Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[longest night]

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Bran is still inside. Check out Isaac's interview about it. So he exists. It's not some alien entity that controls or animates Bran's body. Bran has all histories that have ever happened in his head, and his ego collapsed, from which desire for power come... 

You don't say of Buddha that something else controlled Siddharta either.

I've watched his interviews, like when he said that the 3EC told Theon he was a good man, not because he particularly cared, but because he knew they needed a few more seconds for Arya to arrive. 
When it comes to warging, technically the person is still there. We see it in the books as Hodor tries to fight it until he gives up.

[Nightwish]

1 hour ago, HouseLancaster said:

There has been no evidence to suggest Bran has warged into another person since the Hodor tragedy. Nor has there been any scene to imply he's abusing his abilities purely for the aquisition of power. And given how the show telegraph's plot points I would give very little chance to this narrative becoming apparent with only one hour (ish) to go. It's also worth noting, I'm not saying theyre pure, both Bran and the Raven have been a force for good - and that's all we've really been given thus far.

Honestly what's the good in this situation? 

Bran was the one who notified John about the WW gathering and from there John panicked and this set all the Wight expedition into motion resulting in thousands of lives being lost. What if they hadn't managed to kill the NK? 

Theoretically speaking Bran should have known with his notion and understanding of the world as 3eyeR that the Others had no way to pass the wall.

So what was the so special thing that made him send a note? 

His special warning abilities only served an awfully risky and bad plan. And from there the domino started until we reached Kings Landing fiasco.

It's awful that he ends up another "used" and at the same time "useless" character that the script writers transform into a vehicle for doom and not for salvation. 

[sweetsunray]

9 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Same for me. I believe the Books' Others are the demons of the Lion of Nights. They are as old as the gods. And beyond any mortal, even CotF, ability to create.

There wasn't always a Long Night (because that is caused by meteor impact events), but there were Others way before there were First Men.

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, longest night said:

I've watched his interviews, like when he said that the 3EC told Theon he was a good man, not because he particularly cared, but because he knew they needed a few more seconds for Arya to arrive. 
When it comes to warging, technically the person is still there. We see it in the books as Hodor tries to fight it every step of the way.

It soothed Theon to hear it from Bran, nevertheless. Though it was stupid they didn't allow him those few seconds more to discover that his sacrifice had not been for naught.

Yes, Hodor tries to fight it, but is too simpleminded to do this. A man or woman with full mental capacity could fight skinchanging. We know that too. In the show Bran says he is the knowledge of the world. That is what it means to be 3EC.

[BalerionTheCat]

5 minutes ago, longest night said:

Why did the 3EC say to Sam that Jon needs to know, and then needs to know now?

Because Daenerys would go mad anyway and she must be stopped. If not mad now, sooner than her father anyway.

6 minutes ago, longest night said:

Why did the 3EC refer to Jaime as an old friend?

And Bran has no anger for Jaime or Theon because otherwise they all would not be at the place they had to be to save the day. Even if with D&D, everyone but Arya seemed useless.

1 minute ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

But are there any gods really? The old gods are all the greenseers' "second lives" in the immortal weirwood network. And most of the greenseers have been from the Children, not from the First Men.

I don't think the old gods (possibly aka the weirwood network) are the Maiden of Light and the Lion of Night. And the 5 Forts were built much before men in Westeros and the 1st LN. So anyway, D&D origin of the NK don't match the books.

[longest night]

5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It soothed Theon to hear it from Bran, nevertheless. Though it was stupid they didn't allow him those few seconds more to discover that his sacrifice had not been for naught.

Yes, Hodor tries to fight it, but is too simpleminded to do this. A man or woman with full mental capacity could fight skinchanging. We know that too. In the show Bran says he is the knowledge of the world. That is what it means to be 3EC.

Yes, and most men and women aren't in the seat of power of the person trying to warg them, being fed a blood sacrifice. Also, Bran's mind was taken to another point in time by the 3EC when the 3EC died which could have opened his body up to being warged.

Ever thought that the 3EC isn't exactly the most unbiased source of information? I almost think that line was a foreshadow reference to the 3EC, not that witch.

"Crows are all liars."
-Old Nan

 

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, longest night said:

Yes, and most men and women aren't in the seat of power of the person trying to warg them, being fed a blood sacrifice. Also, Bran's mind was taken to another point in time by the 3EC when the 3EC died which could have opened his body up to being warged.

Ever thought that the 3EC isn't exactly the most unbiased source of information? I almost think that line was a foreshadow reference to the 3EC, not that witch.

"Crows are all liars."
-Old Nan

 

Truth is truth, not lies.

[sweetsunray]

8 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Because Daenerys would go mad anyway and she must be stopped. If not mad now, sooner than her father anyway.

And Bran has no anger for Jaime or Theon because otherwise they all would not be at the place they had to be to save the day. Even if with D&D, everyone but Arya seemed useless.

I don't think the old gods (possibly aka the weirwood network) are the Maiden of Light and the Lion of Night. And the 5 Forts were built much before men in Westeros and the 1st LN. So anyway, D&D origin of the NK don't match the books.

This. And let's not forget that Children of the Forest speak the True tongue, aka the truth, and sing a Song of Earth.

[longest night]

7 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Because Daenerys would go mad anyway and she must be stopped. If not mad now, sooner than her father anyway.

And Bran has no anger for Jaime or Theon because otherwise they all would not be at the place they had to be to save the day. Even if with D&D, everyone but Arya seemed useless.

That's not necessarily true. Even circumstances led Aerys from being a touched person with grandiose plans to stark raving mad. Much as circumstances led Daenerys to what she became. Circumstances the 3EC actively had a part in.

[Nightwish]

29 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Because Daenerys would go mad anyway and she must be stopped. If not mad now, sooner than her father anyway.

 

Right so if he can see so far away why didn't he see NK getting the dragon? Or didn't see that the wall can not fall unless they get a dragon? Or didn't see that by all means John needed to stay away from Dany so the NK wouldn't get the dragon? Or anyway the NK was his main arc and he didn't know anything but we are to believe that he is Dany's private fortune teller?

[BalerionTheCat]

13 minutes ago, longest night said:

That's not necessarily true. Even circumstances led Aerys from being a touched person with grandiose plans to stark raving mad. Much as circumstances led Daenerys to what she became. Circumstances the 3EC actively had a part in.

Maybe without Duskendale Aerys would never have been that mad. The fact is, Daenerys was not fit for ruling. You don't give the atomic bomb to someone who could, under some circumstance, become mad.

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

38 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Which heroes would be alive, happy and strong if they did not know?

Apologies varys,missandei, jorah gave died...debatable heroes for sure

What I mean is dany/Jon would be married and the realm united...

There is such a fine line to this arguement and if the 3er is evil then he struck the Jack pot when Sam came to WINTERfell.

Question for u - if bran had died from the fall...blood raven still in the cave...how wpuld things be different ?

[BalerionTheCat]

3 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Right so if he can see so far away why didn't he see NK getting the dragon?

No need to read the future. The obsession of bending the knee and burning people rather than caring for what they want was enough.

[Nightwish]

 

7 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

No need to read the future. The obsession of bending the knee and burning people rather than caring for what they want was enough.

 

Quote

Because Daenerys would go mad anyway and she must be stopped. If not mad now, sooner than her father anyway.

Please don't force your opinion for Dany on Bran. He never said such a thing.

Either he sees her madness in the future or he doesn't. So either he sees also the NK with a dragon or doesn't. Either he knows everything or doesn't know a thing. 

[sweetsunray]

Just now, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

Apologies varys,missandei, jorah gave died...debatable heroes for sure

What I mean is dany/Jon would be married and the realm united...

There is such a fine line to this arguement and if the 3er is evil then he struck the Jack pot when Sam came to WINTERfell.

Question for u - if bran had died from the fall...blood raven still in the cave...how wpuld things be different ?

Varys would have turned on Dany eventually without knowing Jon's parentage. Jon Snow as KitN making alliances, as Ned Stark's son, and then married to Dany would have been enough for him.

Missandei was killed by Cersei. Nothing Jon or Dany knew or didn't know would have changed that.

Jorah died fighting wights to protect her. Nothing Jon or Dany knew or didn't know about the ToJ would have changed that.

All these things would have happened anyway. And her reactions to it would have alienated Jon anyhow.

Heck, Sam would have told Jon eventually. He was determined to tell Jon and the Starks about Lyanna being married to Rhaegar, and the Starks would have figured it out. And Dany had killed the Tarlys already anyway, so Sam would always have grievances against her.

To the last question: somebody would have done stupid stuff anyway, getting a lot of people killed North of the Wall, and Mel would end up damaging the wall while using fire magic or something. We know for sure that in the books the Others won't come through the wall because of acquiring a dragon. Fire & Blood established that dragons refuse to fly across the wall. And yet, the Wall will be breached, most likely by Mel using blood & fire magic at Castle Black. A lot of stuff happened and would still have happened if Bran hadn't climbed that day or had never woken up. Ned Stark was going to go South and investigate Jon Arryn's death, discover Cersei's secret and confront her with it. Etc, etc.

[sweetsunray]

4 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

 

 

Please don't force your opinion for Dany on Bran. He never said such a thing.

Either he sees her madness in the future or he doesn't. So either he sees also the NK with a dragon or doesn't. Either he knows everything or doesn't know a thing. 

There doesn't need to be an absolute "everything or nothing". Mel can see the future as does Ghost of High Heart, but it's only glimpses.

[BalerionTheCat]

7 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Please don't force your opinion for Dany on Bran. He never said such a thing.

You could see what any of the Starks, Davos or Varys, even Tyrion saw of Daenerys.

BTW, Mance was the rightest of the kings of the story. He cared for his people. He chose to burn rather than doing a thing his people didn't want. Absolute opposite of Daenerys who don't care of what other want.

[Nightwish]

4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

There doesn't need to be an absolute "everything or nothing". Mel can see the future as does Ghost of High Heart, but it's only glimpses.

Mel is not a 3eyeRaven. 

But to answer myself, no I don't think that Bran can see any of these, neither can see Dany's future, neither can see the NK passing the wall with a dragon. 

He is just another character poorly used by the writers to move the plot.

Quote

You could see what any of the Starks, Davos or Varys, even Tyrion saw of Daenerys.

Your timeline is not correct since Bran told to Sam that John needed to know about his lineage when they were still traveling.  So he hadn't seen Dany in person to form an opinion. 

Starks hadn't meet yet. Davos had no bad opinion of her in the Dragon Stone. Varys was still loyal. Tyrion was also there (despite his awful judgements). 

[sweetsunray]

11 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Your timeline is not correct since Bran told to Sam that John needed to know about his lineage when they were still traveling.  So he hadn't seen Dany in person to form an opinion. 

Starks hadn't meet yet. Davos had no bad opinion of her in the Dragon Stone. Varys was still loyal. Tyrion was also there (despite his awful judgements). 

And? Dany had already burned the Tarlys, which would affect Sam. Bran could have seen all the things she did in Essos, aside from freeing slaves, how she is willing to feed people she actually believed to be innocent to her dragons, how she promised to burn down Qarth if her dragons had been big enough just for not wanting to open their gates to her.

And if didn't know it, Bran still had no reason to keep this secret from Jon. None. I don't recall people arguing for Bran to keep his mouth shut about it before the start of s8. A majority of viewers believed it would sweeten the deal, claiming above all that it wouldn't be any issue whatsoever for either of them, and there would be this magic boatsexbaby, and happy ever after.

[Nightwish]

15 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And? Dany had already burned the Tarlys, which would affect Sam. Bran could have seen all the things she did in Essos, aside from freeing slaves, how she is willing to feed people she actually believed to be innocent to her dragons, how she promised to burn down Qarth if her dragons had been big enough just for not wanting to open their gates to her.

You say...this is not in the script, nothing supports it, plus nothing of the above are actions of madness. So please stop translating everything as Bran's reading.  

Bran said nothing about Dany to Sam which would hint he knows anything about her so he has to tell John to save him from a danger. It was actually the opposite. Bran pushed Jon with his letter to ask so urgently for Dany's help. 

Plus it's really funny to think that the script writers would  use Bran (which can not be proven by script) to warn John for Dany's madness, when he doesn't even know the NK can't pass the wall, when that's his main arc, the fight against others, and he spend so much time both as Bran and as a Raven on their side.