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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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39 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

2)  Cersei captures Jon Snow somehow (maybe when she kills Rhaegal, which is also part of the leak).  Dany does something reckless to save him:  Meet with Cersei.  Tyrion throws his pin down in disgust, Cersei will clearly kill her.  Dany locks both Tyrion and Drogon up to prevent them from interfering.  There was a scene from the trailer where Drogon looked to be in a very dark room, which gives me some hope Dany locks him up instead of unleashing him.  Dany meets with Cersei and, predictably, Cersei poisons Dany with the Long Farewell.  Skin contact is all one needs for that poison to work. 

Here is Tyrion's treason:  He gets out of his cell (Varys) and frees Drogon (like he once did Rhaegal and Viserion).  Tyrion is the treason for love.  He lets a dragon loose on KL to save Dany from Cersei.  He finally is the "monster" everyone in KL thought him to be.  Enough "poison" for all them...he'd trade his life to see it.  

Drogon senses his Mother is dying and goes absolutely ballistic.  He burns everything in his path to her, including civilians.  Eventually a poisoned Dany makes her way to the Throne Room, she sees Jon Snow (probably freed from the dungeons by Arya in a S1 Ned parallel), then she starts bleeding like Myrcella once did.  The angry people storming the Red Keep are actually trying to save Dany, not kill her like the leaker concluded. 

I think you grasping at straws here. Tyrion quits because danny decides to meet cersei? People think tyrion betrayed them because he releases drogon? Danny can t comand drogon to stay away while she talks to cersei? How does danny walk freely to the throne? why doesn t drogon fly directly to the throne room? Are they still fighting for people to be shooting drogon?

I find it more logical (so probably not likely) that it goes something like this:

In ep 4 jamie is killed by bronn. So tyrion is angry and want to destroy KL and cersei with it. Danny is still good at this point and doesn t want to harm the peole in KL so she imprisons tyrion.

Later cersei has some plan to kill danny, however danny survives and missandei is killed instead (no idea if rhaegal also dies because didn t read anything in the leaks regardin rhaegal).

Danny goes aerys crazy and releases tyrion so that he can burn KL (therefore the betrayal from the stark pov). The unsulied go crazy because greyworm goes crazy with revenge.

The battle is won and jon is disgusted with what danny did. He kills her because he thinks she isn t fit to be queen and is afraid she would burn/kill all who don t kneel to her.

Wether it is good or bad at least is logical...

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8 minutes ago, divica said:

I think you grasping at straws here. Tyrion quits because danny decides to meet cersei? People think tyrion betrayed them because he releases drogon? Danny can t comand drogon to stay away while she talks to cersei? How does danny walk freely to the throne? why doesn t drogon fly directly to the throne room? Are they still fighting for people to be shooting drogon?

I find it more logical (so probably not likely) that it goes something like this:

In ep 4 jamie is killed by bronn. So tyrion is angry and want to destroy KL and cersei with it. Danny is still good at this point and doesn t want to harm the peole in KL so she imprisons tyrion.

Later cersei has some plan to kill danny, however danny survives and missandei is killed instead (no idea if rhaegal also dies because didn t read anything in the leaks regardin rhaegal).

Danny goes aerys crazy and releases tyrion so that he can burn KL (therefore the betrayal from the stark pov). The unsulied go crazy because greyworm goes crazy with revenge.

The battle is won and jon is disgusted with what danny did. He kills her because he thinks she isn t fit to be queen and is afraid she would burn/kill all who don t kneel to her.

Wether it is good or bad at least is logical...

Jaime dies holding Cersei in his arms in the Red Keep while the dragon destroys the building on top of them according to the leaker.

Another leaker, who was legit for S7, just said that Jaime has sex with Brienne in E4 (and that both Rhaegal and Missandei die in E4)...so I don't know why Jaime would go back to Cersei, but it's what the apparently legit afraidpost says...

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2 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Jaime dies holding Cersei in his arms in the Red Keep while the dragon destroys the building on top of them according to the leaker.

Another leaker, who was legit for S7, just said that Jaime has sex with Brienne in E4 (and that both Rhaegal and Missandei die in E4)...so I don't know why Jaime would go back to Cersei, but it's what the apparently legit afraidpost says…

ok. some of the leakers must be wrong… 

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Just now, divica said:

ok. some of the leakers must be wrong… 

The Rhaegal/Missandei info matches up for both leakers just fine...it's the Jaime bit I don't get.  He sleeps with Brienne in E4, but then goes to die with Cersei in E5?  Doesn't really make sense, but who knows with D&D.

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2 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

I think that afraidparts leaks are the best ones.  But he doesn't have sound in the scenes he saw and is missing chunks, so it's possible that he simply misinterpreted what is going on in some scenes (like he thought Jon killed Viserion because the dragon dropped dead while Jon was next to it, an easy mistake to make if you lack sound and are missing scenes). 

So I see two scenarios for E5 based on afraid's leaks:

1)  Dany really does go berserk after Rhaegal and Missandei's deaths.  Tyrion throws his pin down in disgust because she's about to unleash a wave of destruction on KL.  Jon eventually puts her down....words cannot describe how I much I would detest this ending.  This entire story would be ruined for me.  I couldn't even bring myself to read Winds if it ever came out knowing the story is heading to this awful place.  

2)  Cersei captures Jon Snow somehow (maybe when she kills Rhaegal, which is also part of the leak).  Dany does something reckless to save him:  Meet with Cersei.  Tyrion throws his pin down in disgust, Cersei will clearly kill her.  Dany locks both Tyrion and Drogon up to prevent them from interfering.  There was a scene from the trailer where Drogon looked to be in a very dark room, which gives me some hope Dany locks him up instead of unleashing him.  Dany meets with Cersei and, predictably, Cersei poisons Dany with the Long Farewell.  Skin contact is all one needs for that poison to work.

Here is Tyrion's treason:  He gets out of his cell (Varys) and frees Drogon (like he once did Rhaegal and Viserion).  Tyrion is the treason for love.  He lets a dragon loose on KL to save Dany from Cersei.  He finally is the "monster" everyone in KL thought him to be.  Enough "poison" for all them...he'd trade his life to see it.  

Drogon senses his Mother is dying and goes absolutely ballistic.  He burns everything in his path to her, including civilians.  Eventually a poisoned Dany makes her way to the Throne Room, she sees Jon Snow (probably freed from the dungeons by Arya in a S1 Ned parallel), then she starts bleeding like Myrcella once did.  The angry people storming the Red Keep are actually trying to save Dany, not kill her like the leaker concluded. 

Drogon literally rips the roof off the Red Keep, melts the Iron Throne and flies away with Dany's corpse.  This would explain why Drogon doesn't kill Jon Snow too (Drogon leaving Jon alone after he stabbed Dany makes absolutely no sense to me if we get version 1).  I think this scenario also better explains why Dany would even be on the ground at all instead of mounted on Drogon if she was willfully unleashing him on the city.   

The Long Farewell has a cure...so maybe Dany can live, IDK, but I think Drogon will die from the wounds he receives (like his namesake) while attacking KL.  He will probably be hit by several scorpion bolts.  Dragons and WWs both die out in this story. 

All those spiral/alpha/omega symbols of both ice and fire the show has given us, and Bran's visions?  They were pointing towards the theme that the Dragons were just as dangerous to humanity as the WWs.  For different reasons, they will have unleashed a similar amount of devastation on Westeros by the end. 

I'm desperately hoping scenario 2 is the real one, because I find it far more true the themes of the books.  Dany saw herself as Rhaegar in one dream sequence, she's been targeted by poisoning several times, she's always trying to be a rescuer...it makes far more sense to me that she would die for love rather than go Mad Queen.

I also think it fits better with some things GRRM has said in interviews.  To him, Ice is cold inhumanity, revenge (the show NK).  Fire is passion, love (Dany, Drogon and even Tyrion in scenario 2).  He's also brought up the Robert Frost poem which says Fire and Ice are both capable of destroying the world.  

I don't know about the rest, but I've always thought the bolded must happen for the seasons to return to normality. 

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Just now, Ser Quork said:

I don't know about the rest, but I've always thought the bolded must happen for the seasons to return to normality. 

I always hated that idea lol.

I mean, we start the story without magic, then magic starts to rise only for the story to end with no magic again...

It always sounded silly to me.

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21 minutes ago, divica said:

I always hated that idea lol.

I mean, we start the story without magic, then magic starts to rise only for the story to end with no magic again...

It always sounded silly to me.

The Others are the very first scene, book & show though. I may well be wrong, but I've always thought that magic will die out of the world.

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1 minute ago, Ser Quork said:

The Others are the very first scene, book & show though. I may well be wrong, but I've always thought that magic will die out of the world.

Men dont have magic. Like south of the Wall the dragons are dead, wargs are legends, the pyromancers are liars… And then we have dragons being born, the starks being wargs, the pyromancers start having powers, beric returns to life several times...

To me it always felt like a story that started with 0 magic and that slowly magic returns to the world so that they can fight the ww who also kind of only become active around the time the series starts (otherwise the wildlings should have tried to come south of the Wall much earlier).

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4 minutes ago, divica said:

Men dont have magic. Like south of the Wall the dragons are dead, wargs are legends, the pyromancers are liars… And then we have dragons being born, the starks being wargs, the pyromancers start having powers, beric returns to life several times...

To me it always felt like a story that started with 0 magic and that slowly magic returns to the world so that they can fight the ww who also kind of only become active around the time the series starts (otherwise the wildlings should have tried to come south of the Wall much earlier).

I think the idea is that ice magic and fire magic exist in a sort of yin-yang relationship. There HAD been magic thousands of years ago but apart from strange rumours about Asshai at the edge of Essos, it was believed that magic, along with Others and Dragons had disappeared from the world. Something triggered its reawakening in the decades before the GoT story opens - the books will explore the source, but the TV show skips it. It does seem that the R'hallor religion is new and emerged at the same time as the Others awoke. It makes sense that ice magic, fire magic together with dragons will disappear from the world at the conclusion of the story.

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1 minute ago, House Cambodia said:

I think the idea is that ice magic and fire magic exist in a sort of yin-yang relationship. There HAD been magic thousands of years ago but apart from strange rumours about Asshai at the edge of Essos, it was believed that magic, along with Others and Dragons had disappeared from the world. Something triggered its reawakening in the decades before the GoT story opens - the books will explore the source, but the TV show skips it. It does seem that the R'hallor religion is new and emerged at the same time as the Others awoke. It makes sense that ice magic, fire magic together with dragons will disappear from the world at the conclusion of the story.

But the dragons have only gone extinct for less than 2 centuries. They didn t disapear at the same time as the first long night. And probably there were wargs long after the ww were defeated the first time.

There is nothing that ties magic to the ww. On the other hand I have no idea when r'hllor comes from but if they are an onld religion they should be referenced in awoiaf or fire and blood...

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3 minutes ago, divica said:

But the dragons have only gone extinct for less than 2 centuries. They didn t disapear at the same time as the first long night. And probably there were wargs long after the ww were defeated the first time.

There is nothing that ties magic to the ww. On the other hand I have no idea when r'hllor comes from but if they are an onld religion they should be referenced in awoiaf or fire and blood...

The TV show hasn't bothered to make much of the backstory clear. Warging is connected to the CotF, not 'magic'. The relationship of Others and dragons to magic is very unclear, but the prophecies appear to make connections.   I think we'll need to wait for tWOW for further clarity.

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11 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

The TV show hasn't bothered to make much of the backstory clear. Warging is connected to the CotF, not 'magic'. The relationship of Others and dragons to magic is very unclear, but the prophecies appear to make connections.   I think we'll need to wait for tWOW for further clarity.

Agreed.  And don't the CotF say that they/greenseers and the Direwolves will soon die out?  I can't remember the quote exactly, but I'm sure it's mentioned in the books.

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27 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

I think the idea is that ice magic and fire magic exist in a sort of yin-yang relationship. There HAD been magic thousands of years ago but apart from strange rumours about Asshai at the edge of Essos, it was believed that magic, along with Others and Dragons had disappeared from the world. Something triggered its reawakening in the decades before the GoT story opens - the books will explore the source, but the TV show skips it. It does seem that the R'hallor religion is new and emerged at the same time as the Others awoke. It makes sense that ice magic, fire magic together with dragons will disappear from the world at the conclusion of the story.

Does this mean that Bran will also have to die?  Or does the 3ER always exist even in the absence of all other magic? If his magic will also die out, it'll make all the sacrifices made to protect him seem rather pointless... 

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1 minute ago, Red Dragon10 said:

Does this mean that Bran will also have to die?  Or does the 3ER always exist even in the absence of all other magic? If his magic will also die out, it'll make all the sacrifices made to protect him seem rather pointless... 

As Ser Quork says, it' implied the CotF die out, so I suspect that will include Bran. Those sacrifices, Jojen, Benjen etc all brought him to the point where he lured out the NK so Arya could destroy him, so it wasn't in vain. But this is more likely to be in the books than the show, I think.

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52 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Agreed.  And don't the CotF say that they/greenseers and the Direwolves will soon die out?  I can't remember the quote exactly, but I'm sure it's mentioned in the books.

The direwolves will last the longest, but will disappear too Leaf foresees. There is no place for them in the world of humans.

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5 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

The Rhaegal/Missandei info matches up for both leakers just fine...it's the Jaime bit I don't get.  He sleeps with Brienne in E4, but then goes to die with Cersei in E5?  Doesn't really make sense, but who knows with D&D.

Maybe the sex wasn't good?

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Posted (edited)

The leaks sound pretty dire to me.

I mean the show has built up this idea of "women in power", yet it seems Mad Cersei will be killed and then the male protagonist will kill the female protagonist for being too emotional to rule. The kingdom will then be ruled by King Bran and his council of men. Political genius Sansa may be permitted to rule a frozen wasteland with a population of 5 if she is lucky and Jon doesn't want it. Yay! 

Edited by Amaretto

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22 minutes ago, Amaretto said:

The leaks sound pretty dire to me.

I mean the show has built up this idea of "women in power", yet it seems Mad Cersei will be killed and then the male protagonist will kill the female protagonist for being too emotional to rule. The kingdom will then be ruled by King Bran and his council of men. Political genius Sansa may be permitted to rule a frozen wasteland with a population of 5 if she is lucky and Jon doesn't want it. Yay! 

The first six seasons focused on male villains. It's only in the final season that we're getting two female villains and Euron. Since these past two seasons have had mostly women in positions of power, it makes sense that they'd be the ones in a position to do what other men have done in the show. The North and the Iron Islands will be ruled by women at the end of the series which is historically unprecedented. Arya, a woman, killed the NK and saved humanity. Brienne just became the first female knight in Westeros.

King's Landing won't have a singular ruler and the leaks about Bran being king are dubious at best since others suggest there won't be a King or Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at the end. These leaks also claim that Bronn of all people will be on the council.

The show has made plenty of misogynistic choices, but I don't see how these, in particular, are misogynistic when we've had like two dozen male villains in the show. The only outright villain who happens to be a woman is Cersei. Lysa was just insane. 

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1 hour ago, Amaretto said:

The leaks sound pretty dire to me.

I mean the show has built up this idea of "women in power", yet it seems Mad Cersei will be killed and then the male protagonist will kill the female protagonist for being too emotional to rule. The kingdom will then be ruled by King Bran and his council of men. Political genius Sansa may be permitted to rule a frozen wasteland with a population of 5 if she is lucky and Jon doesn't want it. Yay! 

The show made the executive decision to go the route of girl power. They prolonged roles of female character and left out male characters. Nothing like that is reflected in the books. It's far more grounded in reality of the time. People have long theorized they put such a heavy emphasis on it because they knew what was coming with Daenerys and they wanted to try to reduce the blowback as much as possible.

Jon will be king, though he won't want the crown.

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Jesus Yeshua from Nazareth Azor Ahai Christ! IF any of the spoilers are true, than the good guys have actually lost last episode. The Night King was the true Hero of the story. F***, I hope all of the leaks are fake, because ... The alternative is horrible.

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