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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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2 hours ago, Error-504 said:

No it won't happen. You started this nonsense over on Reddit and got shouted down, now you want to bring your clown act over here. And when it doesn't happen on the show, you will say, "well it will happen in the books". Pfffft. Not going to happen, period. 

hummm, I am still on reddit.

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2 hours ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

I don't care about foreshadowings. I love Jon Snow very much and I want every woman in the show to end in his harem at the end of the show, even dead ones, even Cersei. Why do you think there is unique eunuch character in the show? Varys will rule Jon's harem.

Not likely to happen in the show.

But in legends, (some of it must be true I believe), there was the God-on-Earth:

Quote

the only begotten son of the Lion of Night and Maiden-Made-of-Light, who traveled about his domains in a palanquin carved from a single pearl and carried by a hundred queens, his wives.

I believe Jon, the Song of Ice and Fire, the promised prince, is another son of the Lion of Night and Maiden-Made-of-Light.

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Jesus, this talk about Jon/Sansa is so tiring. Besides the fact that it's not going to happen, why does Sansa need to end up with anybody at all? Who said that? And no offense but I think a lot of this shipping comes from people who really hate Dany and are grasping at straws.

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I find the shipping thing a sad state of affairs. And not just for this show/book, any show/book ever. Since the invention of social media it's brought out the crazies. Same goes for character stans who take it as far as threatening the actors themselves.

I don't know what it says about the GoT/aSoIaF fandom that Sansa's only prospects are incest or pedophilia ships. What is it with people?

What drives people who ship her with Sandor or Tyrion? Or even Jamie and Petyr. Or hell I've even seen Tywin and Stannis. Do you hate the girl that much to want her shackled to a pedo? No one thinks about raping a 12 year old or marries one who isn't a pedo. Petyr clearly is too but for very twisted reasons.

Going the incest way isn't any better. SR, Edmure, Jon? Seriously?

The only thing I ship Sansa with as far as the show goes, is happiness. I don't think when the show ends there will be a dire need for political marriages. What makes Sansa happy, she should do. If that's being Lady of WF, running the castle and taking care of what little is left of the people after the wars...that's what she should do. If she becomes Queen in the North, same thing. And if she meets a guy down the line, no matter his social status, whom she likes/loves and marries, then so be it. The one thing Sansa hasn't had during the entire show is love and that's the only reason I would want her to marry for. I'd rather see her with someone like Pod or Gendry, though I'm sure the latter is marked for Arya, who are lovable guys. The likes of Sandor and Tyrion have nothing to offer her as people, not romantically anyway, and they are way too exhausting.

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41 minutes ago, Mystical said:

(...)The likes of Sandor and Tyrion have nothing to offer her as people, not romantically anyway, and they are way too exhausting.

I beg to differ Ser. Show Sansa was married to a show monster (Ramsay), so either Sandor or Tyrion who (TV show) both demonstrated some real affection and respect for her would be a huge improvement in her love life.

And politically, Tyrion makes a lot of sense, especially if you believe in AJT (I do, in the books at least). So far, the two of them have proved to be the best fit for political leadership - because they like it for a start, and what would be better than a Stark / Lannister - with a drop (or two) of Targaryen blood, marriage to unite the 7k and conclude the Song? If like me you believe that Dany and Jon's relationship is somewhat doomed by their "Save the World of the Living" 's responsibility, S+T would be a hell of a bittersweet ending...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mystical said:

I find the shipping thing a sad state of affairs. And not just for this show/book, any show/book ever. Since the invention of social media it's brought out the crazies. Same goes for character stans who take it as far as threatening the actors themselves.

I don't know what it says about the GoT/aSoIaF fandom that Sansa's only prospects are incest or pedophilia ships. What is it with people?

What drives people who ship her with Sandor or Tyrion? Or even Jamie and Petyr. Or hell I've even seen Tywin and Stannis. Do you hate the girl that much to want her shackled to a pedo? No one thinks about raping a 12 year old or marries one who isn't a pedo. Petyr clearly is too but for very twisted reasons.

Going the incest way isn't any better. SR, Edmure, Jon? Seriously?

The only thing I ship Sansa with as far as the show goes, is happiness. I don't think when the show ends there will be a dire need for political marriages. What makes Sansa happy, she should do. If that's being Lady of WF, running the castle and taking care of what little is left of the people after the wars...that's what she should do. If she becomes Queen in the North, same thing. And if she meets a guy down the line, no matter his social status, whom she likes/loves and marries, then so be it. The one thing Sansa hasn't had during the entire show is love and that's the only reason I would want her to marry for. I'd rather see her with someone like Pod or Gendry, though I'm sure the latter is marked for Arya, who are lovable guys. The likes of Sandor and Tyrion have nothing to offer her as people, not romantically anyway, and they are way too exhausting.

Sansa is introduced as the one Stark kid who is inclined to leave her family behind, and even betray them, to reach her dream. A heavy price is paid for it when her dire wolf is killed. Jon leaves, but for recognition and acceptation (how that will change now in S8 when revealed to be Targaryen heir). 

Then she ends up with everyone in her family « dead », except Jon. She is « stolen » and raised by Littlefinger, who means to use others to reach his dream.

When she finally reunites with Arya and Bran, and Bran reveals LF’s plotting, she has him executed, but clearly says she has learned from him.

So I don’t think happiness is in store for her, but I do think she has come to realize that her protection and future is as a Stark, a ruler, not someone else’s maid, and she is willing to manipulate others to do so.

She might become queen, it will be a far cry from what she dreamed it would be when she left for King’s Landing, but she will have learned what she should have known thanks to her interactions with Cersei and Littlefinger.

Edited by NonoNono

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Posted (edited)

I dont think Sansa needs to be punished any more, she already paid dearly for trusting the Lannisters. I still think she will find a small modicum of happiness, even at the end of the story. There is no reason why she can't have a relatively good marriage match, like Cat. 

 

I also dont like the idea that she needs to "look past appearances" to be a "reward" for these gross men. At least pick a guy who is worth doing that, not a kinslaying rapist who strangles whores to death. Women are afraid of men who have murdered other women, especially their girlfriends. Sansa's safety would be at risk with Tyrion.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jô Maltese said:

I beg to differ Ser. Show Sansa was married to a show monster (Ramsay), so either Sandor or Tyrion who (TV show) both demonstrated some real affection and respect for her would be a huge improvement in her love life.

And politically, Tyrion makes a lot of sense, especially if you believe in AJT (I do, in the books at least). So far, the two of them have proved to be the best fit for political leadership - because they like it for a start, and what would be better than a Stark / Lannister - with a drop (or two) of Targaryen blood, marriage to unite the 7k and conclude the Song? If like me you believe that Dany and Jon's relationship is somewhat doomed by their "Save the World of the Living" 's responsibility, S+T would be a hell of a bittersweet ending...

So what if she was married to Ramsey? So what if Tyrion was nice to her? Sansa doesn't need Tyrion. She is Lady of Winterfell and seems to be happy to finally be her own agent. What the hell does she need Tyrion for? Nothing. And as Tyrion currently is, he would be a terrible match anyway. As far as the books go, it's even worse. This is a guy who willingly (unlike St. Tyrion of the show) married a 12 year old prisoner for political power, who had her strip and fondled her TWELVE year old body even though she didn't want it. Then complained at length that his twelve year old prisoner bride didn't act the part of wife like he wanted her to. Disgusting. And the things Tyrion has done since...unless you hate Sansa I won't ever understand why you would want her with a guy like Tyrion (and some of the other pedo guys like Sandor).

1 hour ago, NonoNono said:

Sansa is introduced as the one Stark kid who is inclined to leave her family behind, and even betray them, to reach her dream. A heavy price is paid for it when her dire wolf is killed.

So what? That was S1. We are years past that. Find a new way to support you points please. Because it has no bearing on what's happening currently. And that was Sansa's longing for home (if the snow castle of WF didn't get that point across I don't know what will). She was also the one insisting on taking back WF because that was the only place where they could go and be safe.

Actually none of your points have anything to do with what I talked about. What did reuniting with her siblings and killing LF have to do what I discussed? What does that have to do with her romantic endgame? Or what happiness means for Sansa at this point in the story?

Edited by Mystical

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Mystical said:

So what if she was married to Ramsey? So what if Tyrion was nice to her? Sansa doesn't need Tyrion. She is Lady of Winterfell and seems to be happy to finally be her own agent. What the hell does she need Tyrion for? Nothing. And as Tyrion currently is, he would be a terrible match anyway. As far as the books go, it's even worse. This is a guy who willingly (unlike St. Tyrion of the show) married a 12 year old prisoner for political power, who had her strip and fondled her TWELVE year old body even though she didn't want it. Then complained at length that his twelve year old prisoner bride didn't act the part of wife like he wanted her to. Disgusting. And the things Tyrion has done since...unless you hate Sansa I won't ever understand why you would want her with a guy like Tyrion (and some of the other pedo guys like Sandor).

So what? That was S1. We are years past that. Find a new way to support you points please. Because it has no bearing on what's happening currently. And that was Sansa's longing for home (if the snow castle of WF didn't get that point across I don't know what will). She was also the one insisting on taking back WF because that was the only place where they could go and be safe.

Actually none of your points have anything to do with what I talked about. What did reuniting with her siblings and killing LF have to do what I discussed? What does that have to do with her romantic endgame? Or what happiness means for Sansa at this point in the story?

You said she's going to happy, I just said why I think she won't be happy and that her dreams of being a happy queen are long gone by now. She has instead being shaped to deal with strife, betrayal, divisions, and find allies to support her, in a context where people constantly backstab each other or try to manipulate one another. She will marry who she must for her own ends.

Edited by NonoNono

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Posted (edited)

Why has this thread become a "Sansa marries X" thread? Can't you make a seperate thread for it? Can the moderators please intervene? This is getting anoying. 

Edited by T and A

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Mystical said:

I find the shipping thing a sad state of affairs. And not just for this show/book, any show/book ever. Since the invention of social media it's brought out the crazies. Same goes for character stans who take it as far as threatening the actors themselves.

I don't know what it says about the GoT/aSoIaF fandom that Sansa's only prospects are incest or pedophilia ships. What is it with people?

What drives people who ship her with Sandor or Tyrion? Or even Jamie and Petyr. Or hell I've even seen Tywin and Stannis. Do you hate the girl that much to want her shackled to a pedo? No one thinks about raping a 12 year old or marries one who isn't a pedo. Petyr clearly is too but for very twisted reasons.

Going the incest way isn't any better. SR, Edmure, Jon? Seriously?

The only thing I ship Sansa with as far as the show goes, is happiness. I don't think when the show ends there will be a dire need for political marriages. What makes Sansa happy, she should do. If that's being Lady of WF, running the castle and taking care of what little is left of the people after the wars...that's what she should do. If she becomes Queen in the North, same thing. And if she meets a guy down the line, no matter his social status, whom she likes/loves and marries, then so be it. The one thing Sansa hasn't had during the entire show is love and that's the only reason I would want her to marry for. I'd rather see her with someone like Pod or Gendry, though I'm sure the latter is marked for Arya, who are lovable guys. The likes of Sandor and Tyrion have nothing to offer her as people, not romantically anyway, and they are way too exhausting.

4
4

I would say the book evidence may drive them to ship Sandor and Sansa. 

Edited by Bear Claw

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27 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

I would say the book evidence may drive them to ship Sandor and Sansa. 

And what's that exactly? Sandor being the equivalent to a boy band or movie star that a girl fantasizes over? The hot movie star that you have your first wet dream about or wish you could kiss. Sandor appealed to Sansa's romantic ideal (of the protective knight) but that's not the reality of the character. That's a fantasy. A fantasy of many young girls (or boys). And Sansa is very good at repressing, such as the fact that he held a knife to her throat and wanted to rape her. Repressing his less formidable traits and actions in order to hang onto what little good she had during that point in life, well that isn't a recipe for a future relationship.

As far as the show is concerned, if SanSan was ever considered as any sort of endgame, they wouldn't have hired an actor as old as Rory. Nor would they have cut most of their interactions from the books. It would literally make no sense in the show.

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37 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

You said she's going to happy, I just said why I think she won't be happy and that her dreams of being a happy queen are long gone by now. She has instead being shaped to deal with strife, betrayal, divisions, and find allies to support her, in a context where people constantly backstab each other or try to manipulate one another. She will marry who she must for her own ends.

I thought you made a good point, and the true price for what she's done, despite having safety and power, could be not having true happiness - and it's not about 'deserve'. Also, I can't believe I've never really crystallised that thought before that she was the one Stark desperate to move on.  

4 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

Jesus, this talk about Jon/Sansa is so tiring. Besides the fact that it's not going to happen, why does Sansa need to end up with anybody at all? Who said that? And no offense but I think a lot of this shipping comes from people who really hate Dany and are grasping at straws.

It seems like its always Sansa being discussed for one reason or another - she wasn't even close to being one of the fan faves five or six years ago. Seems like her stock has really risen thanks to the last few seasons.

3 hours ago, Mystical said:

I find the shipping thing a sad state of affairs. And not just for this show/book, any show/book ever. Since the invention of social media it's brought out the crazies. Same goes for character stans who take it as far as threatening the actors themselves.

I don't know what it says about the GoT/aSoIaF fandom that Sansa's only prospects are incest or pedophilia ships. What is it with people?

People romanticise characters away from any reality, maybe that's healthier it is done with fictional people :) But I agree shipping can ruin things.

New thought. The potential spoiler about Tyrion being executed by burning - is it too much of a tin foil theory to think IF he is also a Targ there is a chance his "true" heritage could save him? Has he ever been burnt before? It would need a random scene where Bran see's the Mad King raping his mutha prior to prop it up. 

I am leaning toward Bran seeing the rest of that 'your pregnant' convo with Cersi to show Tyrion's betrayal (if that is what indeed has happened). I also think Arya, disguised as Jamie will kill Cersi. And probably the hound either to put him out of his misery after being mortally wounded by the Mountain ('you know where the heart is' call back) or after he's been turned.

On that note. I'm worried every reunion is gonna be cheapened with fan serviced with 'call backs' during character interactions rather than developing relationships with the story. I think looking back that's why some of the season 7 meet ups were so underwhelming. Compared to Jon an Sansa who had no callbacks to fall back on - the show gave us a genuine moment/development and it worked beautifully.    

 

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5 minutes ago, Mystical said:

And what's that exactly? Sandor being the equivalent to a boy band or movie star that a girl fantasizes over? The hot movie star that you have your first wet dream about or wish you could kiss. Sandor appealed to Sansa's romantic ideal (of the protective knight) but that's not the reality of the character. That's a fantasy. A fantasy of many young girls (or boys). And Sansa is very good at repressing, such as the fact that he held a knife to her throat and wanted to rape her. Repressing his less formidable traits and actions in order to hang onto what little good she had during that point in life, well that isn't a recipe for a future relationship.

As far as the show is concerned, if SanSan was ever considered as any sort of endgame, they wouldn't have hired an actor as old as Rory. Nor would they have cut most of their interactions from the books. It would literally make no sense in the show.

I don't agree with SanSan, but the reason why people ship it is because of the books. It's not like fans are making this stuff up themselves.  The show has also caused people to ship couples either intentionally or through their ineptness in my opinion. This thread is about news, spoilers, and leaks, and I would say that the interviews and promotions are certainly making a triangle of sorts out of Sansa, Jon, and Dany, so even Jonsa, in my opinion, is a topic of discussion based on the material sources. The shipping is a part of the books and show. I don't know if we should be focusing on it though? Unfortunately, I think the show has taken away many of the more interesting aspects of the story so that we really don't have too much to look forward to other than shipping. For example, I would really like to see the WW's have a real reason for their invasion, and I would like to see something about the first long night, but I don't think we will get any of that. I think this is the result of cutting out so many rich plot lines. 

 

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Posted (edited)

This is one of those rare shows where shipping actually matters to the plot because marriages are a big deal for politics, and duty vs. love is a theme. Marriage decisions also help characterize. So if Jon marries Dany I think it undermines everything the author has done to craft Jon as different, not just from all the other men who Dany meets (they all fall at her feet in adoration?), but different from other Targaryens. If he's just going to go full Targaryen by marrying one, he might as well have been raised in Essos with uncle Viserys and aunt Dany. I also think Dany's morality doesn't fit Jon's. So shipping is relevant to the story. But if you want I will create a Who Will Sansa Marry thread.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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Posted (edited)

I wonder if people will even believe Jon is a Targ. His bastardy is a big deal, and now that Dany is pregnant, if people don't believe he isn't a bastard, that would weight on him: "even if I'm not a bastard, people don't believe it", he would HAVE to make his marriage to her official to make sure his child doesn't end up with that burden. He wouldn't marry her because he think it's great and what he wants, but he would do it because he is still seen himself as a bastard and wants to do the right thing for his child, but obviously the implications could lead to creating a division with his family if they feel Dany is a threat to the north or their house.

Edited by NonoNono

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29 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

I wonder if people will even believe Jon is a Targ. His bastardy is a big deal, and now that Dany is pregnant, if people don't believe he isn't a bastard, that would weight on him: "even if I'm not a bastard, people don't believe it", he would HAVE to make his marriage to her official to make sure his child doesn't end up with that burden. He wouldn't marry her because he think it's great and what he wants, but he would do it because he is still seen himself as a bastard and wants to do the right thing for his child, but obviously the implications could lead to creating a division with his family if they feel Dany is a threat to the north or their house.

Why are yo so caught up in people not believing Jon? His claim has the backing of the books in the Citadel, which is thought of as law in these matters in Westeros. 

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42 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

This is one of those rare shows where shipping actually matters to the plot because marriages are a big deal for politics, and duty vs. love is a theme.

It was. But no more.

Some people are lords, because they are the heirs of heroes and great warriors of legends. If the Long Night (can't be that long with only six episodes) and the war for Dawn reach all Westeros, then the winners will be the new heroes and lords. Whatever their status before.

Neither Jon nor anyone else will need to marry someone of the old order, to get his new status.

47 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I also think Dany's morality doesn't fit Jon's. So shipping is relevant to the story.

Agreed. Who marry Jon is important.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Why are yo so caught up in people not believing Jon? His claim has the backing of the books in the Citadel, which is thought of as law in these matters in Westeros. 

Does Sam have the book? Nope. It was in a septon's private diary which Sam transcribed. He does not have it. They will have to rely on Bran and Sam's word.

3 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

It was. But no more.

Some people are lords, because they are the heirs of heroes and great warriors of legends. If the Long Night (can't be that long with only six episodes) and the war for Dawn reach all Westeros, then the winners will be the new heroes and lords. Whatever their status before.

Neither Jon nor anyone else will need to marry someone of the old order, to get his new status.

Agreed. Who marry Jon is important.

The last book is titled A Dream of Spring. I don't believe winter will be over by the end of the book. People will hold onto "a dream of spring", hoping it will return, as the north remains snowed in. There is no sign of a long night returning, just winter.

I believe winter moves south, and stops at a new wall.

Edited by NonoNono

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5 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Some people are lords, because they are the heirs of heroes and great warriors of legends. If the Long Night (can't be that long with only six episodes) and the war for Dawn reach all Westeros, then the winners will be the new heroes and lords. Whatever their status before.

I have a different perspective than most, I think Jon and Dany are firmly entrenched in the politics and won't be traditional heroes. I think they'll fulfill the second Dance, more or less as political adversaries, just like every other Targaryen in the past. Prophecy is talked about around them but I dont think either will fulfill a prophecy to be a savior to the entire realm. Mainly because Targaryens (Aemon, Rhaegar) and fire cultists think that this is what will happen. There is no twist that way. I think the only legendary warrior/hero we have in the story is Bran.

 

 

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