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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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George's comments about Jon being a "fire wight" also makes me question if he'll have any children in the books. Resurrection has major consequences in the books, and it seems unlikely that someone who is undead would be able to bear children. 

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On 02.04.2018 at 3:25 AM, jcmontea said:

But we know from watchers on the wall that the lannisters are going North.

Maybe those Lannister soldiers, that went to The North, are Lannister troops, that were garrisoned in Riverlands. So Jaime, on his way to Winterfell, will be passing thru Twins, where those troops are. He will reveal to them information about upcoming threat of the Undead Army. And they will join him, on his journey north, because, as we have seen from Arya's encounter with those soldiers - they are average people. One of them just recently became a father, and he doesn't even know, whether his child is a boy, or a girl. And the other one, joined the army, because he wanted to provide for his elderly mother (or something like that). So they will go and fight against the undead, for the sake of their families. Thus - Lannister soldiers in The North and in Wintefell, fighting against someone, doesn't necessary mean, that they were sent there by Cersei, or that they are fighting there against Starks and Dany's people.

Though, I haven't seen actual photos, with those Lannister troops, fighting VS someone in Winterfell, so I may be wrong.

Edited by Megorova

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On 4/2/2018 at 3:29 PM, a black swan said:

Oh, this is a very good point. Can you expound on it? It could defintely point to either Jon or Arya continuing the Stark line? The least likely two of the bunch. The irony!

If you look over AWOIAF, you'll notice the few times a Targaryen heir without the signature family looks was poised to take the throne, he conveniently died or was otherwise rendered incapable of succeeding his father. Baelor Breakspear resembled his dark-featured mother, as did Duncan Targaryen. The former was killed in an accident, the latter abdicated in order to marry a common woman. Their more traditional looking  brothers ended up continuing the royal line. 

The result of these unhappy coincidences was that the "family looks" passed on to the next generation. Hence, by the time we get to Dany, Viserys and Rhaegar's generation, the Targaryens still look like Targaryens. 

We don't know as much about other Great Houses in terms of the family tree, but I'd be willing to bet there was never a dark-haired Lannister Lord of Casterly Rock, and likewise with a blond, blue-eyed Lord of Winterfell. 

It's just a pattern, is all. Whether or not you agree this might indicate the Stark line passing through Arya or Jon rather than their Tully-looking siblings is subjective, of course. But I do think it's an interesting kind of mythology that has been built up-- Stark looks are so characteristic that they've been passed on for thousands of years. Adding onto that, Jon and Arya are the only Stark kids whose wolves are alive in the show. 

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12 minutes ago, Lysander said:

If you look over AWOIAF, you'll notice the few times a Targaryen heir without the signature family looks was poised to take the throne, he conveniently died or was otherwise rendered incapable of succeeding his father. Baelor Breakspear resembled his dark-featured mother, as did Duncan Targaryen. The former was killed in an accident, the latter abdicated in order to marry a common woman. Their more traditional looking  brothers ended up continuing the royal line. 

The result of these unhappy coincidences was that the "family looks" passed on to the next generation. Hence, by the time we get to Dany, Viserys and Rhaegar's generation, the Targaryens still look like Targaryens. 

We don't know as much about other Great Houses in terms of the family tree, but I'd be willing to bet there was never a dark-haired Lannister Lord of Casterly Rock, and likewise with a blond, blue-eyed Lord of Winterfell. 

It's just a pattern, is all. Whether or not you agree this might indicate the Stark line passing through Arya or Jon rather than their Tully-looking siblings is subjective, of course. But I do think it's an interesting kind of mythology that has been built up-- Stark looks are so characteristic that they've been passed on for thousands of years. Adding onto that, Jon and Arya are the only Stark kids whose wolves are alive in the show. 

That is an interesting pattern.  A lot of the great houses have this pattern.  Personally I think because of the wars that happened in Westeros in the last 30 years and the devastation that came with these wars, that this pattern will be broken.  Usually during and after a big war things change.  If you want to use a real world example the Habsburg Empire, the German monarchy, the Russian monarchy and the Ottoman Empire were gone after World War 1.  Already on the show the Tyrells and the Martells are no more (and the legitimate Baratheons).

I actually find it more interesting that Sansa, the Tully looking Stark, rules the North instead of her Stark looking sister and cousin.  Just because there is a pattern in the past doesn't mean that the pattern will continue in the future.

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On 05/04/2018 at 0:16 AM, goldenmaps said:

That is an interesting pattern.  A lot of the great houses have this pattern.  Personally I think because of the wars that happened in Westeros in the last 30 years and the devastation that came with these wars, that this pattern will be broken.  Usually during and after a big war things change.  If you want to use a real world example the Habsburg Empire, the German monarchy, the Russian monarchy and the Ottoman Empire were gone after World War 1.  Already on the show the Tyrells and the Martells are no more (and the legitimate Baratheons).

I actually find it more interesting that Sansa, the Tully looking Stark, rules the North instead of her Stark looking sister and cousin.  Just because there is a pattern in the past doesn't mean that the pattern will continue in the future.

Regarding that last bit: That's D&D writing what they want. George related the show writing to "licensed fanfiction". Thankfully, D&D will revert back to George's book ending for S8. 

What @Lysander is pointing out is George's desire to maintain bloodlines true to House traditions. There have been MANY wars and rebellions before now. This is not the first Long Night. Yet still thousands of years later we have Starks and Lannisters etc looking the way they do. 

It's a very interesting observation. 

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1 hour ago, a black swan said:

licensed fanfiction". Thankfully, D&D will revert back to George's book ending for S8. 

Wrong, he never called the show  "lincensed fanfiction"

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Or maybe Bran as one of the Starkest in nature despite of his looks can end up being KITN.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Re: retaining family looks

So the big message will be feudalism rocks, the high-born are more special than others, and each family should breed to retain a certain look as a family marker of blood purity. Awesome. Just what the world needs right now.

 

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2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Re: retaining family looks

 

So the big message will be feudalism rocks, the high-born are more special than others, and each family should breed to retain a certain look as a family marker of blood purity. Awesome. Just what the world needs right now.

 

 

 

Not really.

It's not about blood purity. Both Arya & Sansa have the same damn blood. Starks have married into other families many times yet still have their traditional physical traits carried on. What is your gripe?

It's just a quirk George seems to have with dominant family traits. Several non-silver/purple-eyed looking characters in line for the Throne just end up dying or abdicating for example. 

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19 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Wrong, he never called the show  "lincensed fanfiction"

He was asked about the show moving AWAY from the book storylines. The questioner related that to fanfiction and if George is less against it now? George said nope, still hates Fanfiction. Only difference with the show is they pay him truck loads of money and it's all legally done via licence. 

 

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2 hours ago, a black swan said:

He was asked about the show moving AWAY from the book storylines. The questioner related that to fanfiction and if George is less against it now? George said nope, still hates Fanfiction. Only difference with the show is they pay him truck loads of money and it's all legally done via licence. 

 

http://baltimorepostexaminer.com/george-martin-game-thrones-licensed-fan-fiction/2016/05/29

Read whole thing.

He calls show sublincense.

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5 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Its a licensed adaptation. 

Just like any other piece of intellectual propterty that gets turned from a book into a film or tv series. 

That is all George is saying. Fan fiction by definition is unlicesensed and is done without the authors consent. 

George is specifically pointing out the show by definition is not fan fiction.

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Its a licensed adaptation. 

Just like any other piece of intellectual propterty that gets turned from a book into a film or tv series. 

That is all George is saying. Fan fiction by definition is unlicesensed and is done without the authors consent. 

George is specifically pointing out the show by definition is not fan fiction.

Are you joking or completely blinded?

The second audience member then asked Martin, “As the Game of Thrones TV series moves farther away from the book, has this changed or done anything to your views on fan fiction?

“No” said Martin, “I continue to be opposed to fan fiction because it’s copyright infringement. HBO, of course, gets around this by paying me large dump trucks full of money. So, if you would like to arrive in front of my house with a large dump truck full of money, I may consider allowing you to do some fan fiction. But I won’t consider it fan fiction then. I would consider it a sub-license.

He's clearly saying that the show is fan fiction that big money magically turned into sub-licensed work…

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10 hours ago, a black swan said:

Not really.

It's not about blood purity. Both Arya & Sansa have the same damn blood. Starks have married into other families many times yet still have their traditional physical traits carried on. What is your gripe?

It's just a quirk George seems to have with dominant family traits. Several non-silver/purple-eyed looking characters in line for the Throne just end up dying or abdicating for example. 

My “gripe” was quite clear.

That quirk is rooted firmly in plot reasons and they’re all there if one chooses to look to see them. Like for certain Targs in the books proper to be blonde, some of the darker members had to not procreate because they inbreed. This wasn’t necessary for the Lannisters who also had to stay blonde for plot reasons: they breed like rabbits so lots of recessive genes to go ‘round. The Baratheon family looks? Also a plot requirement. But notice the Tully look is actually the Whent look. Now more Starks look like Tullys (Whents). Jon had to look Stark for plot reasons. So did Arya so she could blend as an orphan. An orphan who looks just like a Tully roaming the Riverlands wouldn’t work so well. GRRM isn’t so silly nor so obvious as to telegraph character fates by hair color: Dark Lannister: die, Red Stark: die, Dark Targaryen: die, Blonde Lannister: some live to procreate, Dark Stark: some live to procreate…hair color says nothing either way about any character’s fate in the books proper.

And I said “marker” for blood purity. The screaming implication taken by myself (and by others as well going by the responses), is that some are more special than others. It’s all over this forum that Jon and Arya are purer for their coloring,  and thus better and truer Starks than Robb, Sansa, Bran and Rickon, and likewise for Targs, Lannisters, etc. Sansa is no true Stark as she lost her wolf and looks like a Tully—yet her blood being the same doesn’t stop people from making that claim. Jon’s a hard sell as a true Targ because he doesn’t look the part. Conversely, Aegon does look the part and Varys' whole plan hooks on that. Westeros and apparently a lot of the fandom see coloring as, well, a measure of purity and worth. Employing this with no plot reason nor with a moral attached is reinforcing something quite negative and superficial.

 

AGOT Catelyn II (Catelyn had no problem with Ned having bastards, but a bastard at Winterfell who looked more Stark than the true-borns is a potential problem).


Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse. "Jon must go," she said now.

 

ACOK Tyrion VII (Lancel was only a shade of golden-boy Jaime, the ideal Lannister)

"Did he tell you to fuck her too?" Look at him. Not quite so tall, his features not so fine, and his hair is sand instead of spun gold, yet still . . . even a poor copy of Jaime is sweeter than an empty bed, I suppose. "No, I thought not."

 

ASOS Jaime I

The Lannister blood runs thin in this one. Cleos was his Aunt Genna's son by that dullard Emmon Frey, who had lived in terror of Lord Tywin Lannister since the day he wed his sister. When Lord Walder Frey had brought the Twins into the war on the side of Riverrun, Ser Emmon had chosen his wife's allegiance over his father's. Casterly Rock got the worst of that bargain, Jaime reflected. Ser Cleos looked like a weasel, fought like a goose, and had the courage of an especially brave ewe. Lady Stark had promised him release if he delivered her message to Tyrion, and Ser Cleos had solemnly vowed to do so.

 

 

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On 4/7/2018 at 0:48 PM, Meera of Tarth said:

Or maybe Bran as one of the Starkest in nature despite of his looks can end up being KITN.

I agree about Bran being the most traditionally Stark-like. Maester Luwin even tells him that he is "truly his father's son" as he lay dying in ACOK. 

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Just now, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree about Bran being the most traditionally Stark-like. Maester Luwin even tells him that he is "truly his father's son" as he lay dying in ACOK. 

i agree.  And I think that Bran is THE most important character in the fight against the Night King. 

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I agree about Bran being the most traditionally Stark-like. Maester Luwin even tells him that he is "truly his father's son" as he lay dying in ACOK. 

Exactly!!!!! And he is the most related to the Old Gods

2 hours ago, goldenmaps said:

i agree.  And I think that Bran is THE most important character in the fight against the Night King

^_^

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