Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[Error-504]

On 4/4/2019 at 8:53 PM, kissdbyfire said:

300 years of peace and prosperity? I must have read different books...

I should have clarified a little better, I was referring strictly to the North, that stayed out of the majority of the southern conflicts for those 300 years. 

[T and A]

2 hours ago, HouseLancaster said:

Agreed. There are three ideas I just can't see happening 

1) Jon marrying Sansa

2) The North at a full on civil war before the NK arrives

3) The GC leader being the fake Aegon and introducing an entirely new story line 

They've been building up the White Walkers for 8 years. Story wise would you not pay that off by the North giving them their best effort and STILL failing? If there's a full on revolt and the Walkers just come up behind everyone would look dumb, you'd think they'd have a chance otherwise, and you're robbing the WW of their power/threat. Plus the trailer - they're standing together; this doesn't seem like miss-direction.

 

We do not know for sure about Number 1, but number 2 and 3 are completely impossible. We have six episodes left and the big battle against the WW happens in episode 3. From the leaks we know episode 1 will be about reuniting. So you would have episode 2 for that civil war. Lets say they spend half of the episode on that matter, you would have 30 minutes for this civil war. Hell even a whole episode on this matter makes no sense.

Regarding fAegon, you have six episodes to tell the people who he is. But wait, they have already included a new Aegon Targaryen in the last episode of season 7. Now lets tell the story of the second secret Aegon. Great storytelling. 

[HouseLancaster]

57 minutes ago, T and A said:

We do not know for sure about Number 1, but number 2 and 3 are completely impossible. We have six episodes left and the big battle against the WW happens in episode 3. From the leaks we know episode 1 will be about reuniting. So you would have episode 2 for that civil war. Lets say they spend half of the episode on that matter, you would have 30 minutes for this civil war. Hell even a whole episode on this matter makes no sense.

Regarding fAegon, you have six episodes to tell the people who he is. But wait, they have already included a new Aegon Targaryen in the last episode of season 7. Now lets tell the story of the second secret Aegon. Great storytelling. 

I agree. But I would say we can be pretty sure about point number 1. If only for similar storytelling reasons you've mentioned. 

They spent all season 7 forcing the Jon and Daenery's coupling - they're not suddenly at the last minute going to go 'but Jon will now marry Sansa'. Whether political or romantic (not going to get into the dumbness of either) audiences couldn't stomach a Stark brother/sister relationship without significant build up - bad storytelling!! 

And just because the Targaryens did, and Jamie and Cersi did (the villains!) and now Jon and Dany (without knowing) - incest is generally not considered a positive in Westeros or among audiences. Something people tend to over look when pushing this agenda.  

 

  

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

2 hours ago, HouseLancaster said:

I agree. But I would say we can be pretty sure about point number 1. If only for similar storytelling reasons you've mentioned. 

They spent all season 7 forcing the Jon and Daenery's coupling - they're not suddenly at the last minute going to go 'but Jon will now marry Sansa'. Whether political or romantic (not going to get into the dumbness of either) audiences couldn't stomach a Stark brother/sister relationship without significant build up - bad storytelling!! 

And just because the Targaryens did, and Jamie and Cersi did (the villains!) and now Jon and Dany (without knowing) - incest is generally not considered a positive in Westeros or among audiences. Something people tend to over look when pushing this agenda.  

 

  

 

I dont think the author really cares about making it acceptable to audiences when he had originally planned for Jon and Arya to fall in love, even as siblings. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

"I think one thing people are in danger of forgetting is that Samwell's got a really manipulative side to him..."

*reporter does a double take*

This interview with John Bradley fits right in with my Sam-overthrows-Dany theory

[HouseLancaster]

28 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I dont think the author really cares about making it acceptable to audiences when he had originally planned for Jon and Arya to fall in love, even as siblings. 

Yes, a triangle that was supposed to be the main focus of his 'trilogy' and a story he would have spent a lot of time on (as would the TV series) had he gone through with it.

The point still stands - they're not just going to suddenly pair two hero siblings together. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

1 minute ago, HouseLancaster said:

Yes, a triangle that was supposed to be the main focus of his 'trilogy' and a story he would have spent a lot of time on (as would the TV series) had he gone through with it.

The point still stands - they're not just going to suddenly pair two hero siblings together and that be normal and fine. 

The original parentage reveal made Jon x sibling less related and with Jon x Dany it makes them more. I think the GA will understand the idea of less related than twincest or auntcest. But also, GRRM obviously doesnt care if people are shocked when he has a whole dynasty involving siblings marrying siblings. It just sounds like you, personally, are grossed out. 

[Lollygag]

5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

"I think one thing people are in danger of forgetting is that Samwell's got a really manipulative side to him..."

*reporter does a double take*

This interview with John Bradley fits right in with my Sam-overthrows-Dany theory

I thought this was a spot-on observation of Sam, both book and show. He's a book reader and corrected D&D about Sam being a POV once. Sam's a nice guy, but even the likes of Randyll, Jeor, Jon, Craster, and the Maesters couldn't get him to follow the rules. Total chaotic good. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

3 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Total chaotic good. 

Oooh yes I like that alignment for him.

[HouseLancaster]

2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

The original parentage reveal made Jon x sibling less related and with Jon x Dany it makes them more. I think the GA will understand the idea of less related than twincest or auntcest. But also, GRRM obviously doesnt care if people are shocked when he has a whole dynasty involving siblings marrying siblings. It just sounds like you, personally, are grossed out. 

My point was it's about it's about storytelling - whether I or anyone else is grossed out or not, it would be a huuuge plot development putting those characters together that would have had some seeds planted by now and would deserve a lot aftermath/ramifications too. Sadly a lot of the season probably will be taken with the relationship of Jon and Daenery's there is simply no time to then work Jon with well... anyone else, particularity his sister.

And I don't really care to be grossed out, and I totally understand this is principally about people finding the actors attractive (to put it shortly/crudely). At this point though it would be easier, certainly make more sense politically, to pair Sansa off with Tyrion or Theon in 6 eps  but no one really seems to have the wish fulfilment for it. 

 

*well maybe not Theon since he can't breed

[Rose of Red Lake]

36 minutes ago, HouseLancaster said:

My point was it's about it's about storytelling - whether I or anyone else is grossed out or not, it would be a huuuge plot development putting those characters together that would have had some seeds planted by now and would deserve a lot aftermath/ramifications too. Sadly a lot of the season probably will be taken with the relationship of Jon and Daenery's there is simply no time to then work Jon with well... anyone else, particularity his sister.

And I don't really care to be grossed out, and I totally understand this is principally about people finding the actors attractive (to put it shortly/crudely). At this point though it would be easier, certainly make more sense politically, to pair Sansa off with Tyrion or Theon in 6 eps  but no one really seems to have the wish fulfilment for it. 

 

*well maybe not Theon since he can't breed

I mean these are the guys who gave us the Winterhell plot, with hardly any seeds for that planted at all. They'd do it just for shock value.

[Mystical]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

"I think one thing people are in danger of forgetting is that Samwell's got a really manipulative side to him..."

*reporter does a double take*

This interview with John Bradley fits right in with my Sam-overthrows-Dany theory

Why does the reporter do a double take? Never seen the show? Heck, John has said so himself at a previous Comic Con. And it should have been obvious to everyone who has watched the show. Sam might do something that benefits people at large (submitting Jon's name for LC and endorsing him) but it's sometimes just about his own benefit (Jon becoming LC meant he and Gilly could leave CB which is what Sam wanted).

[Lollygag]

Dolorous Edd put forth Jon's name in the books, not Sam. Was it different in the show? Don't recall. 

ASOS Jon XII

Maester Aemon answered, from the far end of the hall. "Your name has been put forth as Lord Commander, Jon."

That was so absurd Jon had to smile. "By who?" he said, looking for his friends. This had to be one of Pyp's japes, surely. But Pyp shrugged at him, and Grenn shook his head. It was Dolorous Edd Tollett who stood. "By me. Aye, it's a terrible cruel thing to do to a friend, but better you than me."

(Suspect Bronze Yohn put Edd up to it as Edd says it was either himself or Jon. Bronze Yohn would be very invested in an LC who’d keep up the heat looking for Waymar and Benjen was also lost. The Tolletts are sworn to the Royces.) 

 

 

[BalerionTheCat]

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Oooh yes I like that alignment for him.

Yes, Sam doesn't care for laws and oaths. He only thinks about what should be. And I could see him disliking Daenerys and her bending the knee. More so because she burned his brother.  Who was much more honorable than all these Lannisters who bent the knee by fear.

Would Sam plot to marry Jon to Sansa rather than Daenerys?

[NonoNono]

4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

"I think one thing people are in danger of forgetting is that Samwell's got a really manipulative side to him..."

*reporter does a double take*

This interview with John Bradley fits right in with my Sam-overthrows-Dany theory

Yep, Sam does that a lot. It's part of his cowardly nature and wits; when he is afraid of one outcome, he uses his wits to make people make that outcome go away. It is very consistent, very clear in the books too, and he probably doesn't even realize it himself.

edit: Also, he's the only "father" character left other than Davos, and in the show Davos isn't much of one. So he's the only one thinking about a child's future with Gilly.

[BalerionTheCat]

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

But also, GRRM obviously doesnt care if people are shocked when he has a whole dynasty involving siblings marrying siblings.

I believe it is GRRM purpose to shock with incest. As it is with torture and war and slavery.

Incest is not accepted, "by the old gods and the new". The Faith relented to the Targaryens because they had no choice (they had dragons). But they are none the less wrongs. Whether gods or genetic, half the Targaryens turns out mad, mentally unfit.

[Rose of Red Lake]

42 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes, Sam doesn't care for laws and oaths. He only thinks about what should be. And I could see him disliking Daenerys and her bending the knee. More so because she burned his brother.  Who was much more honorable than all these Lannisters who bent the knee by fear.

Would Sam plot to marry Jon to Sansa rather than Daenerys?

Yes, this is why I think Sam will give Jorah Heartsbane as a manipulative way to soften Jorah to the Northerners if they do rise against her. Jorah already owes Sam his life, the North are his kin, and Sam offers Jorah redemption because of his ties to Mormont, I think it would be very hard for Jorah to follow orders Dany's orders if they come into conflict.

[Bear Claw]

4 hours ago, HouseLancaster said:

Yes, a triangle that was supposed to be the main focus of his 'trilogy' and a story he would have spent a lot of time on (as would the TV series) had he gone through with it.

The point still stands - they're not just going to suddenly pair two hero siblings together. 

The triangle was started last year when LF mentioned Jon and Dany to Sansa, and this year it will be developed as Sansa disapproves of Dany. Is it romantic in nature? I think it could be. Jon and Sansa's interactions have been very emotional and tormented. Could be due to their horror at being attracted to one another (or whatever the outline said). 

[Error-504]

4 hours ago, HouseLancaster said:

My point was it's about it's about storytelling - whether I or anyone else is grossed out or not, it would be a huuuge plot development putting those characters together that would have had some seeds planted by now and would deserve a lot aftermath/ramifications too. Sadly a lot of the season probably will be taken with the relationship of Jon and Daenery's there is simply no time to then work Jon with well... anyone else, particularity his sister.

And I don't really care to be grossed out, and I totally understand this is principally about people finding the actors attractive (to put it shortly/crudely). At this point though it would be easier, certainly make more sense politically, to pair Sansa off with Tyrion or Theon in 6 eps  but no one really seems to have the wish fulfilment for it. 

 

*well maybe not Theon since he can't breed

At this point though it would be easier, certainly make more sense politically, to pair Sansa off with Sweet Robin in 6 eps  but no one really seems to have the wish fulfilment for it. 

 

fify

 

And yeah, never going to happen. And the Sansa/Jon romance would have three episodes max to develop, not 6. Atm, Jon is pretty infatuated with Sansa, has an apocalyptic event about to happen at his front door, not to mention being re-untied with Bran and Arya. If this were to happen, it would be the worst story writing ever. And forget about any Grammy. Could it be pulled off in the books? Sure, given enough plot development it could. But it won't, because it's impossible to happen now on the show, and that tells us it won't happen in the books. 

[Error-504]

58 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I believe it is GRRM purpose to shock with incest. As it is with torture and war and slavery.

Incest is not accepted, "by the old gods and the new". The Faith relented to the Targaryens because they had no choice (they had dragons). But they are none the less wrongs. Whether gods or genetic, half the Targaryens turns out mad, mentally unfit.

Actually, cousins is still acceptable. I just don't think it matters.