hand we've been told outright that killing the NK kills every wight in his army, so, yeah... The NK has to be dealt with and Jon is obviously the one who'll do it.

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 minute ago, HouseLancaster said:

I don't think the message says anything about nukes. If anything Jon's legacy will be about doing things together and building bridges with enemies, and developing trust with honesty. Soppy but if you're going to attribute anything to Jon is has to be that.

I'm not ignoring the author's own statements about dragons as nuclear weapons. 

 

[21st Century Moose]

2 hours ago, Error-504 said:

People forget the evolution of Dany. She at first never wanted to be Queen, or a ruler, or anything like that. She just wanted to go home. 

 

Later she was committed to not being ruler, but to giving birth to a ruler, the stallion that shall mount the world. Her objectives later changed only when she lost what she thought was that child, and faced with the very real possibility that she could never give birth again. Upon discovery of the fact she is in fact pregnant, it is not inconceivable her objectives change once again, with her being perfectly fine with not being ruler of Westeros, but in caring for and raising the child that will be.    

The thing is though that Dany is an absolutely dreadful ruler.

What she’s good at

She comes in, makes a big dramatic gesture, kills the Masters, frees the slaves, overthrows the old regime and puts things to right. Everyone loves her.

What she’s bad at

Knuckling down and getting on with the business of actually running her conquered realm.

The evidence

Look at what happened in Meereen. She was supposed to use that to learn how to rule; look at what happened instead. Open rebellion, riots, killing in the streets, invasion and war, people being fed to dragons, and when it all gets too much she ups and leaves, then comes back with a bigger force and conquers it again, creating an even bigger mess.

What this means for Westeros

Dany might well defeat Cersei and the WWs, but if she ends up on the Throne she will not be able to rule it. It will be a disaster.  So why are otherwise smart people following her? Sure, some did so for baser motives – petty revenge, spite, there’s nowhere else to go, and so on. But why are Tyrion and Varys following her? They’re not dumb. They have to be able to see that she’d make a useless ruler. Unless that’s what they want? Install a useless, weak ruler and manipulate her from behind the scenes? Or let her do the heavy work of conquering, then get rid of her and put someone else in?

Whatever way it goes, there's some twists and turns definitely left in that storyline.  But Dany ending up on the IT and ruling Westeros is not the happy ending; that's something we can be confident of.

[Xemi]

6 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm not ignoring the author's own statements about dragons as nuclear weapons. 

 

So Jon's plans of using dragons to defeat the White Walkers, which has been the plan of every book reader since dragons and white walkers were introduced, is a recipe for disaster, I see...

Please enlighten me on what the correct plan to defeat the White Walkers is, without using dragons of course.

[HouseLancaster]

5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm not ignoring the author's own statements about dragons as nuclear weapons. 

 

So that's it - are you ignoring everything else that's happened? Most people won't be aware of what the author has said and so won't take that message away.

Plus in that case, the fairly pin point attacks of the dragon fire has been seriously mis-represented. The closest thing we've seen to nukes are the two wildfire explosions 

 

 

[HouseLancaster]

4 minutes ago, Xemi said:

So Jon's plans of using dragons to defeat the White Walkers, which has been the plan of every book reader since dragons and white walkers were introduced, is a recipe for disaster, I see...

Please enlighten me on what the correct plan to defeat the White Walkers is, without using dragons of course.

Thanks - I was struggling with this myself

[Bradam]

I think "nukes" mean more sure it'll get something done (i.e. kill alot'a wights) but then one died and now the Night King has one.  Big oopsie there.  Sure you can burn kings landing to the ground and be queen of the ashes.. but now you just killed everyone you wanted to rule.

[Bradam]

6 minutes ago, Xemi said:

So Jon's plans of using dragons to defeat the White Walkers, which has been the plan of every book reader since dragons and white walkers were introduced, is a recipe for disaster, I see...

Please enlighten me on what the correct plan to defeat the White Walkers is, without using dragons of course. 

I think Jon's total plan at this point is "stick them with the pointy end.. oh and use pointy dragonglass"

[Rose of Red Lake]

11 minutes ago, HouseLancaster said:

So that's it - are you ignoring everything else that's happened? Most people won't be aware of what the author has said and so won't take that message away.

Plus in that case, the fairly pin point attacks of the dragon fire has been seriously mis-represented. The closest thing we've seen to nukes are the two wildfire explosions 

GRRM: Dragons are nuclear weapons and only Dany has them.

Aerys tried to make up for the loss of dragons by hoarding wildfire. Whether fire from above or below it really makes no difference, its WMD, and that's not going to be shown to be effective because of the author's stance on nukes, in which he is classically scifi in its critique about their potential to destroy humanity.

I do think average GA viewers will be able to understand that dragons are stand-ins for air-dropped nuclear weapons when they see them destroying people en masse and melting castles in like 5 seconds. People have a Dany-level romantic attachment to them which I find disgusting.

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

15 minutes ago, Bradam said:

I think "nukes" mean more sure it'll get something done (i.e. kill alot'a wights) but then one died and now the Night King has one.  Big oopsie there.  Sure you can burn kings landing to the ground and be queen of the ashes.. but now you just killed everyone you wanted to rule.

Exactly, you'll try to use them and they'll be a major fuck-up along the way to show the dangers. Ect, ect. for S8. That's all I'm saying.

[Mystical]

To me one of the things that must happen is for magic to die out. It has to. Which means no more resurrections, no more White Walkers, no more green-seeing/warging and no more dragons. Let humans be humans and figure it out. In the books even more so than in the show, the reason why so much crap happened is because of magic. Whether that's prophecies or weapons of mass destruction. Both the White Walkers and the dragons are the latter. Or even the wildfire. Rhegar was totally obsessed with prophecies (though I don't think that's made clear in the show) and thousands died for it. Cersei has lived her life trying to stop prophecies related to her from happening but all it accomplished was that it lead to the very things she was told and she screwed over a hell of a lot of people because of it. The Children created the WW and seemingly lost control of them. Just let the natural world happen.

Humans are pretty terrible on their own but let them figure it out by themselves.