Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[Maia]

13 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

And am starting to think that the leaks about Jon's  going North to the Wall will hold--he goes hoping to end the Winter once and for all.

IMHO, that would be just him returning to his original book plot, after taking over Stannis's and part of FAegon's arcs in the show  . I doubt that he ever leaves NW or engages in the KITN redux plot in the books, should they ever come out. His arc is very much about the Others, but since the show chose to marginalize them in favor of politics, he had to be given political plots of other characters.

And I doubt that there is going to be any certainty of the Others/WWs being truly gone forever, either in the series or in the show. In the show Craster gave 99 sons to WWs, but we have only ever seen a dozen of them. And the NK didn't die after those who made _him_ did, not to mention that such a cheap, but complete victory would irretrievably damage the chances of the prequel show gaining any traction. So, I fully expect to see a "monster egg" shot in the end  as far as they are concerned.

 

13 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

Am also wondering if Westeros is permanently "cursed"--and there's no way to "fix" it. No way to end the unnatural seasons. No way to fix what's been broken. It just needs to be eternally endured.

I have long thought that the previous Long Night wasn't defeated by people in any real sense - they just managed to survive it and maybe stopped the Others from making it worse somehow. And, of course, the greatest curse of all are the humans themselves...

 

13 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

Now, why he's a Targaryen and why he was resurrected? Those are just hanging there.

Yep. He didn't even set his sword on fire with his blood like Beric did. But then again, the show tries hard to avoid mystical and magical elements, which should be very prominent in his book plot.

 

12 hours ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

Dany vision in halls of undying has not been totally completed yet. There maybe some hope for them..

Nah, I want the show Dany dead now. She was my favourite character too - and I am very disappointed with GRRM for going for this low-hanging fruit, if the elements of her ending weren't wildly taken out of context by the showrunners*,  but it is what it is.

Nor do I see how Dany could be "green eyes", as neither book Dany's nor Emilia's eyes are green? Also, Arya already killed LF in the show, who at least had green-grey eyes in the books. None of the actors are actually green-eyed, of course, not even the Lannisters, so...

* like Connington's/Jorah's grayscale, with the sly mention of how it _might_ have sparked a huge epidemic, as it probably does in the books, battle on a frozen lake, Shireen's burning, likely Jon's ressurection, ice dragons, Braavosi flipping their stances on slavery, etc.

 

10 hours ago, T and A said:

 This story was allways mainly about Westeros politics. What is the focus of the books really? We have seen 72% of the story so far.

The focus was on silly and destructive politics, yes, but always in the shadow of the impending epic environmental disaster. And some of political pay-offs are tightly tied to that - Robert's profligacy, for instance _should_ have resulted in severe lack of resources for dealing with the Winter. Ditto Robb's neglect of the actual administration of the North and subsequent fighting there, devastation of the Riverlands, etc.  There should be massive famines, epidemics, etc.  It would be incredibly cheap of GRRM to skip on the consequences of all of this just to write about a bit more of the nobles squabbling, but completely divorced from the struggle for sheer survival, like the show did. I mean, it is clear that there must be fighting over resources and such, humans being what they are, but people also need to band together somewhat.

 

10 hours ago, T and A said:

But all the other POV, except the one you mentioned are explicitely NOT about the Others. Even Davos POV is mostly not about the Others. And they outnumber what you mentioned. Case, you just made my point.

Stannis's arc after his defeat on the Blackwater is all about the Others. And some stuff happening in Essos is also connected to the imminent Long Night, like the actions of the Red Priests and possibly even whatever happens between Dany and the Dothraki after ADwD.

And the thing is - the Others aren't even the main threat in the books. From the World book it is clear that while they did make it to some parts of Essos the last time and they did terrorize Westeros, they weren't this overwhelming force.  Even in Nan's stories they mostly haunted the woods outside human settlements. No, the Long Night is, the epic 10-year-long winter that they are due after their 10-year-long summer is. And it is a global phenomenon, not just some Westerosi or Northern issue. The series isn't just man against man, but also man against nature/supernatural.

Now, of course GRRM can wimp out on all of this like the showrunners did, but it would be a huge letdown if he does, IMHO.

[The Bard of Banefort]

It looks very likely that Jon will kill Dany next episode and Bran will be selected as the new king. Place your bets now, kids.

One of the leaks mentioned that “Jon sees Arya in the throne room,” which I think means that Jon will kill Dany in order to prevent Arya from doing it and therefore be killed for treason as a result.

 If one of the themes is that history is a wheel, then I can understand how the show will end with Drogon flying off into the great unknown and the Night’s Watch reassembling. Give it another 8,000 years.

[Targaryen Peas]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

One of the leaks mentioned that “Jon sees Arya in the throne room,” which I think means that Jon will kill Dany in order to prevent Arya from doing it and therefore be killed for treason as a result.

What if the "Jon sees Arya in the throne room" is actually after Arya kills Dany with Jon's face, and then Jon arrives and find Arya who's now with her real face? 

[weirwoodface]

Good morning, I was just reading the weekly snarky GoT recap from The New Yorker and noticed that the writer must have been given access to a season screener for journalistic purposes, because she included a teaser sentence about a couple of things that will occur in the finale:

Quote

Next week: the Queen of the Ashes is startled to find that the Iron Throne has melted, and Bran goes on one last warg.

Link: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/on-television/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-hells-bells

[divica]

1 minute ago, weirwoodface said:

Good morning, I was just reading the weekly snarky GoT recap from The New Yorker and noticed that the writer must have been given access to a season screener for journalistic purposes, because she included a teaser sentence about a couple of things that will occur in the finale:

Link: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/on-television/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-hells-bells

WTF? The way I read that is that bran will warg into Drogon and kidnap Danny. 

Or worse, warg into Jon and kill her. That would be even worse than Jon killing her

[House Cambodia]

5 minutes ago, Targaryen Peas said:

What if the "Jon sees Arya in the throne room" is actually after Arya kills Dany with Jon's face, and then Jon arrives and find Arya who's now with her real face? 

I see these kind of suggestions all the time; am I wrong in thinking a Faceless Man can only don the face of a dead person, or not?

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, divica said:

WTF? The way I read that is that bran will warg into Drogon and kidnap Danny. 

Or worse, warg into Jon and kill her. That would be even worse than Jon killing her

Surely warging only happens in the vicinity of the warger? It would have to be in or around Winterfell?

[weirwoodface]

3 minutes ago, divica said:

WTF? The way I read that is that bran will warg into Drogon and kidnap Danny. 

Or worse, warg into Jon and kill her. That would be even worse than Jon killing her

I don't know, it's pretty vague IMO. Bran could warg into anything at this point, or the recapper could misunderstand what warging means and be mixing it up for one of his vision quests at a weirwood. But either way, Bran still having a huge part to play is confirmed.

[House Cambodia]

11 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It looks very likely that Jon will kill Dany next episode and Bran will be selected as the new king. Place your bets now, kids.

One of the leaks mentioned that “Jon sees Arya in the throne room,” which I think means that Jon will kill Dany in order to prevent Arya from doing it and therefore be killed for treason as a result.

 If one of the themes is that history is a wheel, then I can understand how the show will end with Drogon flying off into the great unknown and the Night’s Watch reassembling. Give it another 8,000 years.

Bran won't be king, but I quite like the other thoughts here.

[weirwoodface]

2 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Surely warging only happens in the vicinity of the warger? It would have to be in or around Winterfell?

Or Bran has made the trip south.

[Lord Varys]

10 hours ago, divica said:

I dont know if the hodor moment isn t bran warguing into hodor (in the vision) while he is in a vision so that he can make the hodor in the vision act.

The best way to make sense of the 'Hold the door' thing is if Bran took possession of Hodor when Meera (and Jojen?) were attacked when they crossed the Black Gate again (or when the Others finally attack the Wall and the gate).

After all, the crucial weirdness of 'Hold the Door' is that Hodor's mind is destroyed in the future affecting the past. Hodor was never a sane person in the books, after all. He only ever said 'Hodor', unlike the show thing. In the show the shattering of Hodor's mind never made sense.

But in the books it could if Hodor was mentally connected to weirwood tree and its perception of time - which is all time at once, not split in past, present, and future - while being possessed by Bran. And that could happen when Bran presses him into service to defend the Black Gate beneath the Wall.

And for all that Bran doesn't have to leave the cave.

[Free Northman Reborn]

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The best way to make sense of the 'Hold the door' thing is if Bran took possession of Hodor when Meera (and Jojen?) were attacked when they crossed the Black Gate again (or when the Others finally attack the Wall and the gate).

After all, the crucial weirdness of 'Hold the Door' is that Hodor's mind is destroyed in the future affecting the past. Hodor was never a sane person in the books, after all. He only ever said 'Hodor', unlike the show thing. In the show the shattering of Hodor's mind never made sense.

But in the books it could if Hodor was mentally connected to weirwood tree and its perception of time - which is all time at once, not split in past, present, and future - while being possessed by Bran. And that could happen when Bran presses him into service to defend the Black Gate beneath the Wall.

And for all that Bran doesn't have to leave the cave.

Holy crap. You’re STILL stuck on the idea that Bran isn’t leaving the cave. Really now. It’s like you cannot accept failure even in the face of overwhelming information to the contrary.

[divica]

10 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

I don't know, it's pretty vague IMO. Bran could warg into anything at this point, or the recapper could misunderstand what warging means and be mixing it up for one of his vision quests at a weirwood. But either way, Bran still having a huge part to play is confirmed.

What is the point of a vision now? 

I remember some rumors about a flashback with rhaegar, but now it feels useless... And info about the ww would be idiotic... 

At most it could be related to bring Danny back to life, but why would anyone want that at the moment? 

There isn t manny things with meaning that bran can do with his powers at the moment 

[divica]

2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Holy crap. You’re STILL stuck on the idea that Bran isn’t leaving the cave. Really now. It’s like you cannot accept failure even in the face of overwhelming information to the contrary.

I also hold to that idea. The show couldn t really have bran stuck in a cave sending dreams/visions to other people right? 

And the way they handled bran in the show is just awful... If he was there or not wouldn t really make a diference

[Lord Varys]

Just now, Free Northman Reborn said:

Holy crap. You’re STILL stuck on the idea that Bran isn’t leaving the cave. Really now. It’s like you cannot accept failure even in the face of overwhelming information to the contrary.

What evidence? The evidence that Jon is not playing any relevant role whatsoever in defeating the Others? Basically the same role a carrier pigeon could have played...

Who is fooling himself here? You just pick and choose here. What you like is confirmed, what you don't like isn't confirmed.

The reason why Bran is never going to leave the cave still is that the character was utterly useless in the show since he did that. And that strongly implies the writers couldn't figure out what to do with him because they diverted from George's path.

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, divica said:

I also hold to that idea. The show couldn t really have bran stuck in a cave sending dreams/visions to other people right? 

And the way they handled bran in the show is just awful... If he was there or not wouldn t really make a diference

As far as I can see even more people hold that idea now than they did before the show was essentially over. I mean, Bran being outside the cave and in proper contact with anybody else should result in an immediate victory of whatever side he has attached himself to because he FUCKING KNOWS EVERYTHING!

[Ser Quork]

7 minutes ago, divica said:

I also hold to that idea. The show couldn t really have bran stuck in a cave sending dreams/visions to other people right? 

And the way they handled bran in the show is just awful... If he was there or not wouldn t really make a diference

Yes, I'm still of the view Bran remains in the cave.  The hold the door is probably to get Meera away from the cave or some such.

[weirwoodface]

5 minutes ago, divica said:

What is the point of a vision now? 

I remember some rumors about a flashback with rhaegar, but now it feels useless... And info about the ww would be idiotic... 

At most it could be related to bring Danny back to life, but why would anyone want that at the moment? 

There isn t manny things with meaning that bran can do with his powers at the moment 

He may warg into Drogon. I just don't know what the motivation he'd have for kidnapping Daenerys. I don't know what motivation he'd have for warging into Drogon, period--unless it would be to try to stop Drogon from following Dany's orders to "dracarys" everything she sees. I can't even imagine how Dany would feel though as she'd think that even her dragon was against her. I really don't like speculating too much here.

[Darryk]

So how is all this stuff about Tyrion's trial gonna fit in? Why would he yell "they deserved it" when he was trying to prevent Dany from killing them? Could it have been a fake scene?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

3 hours ago, divica said:

I also hold to that idea. The show couldn t really have bran stuck in a cave sending dreams/visions to other people right? 

And the way they handled bran in the show is just awful... If he was there or not wouldn t really make a diference

 

3 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

Yes, I'm still of the view Bran remains in the cave.  The hold the door is probably to get Meera away from the cave or some such.

I am also very skeptical that Bran leaves the cave. How could it happen? Hodor and Summer and Jojen all die in the cave and Meera drags bran back alone like in the show? (LOLZ) didn't Issac say that summer was only killed due to budget?

As far as D&D following GRRM's wtf moment here--we dont know exactly what part of it they are following, dos anyone have the SSM about it? He told them that Hodor dies caught in a time-flux inside Bran's time traveling mind? because that could happen anywhere, did he tell them it happens at the back door of the tree Bran is currently residing in? Has anyone even considered that tree's dont have doors? I mean it literally could be anything...Or are we also believing the idea that the King White Walker 'marked' Bran in a dream on his arm which somehow means that the this King WW can all of sudden pass the magical barrier into the Tree and that they all have to escape hundreds of zombies? I'm gonna go with a HARD NO on that one.