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AEJON TARGARYEN

Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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34 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Just ask the actor who played Stannis. Poor guy had no idea what he was doing because he literally was given nothing in terms of character motivation.

He complained about it in interviews, and not only him: the guys who played Barristan and Doran Martell as well…

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Gwendoline Christie once said that, after watching the finale, people would need to go to therapy.

An actor like her would not say that about tragedy or drama, because that's her "natural habitat".  But she would say it if the final episodes would just drive people mad with frustration.

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5 minutes ago, Mystical said:

 

 If the 3ER were really on the side of humanity and it's survival, wouldn't he have done something to save as many as he can? Instead he lets the dumbest battle ever happen and he does nothing during it to help, he lets everyone at Last Heart die, he pointlessly sacrificed Theon etc..

You certainly have a point here. Now good luck to explain this to the general public who still loves the show, its tits, dragons and operetta villains…

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12 minutes ago, Mystical said:

If the 3ER were really on the side of humanity and it's survival, wouldn't he have done something to save as many as he can? Instead he lets the dumbest battle ever happen and he does nothing during it to help, he lets everyone at Last Heart die, he pointlessly sacrificed Theon etc..

Hang on, the 3ER is NOT "on the side of humanity". It was 'humanity' in the form firstly of the First Men and then the Andals that waged genocidal war on the weirwoods, CotF and old gods.

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12 minutes ago, Mystical said:

 

It makes perfect sense in the show. Because he's not Bran. Bran wouldn't become King, the 3ER would. If you think of the 3ER as evil (and I for one do), it's genius how he pulled the strings to come out on top. From getting Bran up North to get himself a new body. To conveniently not stopping Bran from vision walking so he would get marked, which in turn meant the destruction of the protective barriers (and a perfect excuse to slip his old body and get a shiny new one). To going South of the wall to get himself plenty of meat shields. We know he can see the past, present and future so why did he let so much senseless death happen? If the 3ER were really on the side of humanity and it's survival, wouldn't he have done something to save as many as he can? Instead he lets the dumbest battle ever happen and he does nothing during it to help, he lets everyone at Last Heart die, he pointlessly sacrificed Theon etc..

And why was he so gung ho about Jon needing to know his parentage? Bran would let Jon know because he deserves the truth about his parentage. But the 3ER doesn't care about Jon because he has no familial ties to him. The only thing Jon's parentage seems to do is tear everyone apart. And if you are the 3ER and your goal is to come out on top, having the competition tear each other apart is a brilliant strategy.

I don't think this was D&D's intention. But if the 3ER ends up as the big cheese of Westeros (and maybe beyond), he played it brilliantly. Of course that would mean evil essentially wins in the end. But this is how I see the entire 3ER storyline over the course of the show. If he's the one who wins it all at the end...

Very interesting indeed.

But much too complicated perhaps to be developed within the shows last 3 hours?

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14 minutes ago, Mystical said:

 If the 3ER were really on the side of humanity and it's survival, wouldn't he have done something to save as many as he can? Instead he lets the dumbest battle ever happen and he does nothing during it to help, he lets everyone at Last Heart die, he pointlessly sacrificed Theon etc..

Agreed,

The 3ER is a master of disguise, he's not a suspect and they have no idea what he's capable of. You could potentially argue that Bran warging in secret when instructed not to and then eventually getting himself marked was part of his plan. 

The WW's could only cross the wall with somebody's help (due to the ancient spells) and that's where the 3ER comes into play. If he had shared the information that under no circumstances to ever take a dragon over the wall because losing it would mean the destruction of the wall then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have. Knowing the wall is safe would have also meant not having to prove anything to Cersei.

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18 minutes ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

Agreed,

The 3ER is a master of disguise, he's not a suspect and they have no idea what he's capable of. You could potentially argue that Bran warging in secret when instructed not to and then eventually getting himself marked was part of his plan. 

The WW's could only cross the wall with somebody's help (due to the ancient spells) and that's where the 3ER comes into play. If he had shared the information that under no circumstances to ever take a dragon over the wall because losing it would mean the destruction of the wall then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have. Knowing the wall is safe would have also meant not having to prove anything to Cersei.

This is far too nuanced for the show. They just wanted to wrap things up. And for viewers to just accept everything. They underestimated how many passionate fans there are, of books, show, or both, who would pick it all apart.

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1 hour ago, Torienne said:

Even the far more experienced actor N. C.-W, complained about that.

Did he? I’d love to read that... do you remember where/when it was?

NCW really did a superb job w/ the awful stuff he’s been given. Jaime is definitely not one of the Ds favourite! 

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5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Did he? I’d love to read that... do you remember where/when it was?

NCW really did a superb job w/ the awful stuff he’s been given. Jaime is definitely not one of the Ds favourite! 

Have they ever stated who they do like? I can name a handful of characters off the top of my head that they don't like. Do any of us know who they actually like? ha.

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5 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Have they ever stated who they do like? I can name a handful of characters off the top of my head that they don't like. Do any of us know who they actually like? ha.

Not that I’m aware of, but isn’t it obvious? Cersei and Tyrion and Tywin. In other words, Lannisters who aren’t Jaime. :D

 

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35 minutes ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

Agreed,

The 3ER is a master of disguise, he's not a suspect and they have no idea what he's capable of. You could potentially argue that Bran warging in secret when instructed not to and then eventually getting himself marked was part of his plan. 

His plan for what?

35 minutes ago, LearnToBeNoOne said:

The WW's could only cross the wall with somebody's help (due to the ancient spells) and that's where the 3ER comes into play. If he had shared the information that under no circumstances to ever take a dragon over the wall because losing it would mean the destruction of the wall then I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have. Knowing the wall is safe would have also meant not having to prove anything to Cersei.

As far as the show information goes, in episode 3 it is stated that no one knows if dragons would work or not because no one has tried. This is information that comes from Bran, not the other tree guy. Therefore, this information would not be available to share (or not) as it never happened.

Pffft! That Cersei and jack-in-the-box wight stunt was, well, a very stunty spectacle.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Do any of us know who they actually like? ha.

Lannisters excepted, I doubt it; they're the guys who wrote a Gendry Rivers and think Dickon is Sam's older brother after all…

Edited by Nowy Tends

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, TNTW said:

This is far too nuanced for the show. They just wanted to wrap things up. And for viewers to just accept everything. They underestimated how many passionate fans there are, of books, show, or both, who would pick it all apart.

I guess I’m trying to find an excuse for the show to still somehow be what it was meant to be. A logical twist, something that could make sense. 

Can’t have that much faith in the writers though, you’re right. 

Edited by LearnToBeNoOne

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Have they ever stated who they do like? I can name a handful of characters off the top of my head that they don't like. Do any of us know who they actually like? ha.

Benioff keep saying Sansa is his favorite, Idk about Weiss.

Edited by Leticia Stark

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30 minutes ago, Leticia Stark said:

Benioff keep saying Sansa is his favorite, Idk about Weiss.

They don't give a damn about characters. They write scenes for their actors, not the characters they play.

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5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They don't give a damn about characters. They write scenes for their actors, not the characters they play.

This is definitely how I feel about them with Cersei. They always seem to fawn over Lena.

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Not that I’m aware of, but isn’t it obvious? Cersei and Tyrion and Tywin. In other words, Lannisters who aren’t Jaime. :D

Yeah, they really seem to like Cersei, which goes to show that they didn't read her chapters in Feast and Dance - otherwise they would know she's a self-aggrandizing incompetent loon that's in way over her head. Would nearly make me wonder if they aren't a bit closet psychos, considering they seem to like mostly evil mofos. Frankly, I think they'd be more appropriate to make a series based on Mark Lawrence's Broken Empire; they would love Jorg Ancrath.

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39 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

His plan for what?

I was entertaining the idea that the whole 3ER thing could be the opposite of what they want us to think it is. Then after reading some comments on this thread today I just felt like exploring what I commented to see what others thought. 

The plan he’s been working on to get the NK killed because because he didn’t stand a chance on his own. He Gave Arya the Valyrian steel (D&D have said they knew Arya would be the one 3 years ago) knowing she would deliver. The mark would guarantee he was found so used himself as bait and let everybody else do the work, in turn getting rid of the NK for potentially his own personal gains. It’s a bit of a stretch but like I said I’m trying to find a logical twist, anything that can make the show to be what it was meant to be. That’s how disappointed I am. 

39 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

As far as the show information goes, in episode 3 it is stated that no one knows if dragons would work or not because no one has tried. This is information that comes from Bran, not the other tree guy. Therefore, this information would not be available to share (or not) as it never happened.

The NK managed to obtain a dragon and that’s how he got past the wall. Plus the 3ER passed everything that he knew onto Bran so I’m just entertaining the possibility that amongst that information  was something that could have helped Bran to figure out what could bring the wall down - even if it was a gamble. 

Like I said this isn’t what I believe to be true it’s just something I came up with based on the things I’ve been reading in this thread today so I wanted to discuss it. 

Otherwise of course such an idea would require me to reference in more detail to make it more convincing. Unless of course there’s somebody who’s thinking the same then it can be discussed further if not onto the next.  

39 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Pffft! That Cersei and jack-in-the-box wight stunt was, well, a very stunty spectacle.

Haha I mean sacrificing a dragon for that? They would do it all again. 

Qyburn was nearly as excited as that N64 kid. 

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7 hours ago, Maia said:

Ditto. But it is what it is. I am shocked that however Dany's death turns out, GRRM seems to be endorsing all those sexist jerks who claimed that the Iron Throne would never accept a woman in FaB. Nor is a female claimant getting ultimately shafted in any way a "subversion". Nor is an ambitious and powerful woman going mad, if GRRM's version has that element - not only is it a repugnant trope rooted in the conviction that women are constitutionally unable to handle power responsibly, but he already has Cersei, Lysa and even Cat doing so before her death. There were many ways to have Dany rule successfully and yet make it very bitter in the end. He managed it with Jaehaerys and Alysanne, why not with Dany? 

I'd expect that Dany is most definitely going to sit the Iron Throne, never mind whether she is going to die in the books or not. Anything else would make little sense.

I mean, we already have George's word that the show gets his story wrong in this regard since he already confirmed that multiple people would sit the Iron Throne after Tommen in the books - yet the show would only have Cersei on the throne after Tommen.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

I am not even sure about that last. And I kinda wonder if show Dany doesn't have some of FAegon in her too. I mean, she is not particularly obssessed with the Iron Throne in ADwD, and by the time she gets to Westeros she'd already know  that she might not be the rightful heir and would have had time to come to terms with it. She actually wants to find family too. Neither does she expect the  people to immediately accept her as their ruler, as show Dany, and FAegon both do. Book Dany is familiar with suffering defeats and recovering from them as FAegon is not, etc.

Pretty sure the blue rose vision and the mount to love both very much indicate a Dany-Jon romance.

I think George really has to raise the scales for there to be a Second Dance at all. Things must escalate and have to go ugly. Hence, for instance, my idea that Illyrio is going to use his dagger at Dany's throat, Strong Belwas, to assassinate. If that goes wrong and causes the deaths of Missandei and/or Selmy and perhaps disfigured or nearly kills Dany she will have very good reason to be angry.

Might be she only demands the death of Illyrio - or at least that he be handed over to her - but Aegon, who may have learned that the man is his actual father by that time - refuses to give him up. There are other scenarios imaginable, too.

I'm pretty sure Dany could actually feel relieved by the news of Aegon - because that could give her the excuse not to go to Westeros at all. Because she doesn't really know the place and is clearly not in a hurry. And after she has taken over the Dothraki she could just as well become the new god-empress of Essos.

Marwyn and Moqorro are likely going to point her west, and if she is convinced by that she would likely go there to help, because she might realize that the Others would also affect life of the people of Essos.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

Yes. IMHO, it is likely that Dany will be convinced to come and bail out FAegon, as Tyrion predicted when manipulating him, only to get shafted as a result and the show Sansa indeed got Arianne's plot material, while show Dany's coming to WF to help the ungrateful  North is the mix of book Stannis and her own book plot in the south. FAegon will ride one of her dragons and get showered with praise for it, etc.

Well, we have to wait and see whether Aegon is already sitting the Iron Throne when Dany learns of his existence. I doubt Dany will go Westeros at once just because she might believe she has a nephew who might be in danger.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

Book Varys, of course, created FAegon*, so naturally he'd do his best to undermine and discredit Dany once they get her help and rivalry between the 2 develops. He was also the one who foiled Rhaegar's attempts to establish a regency in order to mitigate Aerys's madness and generally faned the disagreements between them, so yea... And now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense for Dany to execute Varys once she uncovers his numerous perfidies. Far from showing her as a tyrant madwoman, it would actually be an act of rare good sense :D.

The show Varys is about as empty a character as anybody else. What exactly his goal was back during the last years of Aerys II and what role he played in the Aerys-Rhaegar thing we don't really know yet. But I buy that the claim that the Aegon plan basically is supposed to give the Realm lasting stability. How stable/successful a king as obsessed with prophecy as Rhaegar was would have been is actually an interesting question

7 hours ago, Maia said:

*This is also why I have been convinced practically since I first read AGoT that Viserys was only ever a decoy and Varys and Illyrio always had another claimant up their sleeve. And why I couldn't disagree more that FAegon or somebody like him was a late addition. Euron was also signposted as somebody of future importance in ACoK already.

Sure. The evil pirate seemed rather ominous back in ACoK when Theon first introduced him.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

From what I have heard about the oldest outline with the infamous love triangle involving Arya, eeevil King Jaime, etc., Viserys may have been a reasonable pretender there, since in it Dany apparently murdered her Dothraki husband to avenge him. But in AGoT anybody who spent half an hour with him and had 2 neurons to rub together would have known that he had no prayer of winning and holding the Iron Throne, nor would it have been in any way beneficial for the realm if he somehow succeeded.

With the right advisers Viserys III could have been a little bit better than Robert (who, despite having good advisers, beggared the Crown for no reason) but he would have been never better than average. Viserys III had issues with Dany and was neither particularly brave nor intelligent, but he seems to have been more obsessed with being seen/treated as a king than actually caring about the power all that much. He could have been the kind of king Daemon II Blackfyre would have been. Although somewhat less stable considering his rather unpleasant upbringing.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

I am 100% with you on this possibility, as I came to the same conclusion, but the fact remains that Dany's ultimate fate in the show must be somehow be similar to what GRRM had planned for her. So, presumably, she never reigns (to the vindication of all the bigots in all the ASOIAF books)  and dies violently and young.

Oh, but it seems as if they really twisted the story out so that Lena Headey would get and keep the Iron Throne for as long as possible. If they butchered the chronology - which they did before more than once! - then Dany certainly could rule and sit the throne for a time even if she were to die in the end (which then would have to happen during the fight against the Others rather than in this ridiculous manner).

7 hours ago, Maia said:

That's where I expected the things to go too, but now I am somewhat worried that GRRM is going to chicken out on it, to a degree. He is running out of time to give this part of the story neccessary space. If TWoW had come out 4 years ago, he still might have been able to write an 8th book, if required, but now, not so much, even if TWoW comes out tomorrow, which it won't. Martin also never mastered the art of advancing the timeline at a decent clip or inserting time-gaps, so that I fully expect the series to finish only 5 or so years in-world after it began, at best, with, hopefully Winter still in full swing and maybe an epilogue a few decades into the future.

Well, nothing would do this story more injustice than a rushed ending - which we see with this travesty of an adaptation. So we'll either get a long ending or we don't get any ending, and it is quite clear that no ending is much matter than the show shit.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

I'd also be incredibly disappointed if the Others don't make it into the Riverlands at the very least and if the problems of refugees, starvation, etc. are going to be swept under the carpet like in the show. The impact on Westeros and northern parts of Essos should be similar to that of the Black Death in the 13th century on England, for this whole plot element to be satisfying. I really, really hope that GRRM doesn't succumb to LOTRitis and have the whole thing over in less than a year...

We should at least get the effects of winter as such - since chances are not exactly high that the Wall is going to fall early on (or even in) TWoW. But, sure, the Others cannot be just defeated in the North. Assuming they even can be defeated in a great battle. I've trouble seeing that. There should be a number of battles against the Others/wights but I really don't see any reason why the Others should be as stupid as to concentrate all their assets in one army...

7 hours ago, Maia said:

Here, I disagree. People are going to squabble and try to one-up each other even at the brink of annihilation. All part of the "heart in conflict, etc. But I would expect something like WW2 level of cooperation between the survivors.

Well, if Aegon and Dany were to stop their Dance and fight together against the Others then I could see continuing tensions. But the good guys as a whole (i.e. the Starks) should basically have no issues with Dany. Unless Dany is going to turn out to be the one who breaks and kills Stannis. Or, perhaps, if Sansa ends up in team Aegon.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

The leaks seem to suggest something compatible with this, too. In fact, I think that in the books Jon never leaves the NW and that they have no reason to think that the Others are gone forever once it is all done. Also, if he is raised by Melisandre or UnCat, he should have flaming blood like Beric.

Yeah, pretty sure that's the way he'll get a Lightbringer-like burning Valyrian steel sword.

I think the Others plot has to be resolved in the end to actually give this story a proper ending. After all, the Others really seem to be the conserved original sin of the First Men.

7 hours ago, Maia said:

I don't know about that. It now looks very likely that Euron, instead of the show's NK is indeed going to get one of the dragons and do something horrible with it, as well as with his dark magic. Dany's struggles with him in the show could very well be based on her book arc, only in the books he is a terrifying sorcerer and a worthy adversary, who might be in league with the Others or working for them unwittingly.

I could see Euron kill one of the dragons, but I don't see him to become a dragonrider. Euron should be such a powerful sorcerer by the time these two meet that dragons are no longer all that important to him.

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18 hours ago, AEJON TARGARYEN said:

SPOILER EP 5

  Reveal hidden contents

"Varys dies next episode (Dany burns him alive), Dany and Unsullied fuck up kings landing and they begin to surrender but the surrender bells that sound off in a tower literally "break" Dany mentally and she goes pure mad targaryan. It sounds like it is setting up Jon and Grey Worm confrontation. Grey Worm also lets his anger get the better of him as Lannister troops surrender he says fuck it and throws a spear at a soldier which starts a crazy riot where Dany's army starts raping and pillaging everyone. Jon is like wtf apparantly but gets caught up in the battle to really do anything (lannisters start attacking again). There was a leak I read earlier I'll try and find it because what my source was telling me was very similiar to that leak and they more or less confirmed everything in that leak 100% true." 

"Yeah i think Unsullied are just indiscriminately killing (women and children) and Dothraki go on a rape rampage. Source didnt get specific but I dont see Unsullied doing any penetrating except with an actual spear. Cleganebowl happens this episode (5) and they do both die. Grey Worm and Jon have a big stare down and Grey Worm thinks Jon is gonna start killing Unsullied so hes like waiting for Jon to turn on Dany so he can kill him but a Lannister soldier distracts Jon instead. Source says they are heavily saying Dany is going mad so I would put some weight to the leaks saying Jon kills Dany. I mentioned that to the source and they just said "Oh yeah definitely leading up to that" so take that for what it is.

No mention of Arya unfortunately, she must be more for episode 6? Not sure.

Honestly when they told me "bells make her snap" my jaw hit the floor. Im personally not liking these and the more silly ones (Bran becoming the king) have a very real possibility of being legit imo. Hopefully the execution is better."

Source: GOTit1111, he was correct about EP 4

 

If this is true...... I can't even imagine the reaction from fans and critics. D&D are lunatics.

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