Lollygag Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: I hope Bran does become king. It's so wild and stupid and funny, it would round the show out so fittingly. I feel like D&D would be thinking of Bran as a philosopher king which sounds a lot like Aegon who seems to have been raised as an enlightened and idealized king. Except show Bran is coming off more like the teenager who just googles useless random stuff all day like the history of wheelchairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longest night Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 3 hours ago, divica said: It is just strange that the moment that they should do all that they can to keep secret got leaked. And there weren t extras in the scene. If HBO wanted they should be able to find who leaked it months ago. There were extras in the scene. A leak from long ago said there would be a major death in episode 5, and it was so shocking that the extras all gasped and they had to refilm the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwish Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 35 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: I hope Bran does become king. It's so wild and stupid and funny, it would round the show out so fittingly. God mercy us! Neither Bran has any interest for the throne. He doesn’t even want winterfell which is his home. What is going to do all day? Plug himself to the trees and watch history of Westeros in HD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, Lollygag said: I feel like D&D would be thinking of Bran as a philosopher king which sounds a lot like Aegon who seems to have been raised as an enlightened and idealized king. This statement I am about to make I say with great hesitation and caution, but will go forth and babble anyway... IF, and that is a big IF, this is the ending that will (supposedly) also be used in the books by GRRM, then this actually fits with GRRM's own literary theme; that the coveted throne-like items are all essentially rejected/discarded and the "green" nature option takes over. This has happened across several GRRM stories. Greenseeing does mean enlightenment. 19 minutes ago, Lollygag said: Except show Bran is coming off more like the teenager who just googles useless random stuff all day like the history of wheelchairs. Pff-hahaa . That was good. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 38 minutes ago, Nightwish said: God mercy us! Neither Bran has any interest for the throne. He doesn’t even want winterfell which is his home. What is going to do all day? Plug himself to the trees and watch history of Westeros in HD? Historically, when the royal succession was unclear, the lords of Westeros have summoned a Great Council to decide the matter. You cannot force the unwilling into becoming the monarch; they would simply abdicate. Remember what happened with Aemon. None of the Starks — nay, not Jon either — has the least interest whatsoever in rulership of lands not their own, let alone of all those other kingdoms. If nominated they will not run, and if elected they shall not serve. Of the four, only Sansa wants any sort of rulership role, and she intends to be the Lady of Winterfell and nothing more. She would not be willing to rule the other kingdoms. Eventually this Great Council will elect someone willing to don the purple for a term at the helm of nations. There's no way to predict whom these summoned ”prince-electors of the Seven Kingdoms” will choose, but it won't be a minor or someone who's not already a lord and unfamiliar with the reins of power. And they'll probably make it non-hereditary because they will have seen the disaster that having hereditary monarchs creates. Note that this is nothing whatsoever like a democracy. It's not what the Night's Watch does at all. It is just a few prince-electors, perhaps just one per kingdom plus one for the Citadel and one for Faith, who each must give their consent to be governed by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: This statement I am about to make I say with great hesitation and caution, but will go forth and babble anyway... IF, and that is a big IF, this is the ending that will (supposedly) also be used in the books by GRRM, then this actually fits with GRRM's own literary theme; that the coveted throne-like items are all essentially rejected/discarded and the "green" nature option takes over. This has happened across several GRRM stories. Greenseeing does mean enlightenment. Pff-hahaa . That was good. Thank you. I would love an ending like this. The throne can go rot. Know of any threads on this in the book forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, Lollygag said: I would love an ending like this. The throne can go rot. Know of any threads on this in the book forum? Not really. I am not sure how one would do if I started one there. Sometimes posters get upset when another starts to discuss old GRRM works, so I never bothered. But, allow me a minute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen Peas Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 15 hours ago, House Cambodia said: Oh, you absolutely can and ASOIAF is a perfect example (as you say, just forget the TV show!). I can even sympathise with GRRM taking 8 years and counting to get tWOW out. The thing is, the books' narrative has the surface level that we all get. When you re-read them you know Ned's beheading, the Red Wedding etc are coming and there's no surprise re. events. However, your appreciation of the books deepens when, with the help of AWOIAF (written by the creators of this site) and numerous blogs by intense fans, you start to find the deeper layers - the mythology, the creation/prehistory hints, the magic, the Children, the background histories of great families, the symbolism of the swords, the prophecies and much more. I don't totally agree. I guess it depends how you read. Some people go through big events, and main storylines. But some do dwelve in details. And as much as they could miss a lot, is it enough to re-read 7/8 1000 pages books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 @sweetsunray My quoting isn't working too: Viserys was already narcissistic and paranoid even before he met the Dothraki. I don't have the quotes with me but Dany mentioned in her first chapter how Viserys would always tell her that people were trying to kill them, but she never saw any of them. And I don't need to mention the multiple times Dany has memories of him being abusive to her. It isn't Viserys' inability to make allies with an unfamiliar culture that made him paranoid and narcissistic, he was already paranoid and narcissistic, to begin with. Your point lies on the assumption that Dany's inability to work with politically with people other than the Dothraki (which I disagree with but will get to later) will somehow make her paranoid and narcissistic like Viserys. If that was the case, why didn't she become so when the Qartheen didn't support her with armies? Why didn't she become so when the initial negotiations for the Unsullied didn't go as planned? The point is that Dany has already gone through several trials and tribulations throughout her story and if she was going to crack like Viserys, it would have happened a long time ago, Viserys would have reacted completely differently to the way she acted after the Qartheen denied her an army. He wouldn't have acted as calm and collected as Dany did when she tricked the slaver's while "trading" Drogon for the unsullied. Viserys wouldn't have even attempted to make "peace" with the Meereenese. In terms of Meereen, I've read the Meerenese Knot before and while it is well written and has some interesting points, the "peace" that Dany made wasn't really a real peace but a sham or fragile peace that the Meerenese were going to turn back on one way or the other. This was discussed at full length in the Daenerys re-read we did a few years with several good essays and discussions from members on our site (the link is in my signature if you are interested). I'm not going to write much about it since it is beside the point. I'm not denying that Dany is going to have to rely on allies in the seven kingdoms during her invasion, what I'm arguing against is that somehow she is going to become like Viserys if she is denied help from some lords. As pointed above she has already been denied and rejected several times and has had to carve her own path throughout the book. If she was going to break, it should have been then. And she isn't invading Westeros expecting people to offer her armies she already knows the possibility that people will reject her which is the whole point of her getting her own army. In fact, that point has already been discussed between her and Jorah right before she got her Unsullied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/7/2019 at 10:11 PM, longest night said: Btw, could you imagine Jon not being king at the end of this shitshow? The entirety of Jon's and Bran's character arcs would be worth nothing. All the build up to him being the rightful heir? Nothing. They were already laughably robbed in the Long Night of their story arcs. Vanity Fair can imagine it, and they may not be wrong. They present reasoned arguments for why Martin is certainly NOT planning on turning Jon into some Aragorn-like figure. But at least he’ll get to pet Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Is Cersei really dying with a ceiling falling on top of her? If D&D go through with this fuckery I am done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longest night Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, CrypticWeirwood said: Vanity Fair can imagine it, and they may not be wrong. They present reasoned arguments for why Martin is certainly NOT planning on turning Jon into some Aragorn-like figure. But at least he’ll get to pet Ghost. So does that make Arya Gollum? When do we get her falling into a pool of lava? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hedge of Hog Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, longest night said: So does that make Arya Gollum? When do we get her falling into a pool of lava? . someone mentioned that jon is Aragorn but will turn into Frodo - he is so traumatised from all his experience that he disappears and becomes a 'ghost' - he will not reunite with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hedge of Hog Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I also think that for the 'wheel to be truly broken dany has to die or at least disappear. Perhaps this is her metaphorically taking a knife in the heart for her people and making that sacrifice. Although she does not plan on this and that is where jo steps in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said: someone mentioned that jon is Aragorn but will turn into Frodo - he is so traumatised from all his experience that he disappears and becomes a 'ghost' - he will not reunite with anyone. Turning his back on whatever confederacy is left of the Six Kingdoms (the North will be free again, and Sansa its Queen) to disappear back into the world of the Wildlings where he can reunite with Ghost and Tormund is by far the sweeter destiny for Jon than a bitter life stuck in a pointy chair surrounded by the same plots and scheming that have consumed so many Starks, including his own close family. Northerners are not meant for Southron intrigues. The social cues are all wrong. One of the very few Starks who can be said to have been successful in the capital was Lord Cregan Stark, who served as Hand for a single day at the end of the Dance of Dragons after Aegon II perished by poison. A day was all he needed, just long enough to pass judgement on the Greens, quickly marry a Blackwood, and return to Winterfell. Let Jon fade into legend. We shall not see his like again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Kaguya said: Is Cersei really dying with a ceiling falling on top of her? If D&D go through with this fuckery I am done. We don't know yet. But why would poetic justice be a problem here? It worked out well enough when the dragon caused the same to happen in The Fall of the House of Usher, so a bit of an homage would be nicely literary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Just now, CrypticWeirwood said: We don't know yet. But why would poetic justice be a problem here? It worked out well enough when the dragon caused the same to happen in The Fall of the House of Usher, so a bit of an homage would be nicely literary. This would be great. I was also thinking about Cersei's house of cards falling down on her head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hedge of Hog Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said: Turning his back on whatever confederacy is left of the Six Kingdoms (the North will be free again, and Sansa its Queen) to disappear back into the world of the Wildlings where he can reunite with Ghost and Tormund is by far the sweeter destiny for Jon than a bitter life stuck in a pointy chair surrounded by the same plots and scheming that have consumed so many Starks, including his own close family. Northerners are not meant for Southron intrigues. The social cues are all wrong. One of the very few Starks who can be said to have been successful in the capital was Lord Cregan Stark, who served as Hand for a single day at the end of the Dance of Dragons after Aegon II perished by poison. A day was all he needed, just long enough to pass judgement on the Greens, quickly marry a Blackwood, and return to Winterfell. Let Jon fade into legend. We shall not see his like again. I agree with that but I guess I do not want him to kill dany, but I think she has to due for the story to progress. It's just such a sad way for her to go. I was hoping they would both bugger off together but only a baby would bring them together and also create a future for thier house, but this would not allow the breaking of the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 3 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said: Vanity Fair can imagine it, and they may not be wrong. They present reasoned arguments for why Martin is certainly NOT planning on turning Jon into some Aragorn-like figure. But at least he’ll get to pet Ghost. Martin made a will naming Jon King in the north ages ago. Whatever they say is just fanfiction to justify whatever the show will do. The idea that Jon will simply abandon the north, his family and the other kingdoms to fend for themselves after all these crisis is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, divica said: Martin made a will naming Jon King in the north ages ago. Whatever they say is just fanfiction to justify whatever the show will do. The idea that Jon will simply abandon the north, his family and the other kingdoms to fend for themselves after all these crisis is laughable. This wouldn't be abandoning the north, only the south — who quite frankly deserve abandonment. Plus just think of all those lands turning fertile enough for crops and easier living once the seasons return to their annual cycle! Maybe the waterfall won't be frozen so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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