Error-504 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, NonoNono said: Does Sam have the book? Nope. It was in a septon's private diary which Sam transcribed. He does not have it. They will have to rely on Bran and Sam's word. The last book is titled A Dream of Spring. I don't believe winter will be over by the end of the book. People will hold onto "a dream of spring", hoping it will return, as the north remains snowed in. There is no sign of a long night returning, just winter. I believe winter moves south, and stops at a new wall. Sam brought some books with him, it's possible he brought that one. Regardless, the books still remains in the Citadel, and people take the word of a Maester as truth. Do you think the Maesters run back to the Citadel every-time something like this comes up, to grab the book and show everyone? come on, please put a little more thought in your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 More details from people who saw Episode 1 at the premier - Bran tells Dany that the wall has fallen and her dragon has been turned into a wight - Dany is "bitching about Sansa" in private to Jon - During this convo, Jon asks "how does one ride a dragon" and Dany say "by riding it." Then he gets on, and they fly around a while until they're alone. They land next to a waterfall. - Jon opens his eyes while he's kissing, the dragons are doing something - Some kind of sex is implied, that happens offscreen - The dragons watch them have offscreen sex (idk this sounded weird) - Cersei begrudgingly fucks Euron - Bron is sent to kill Jaime and Tyrion - Jaime shows up at Winterfell and comes face-to-face with Bran in the final scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonoNono Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, Error-504 said: Sam brought some books with him, it's possible he brought that one. Regardless, the books still remains in the Citadel, and people take the word of a Maester as truth. Do you think the Maesters run back to the Citadel every-time something like this comes up, to grab the book and show everyone? come on, please put a little more thought in your posts. 1- Sam speaks to Bran as if what he saw is on papers which he does not have with him, and is at the Citadel. 2- Sam is now likely not seen as a friend of the Citadel, having stolen stuff from them and run away. He cannot send a letter asking them to send him the septon's private diary or a copy of it. He just has to hope no one suspects him of having stolen stuff, and I'm not sure how they look on pupils who suddenly bail out. He is certainly in no position to ask them anything at all. So how do they make the case that yes Jon is the true heir to the Iron Throne, and not a bastard? 4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: More details from people who saw Episode 1 at the premier - Bron is sent to kill Jaime and Tyrion edit: Bronn being sent to kill Jaime and Tyrion... I assume he has a small contingent of men with him. Golden Company men? I never thought the GC would go to WF, but if Bronn is sent to do this... He wouldn't do it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error-504 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: I have a different perspective than most, I think Jon and Dany are firmly entrenched in the politics and won't be traditional heroes. I think they'll fulfill the second Dance, more or less as political adversaries, just like every other Targaryen in the past. Prophecy is talked about around them but I dont think either will fulfill a prophecy to be a savior to the entire realm. Mainly because Targaryens (Aemon, Rhaegar) and fire cultists think that this is what will happen. There is no twist that way. I think the only legendary warrior/hero we have in the story is Bran. The Starks have only fought against the Targaryens once, in Roberts rebellion, and we come to find out that was a war based on a lie. A lie that included a Targ marrying a Stark. A marriage in which they were both very much in love with each other. There seems to be a tendency for things to come full circle in this show, in which case, Jon marrying Dany would make sense. But yet, everyone is so hellbent on coming up with some kind of WTF twist, everyone discredits the obvious. Had Ned known the truth about Rhaegar and Lyanna, would he even had joined Roberts Rebellion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Error-504 said: Had Ned known the truth about Rhaegar and Lyanna, would he even had joined Roberts Rebellion? yeah. Aerys killed his dad and brother horrifically and Rhaegar didn't seem to give a fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error-504 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: More details from people who saw Episode 1 at the premier - Bran tells Dany that the wall has fallen and her dragon has been turned into a wight - Dany is "bitching about Sansa" in private to Jon - During this convo, Jon asks "how does one ride a dragon" and Dany say "by riding it." Then he gets on, and they fly around a while until they're alone. They land next to a waterfall. - Jon opens his eyes while he's kissing, the dragons are doing something - Some kind of sex is implied, that happens offscreen - The dragons watch them have offscreen sex (idk this sounded weird) - Cersei begrudgingly fucks Euron - Bron is sent to kill Jaime and Tyrion - Jaime shows up at Winterfell and comes face-to-face with Bran in the final scene The last two are interesting. So we have a plot device that re-unites Bronn with Jamie and Tyrion. I wonder if he (Bron) follows through, or joins up with them)? How far apart are the scenes in which Bron is sent, and Jamie shows up? Is there a possibility that Bron reaches Jamie before Jamie reaches WF? We clearly see Jamie fighting against the WW's, so if Bron arrives before Season 3, he must join Jamie, or die trying to kill him. Otherwise they won't meet up until at the earliest season 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonoNono Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, Error-504 said: The Starks have only fought against the Targaryens once, in Roberts rebellion, and we come to find out that was a war based on a lie. A lie that included a Targ marrying a Stark. A marriage in which they were both very much in love with each other. There seems to be a tendency for things to come full circle in this show, in which case, Jon marrying Dany would make sense. But yet, everyone is so hellbent on coming up with some kind of WTF twist, everyone discredits the obvious. Had Ned known the truth about Rhaegar and Lyanna, would he even had joined Roberts Rebellion? In the teasers they show the feather flying away, leaving the crypts. One could see it as the lie that caused this strong division to go away, repairing the broken bond between the Starks and the Targaryens that resulted from the rebellion. Rhaegar couldn't tell about Lyanna's child, because he had to protect him at all cost, even from his own father. But it could also be seen as a symbol of another lie, leaving to do damage elsewhere once more. Funnily enough, I checked to see if the feather is a Mockingbird's feather (Littlefinger's sigil), but no, it's a guinea fowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Mystical said: (...) As far as the books go, it's even worse. This is a guy who willingly (unlike St. Tyrion of the show) married a 12 year old prisoner for political power, who had her strip and fondled her TWELVE year old body even though she didn't want it. Then complained at length that his twelve year old prisoner bride didn't act the part of wife like he wanted her to. Disgusting. And the things Tyrion has done since...unless you hate Sansa I won't ever understand why you would want her with a guy like Tyrion (and some of the other pedo guys like Sandor). (...) OMG another Tyrion hater... Sweet summer child, you need to learn the difference between reading a book (watching a series) and writing your own morally-aligned fantasies. I don't want GRRM (D&D) to fulfil any wish except this one : to know the end of his bloody story at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Error-504 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 29 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: yeah. Aerys killed his dad and brother horrifically and Rhaegar didn't seem to give a fuck. Wow, this shows how little a grasp you have of the story. Rhaegar and Aerys already had divided the kingdom into two camps of supporters. Rhaegar had eloped with Lyanna prior to The Starks being executed, chances are he had no idea what had happened. When he did find out, it was too late. The very reason the Starks were there was to demand Rhaegar return Lyanna, thinking she had been kidnapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Claw Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 51 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: More details from people who saw Episode 1 at the premier - Bran tells Dany that the wall has fallen and her dragon has been turned into a wight - Dany is "bitching about Sansa" in private to Jon - During this convo, Jon asks "how does one ride a dragon" and Dany say "by riding it." Then he gets on, and they fly around a while until they're alone. They land next to a waterfall. - Jon opens his eyes while he's kissing, the dragons are doing something - Some kind of sex is implied, that happens offscreen - The dragons watch them have offscreen sex (idk this sounded weird) - Cersei begrudgingly fucks Euron - Bron is sent to kill Jaime and Tyrion - Jaime shows up at Winterfell and comes face-to-face with Bran in the final scene 1 The bolded look new/more detailed to me. Where do they come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 58 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: - Dany is "bitching about Sansa" in private to Jon - During this convo, Jon asks "how does one ride a dragon" and Dany say "by riding it." Then he gets on, and they fly around a while until they're alone. They land next to a waterfall. OMG. When did this show become a cross between a Telenovela and a RomCom? Women bitching all over the place about each other. Men totally inept at dealing with it. And then sending one sister to deal with the other because they themselves can't deal with them stoopid whimens. He employs the old 'lets get some alone time and sex each other up', maybe that will help quiet down all this female bickering. And I bet Dany's bitching is simply 'why does this bitch not fall on her feet and immediately love me like everyone else on this show does'. 22 minutes ago, Jô Maltese said: OMG another Tyrion hater... Sweet summer child, you need to learn the difference between reading a book (watching a series) and writing your own morally-aligned fantasies. I don't want GRRM (D&D) to fulfil any wish except this one : to know the end of his bloody story at last. I love how you immediately classify me as a hater because my opinion differs from yours. Oh sweet Summer child, you will never get anywhere in the world with that attitude. And are you denying the canon of the books? Am I getting that right? Are you denying Tyrion wanted to marry Sansa of his own free will? Are you denying that he got handsy with his twelve year old prisoner bride? Are you denying his bitching about the marriage not going the way he wanted even though he knew fully well why and admitted as much? Maybe it's not me who actually needs to read the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Bear Claw said: The bolded look new/more detailed to me. Where do they come from? It's all from Mr_Freeload on freefolk: "Jon and Daenerys are walking towards the dragons chatting about some shit I forgot, its not relevant. Probably about Sansa being a bitch to Daenerys." "They approach the dragons. Daenerys asks if he would like to ride a dragon, and Jon asks 'how does one ride a dragon.'" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, Error-504 said: Wow, this shows how little a grasp you have of the story. Rhaegar and Aerys already had divided the kingdom into two camps of supporters. Rhaegar had eloped with Lyanna prior to The Starks being executed, chances are he had no idea what had happened. When he did find out, it was too late. The very reason the Starks were there was to demand Rhaegar return Lyanna, thinking she had been kidnapped. I doubt Ned's opinion of Rhaegar would change. Now he's an oblivious idiot instead of just an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonoNono Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: I doubt Ned's opinion of Rhaegar would change. Now he's an oblivious idiot instead of just an idiot. If he knew what Rhaegar knew, why would he not change his opinion? Rhaegar had to protect the child, presumably to save the world, even if at the cost of many lives. Ned picked up where Rhaegar left off: the protection of the child, to the detriment to his honor and his wife's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, NonoNono said: If he knew what Rhaegar knew, why would he not change his opinion? Rhaegar had to protect the child, presumably to save the world, even if at the cost of many lives. Ned picked up where Rhaegar left off: the protection of the child, to the detriment to his honor and his wife's. Because he's acting just like Mel, trying to force a prophecy, only the kingdom explodes because of his actions. He doesn't even know what the prophecy means. He's going to get his dick bitten off just like Cersei will, Stannis will, Dany will, ect. No one is going to get it right when they try THAT hard. Ned did all the heavy lifting, acting like a responsible adult, that Rhaegar couldn't seem to do. Ned has no reason to love Rhaegar, who locked his sister in away tower while she was dying. Just for fun, here's the summation of Targaryen reign: tyrant idiot tyrant idiot tyrant idiot tyrant idiot . . . . Aerys: tyrant Rhaegar: idiot Daenerys: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonoNono Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Because he's acting just like Mel, trying to force a prophecy, only the kingdom explodes because of his actions. He doesn't even know what the prophecy means. He's going to get his dick bitten off just like Cersei will, Stannis will, Dany will, ect. No one is going to get it right when they try THAT hard. Ned did all the heavy lifting, acting like a responsible adult, that Rhaegar couldn't seem to do. Ned has no reason to love Rhaegar, who locked his sister in away tower while she was dying. Just for fun, here's the summation of Targaryen reign: tyrant idiot tyrant idiot tyrant idiot tyrant idiot . . . . Aerys: tyrant Rhaegar: idiot Daenerys: Ned knows his sister loved him, so that's one thing. Ned did not know of the prophecy, and sure Rhaegar could be wrong, but he was willing to raise Jon as his own child to the detriment of his and his wife's honor. Add that Rhaegar believed the child was seemingly key to saving the kingdom, I doubt Ned's opinion would not change. Doesn't mean he would think he's awesome, but Ned had started to continue what Rhaegar did: let a lie carry on, to protect Jon, at a great cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, NonoNono said: Ned knows his sister loved him, so that's one thing. Ned did not know of the prophecy, and sure Rhaegar could be wrong, but he was willing to raise Jon as his own child to the detriment of his and his wife's honor. Add that Rhaegar believed the child was seemingly key to saving the kingdom, I doubt Ned's opinion would not change. Doesn't mean he would think he's awesome, but Ned had started to continue what Rhaegar did: let a lie carry on, to protect Jon, at a great cost. Nah, I don't romanticize Rhaegar like that. There's no indication that Rhaegar had to bear the same burdens that Ned had to bear. He got to fall in love with a Stark girl, run away with her, have a bunch of sex, then slowly realize that he fucked up, and had to go to war. He's just a dumb "lovestruck prince," to use GRRM's phrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T and A Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Because he's acting just like Mel, trying to force a prophecy, only the kingdom explodes because of his actions. He doesn't even know what the prophecy means. He's going to get his dick bitten off just like Cersei will, Stannis will, Dany will, ect. No one is going to get it right when they try THAT hard. Ned did all the heavy lifting, acting like a responsible adult, that Rhaegar couldn't seem to do. Ned has no reason to love Rhaegar, who locked his sister in away tower while she was dying. Just for fun, here's the summation of Targaryen reign: tyrant idiot tyrant idiot tyrant idiot tyrant idiot . . . . Aerys: tyrant Rhaegar: idiot Daenerys: Actually it goes more like this: Imperator Weakling Manniac Best King of all time Idiot Two idiots who ruined their whole dynasty and the continent Traumatised boy Idiot Religious loonatic Actually pretty good The worst King of them all A good King A very passive King A good King The second best King A good King A manniac again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, T and A said: Actually it goes more like this: Imperator Weakling Manniac Best King of all time Idiot Two idiots who ruined their whole dynasty and the continent Traumatised boy Idiot Religious loonatic Actually pretty good The worst King of them all A good King A very passive King A good King The second best King A good King A manniac again you're not supposed to oscillate wildly like that. The good kings are a drop in the bucket if the next guy comes in and ruins it. Westeros needs stability from one king to the next. Normal, stable rulers are good. Some rulers will be BATSHIT CRAZY...some won't! You won't know which ones! No other House had this problem except for maybe the Ironborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T and A Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: you're not supposed to oscillate wildly like that. The good kings are a drop in the bucket if the next guy comes in and ruins it. Westeros needs stability from one king to the next. Normal, stable rulers are good. Some rulers will be BATSHIT CRAZY...some won't! You won't know which ones! No other House had this problem except for maybe the Ironborn. Those (my List) were the Targaryen Kings so far. I did not oscillate into the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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