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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

But he DOES love her.  That's why the whole thing is so fucked. It's not a toxic relationship, it's just awful writing.

It is toxic when one partner abuses the love and devotion from the other and wants to manipulate them into complete self-denial for their own wants. Dany uses Jon's honor, loyalty and his feelings for her own ends. That's outright evil imo.

Edited by sweetsunray

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3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It is toxic when one partner abuses the love and devotion from the other and wants to manipulate them into complete self-denial for their own wants.

exactly, awful writing. I cannot accept that this is either characters choice, just BS from D&D.

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12 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

But he DOES love her.  That's why the whole thing is so fucked. It's not a toxic relationship, it's just awful writing.

When he kneels and says "You are my queen...I dont know what else I can say" he should have said he loves her there. He didn't. 

They are manipulating each other. The kneel parallels Cersei/Euron and the face grabbing parallels Littlefinger/Sansa.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, divica said:

I wouldn t say mad. I think cruel or vindictive is more appropriate. 

But the big problem is how fast everything is happening... Things just don t fit.. 

What gets me is how Dany is suddenly more cruel than all the other murderous, scheming characters we have seen on this show?   We have seen folks skinned alive,fed to hounds and made into meat pies.  People shot with crossbows and burned at the stake. A Night King who wants to extinguish mankind.  Some viewers act like we have been living in a peaceful fantasyland of candy canes and gumdrops and then some evil mad queen suddenly destroys their serene fairytale life.

Edited by TheFirstofHerName

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22 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Sometimes there isn't enough experience with the world to see it happening, and it's too easy for an attractive physique and the hormones of sex to mask an unattractive personality. It's no surprise that Jon "You Know Nothing" Snow is slow to realize what she's been doing to him.

But he does realize, in his own way. He is in too deep to simply break it off cleanly, but he can protect himself, and that is what he did. After that scene, he called his sister-cousins to the godswood along with Bran and found a way to inform them of his true identity-- without explicitly breaking his promise to Daenerys (IOW, Bran is the one who actually told them). 

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2 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

What gets me is how Dany is suddenly more cruel than all the other murderous, scheming characters we have seen on this show?   We have seen folks fed to hounds and made into meat pies.  People shot with crossbows and burned at the stake. A Night King who wants to extinguish mankind.  Some viewers act that we have been living in a peaceful fantasyland of candy canes and gumdrops and then some evil mad queen suddenly destroys their serenand fairytale life.

She isn't more cruel. She's just as bad as Tywin, Cersei, the Night King, Stannis, Ramsay, Jaime, Littlefinger, Varys, Viserys, Drogo and Tyrion... They are all villains, just for very different reasons. What Dany is doing to Jon is wrong, no matter whether the prior was a horror show or lalaland. If Dany ignores a surrender that is evil too. 

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1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

She isn't more cruel. She's just as bad as Tywin, Cersei, the Night King, Stannis, Ramsay, Jaime, Littlefinger, Varys, Viserys, Drogo and Tyrion... They are all villains, just for very different reasons. What Dany is doing to Jon is wrong, no matter whether the prior was a horror show or lalaland. If Dany ignores a surrender that is evil too. 

I am guessing Grey Worm and the Unsullied go rogue because he wants to avenge Missandei’s death.  He is the one who is going mad.  Dothraki typically rape and pillage after a victory.  How does Dany stop them other than targeting them with dragon fire.  Who can stop them?   

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14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

It is toxic when one partner abuses the love and devotion from the other and wants to manipulate them into complete self-denial for their own wants. Dany uses Jon's honor, loyalty and his feelings for her own ends. That's outright evil imo.

From Dany's perspective, she is kind of right about the risks of telling his family though. Once the secret gets out, everyone seems to be plotting to put him on the throne instead and the solution of them just marrying seems off the table because of the incest (and because he isn't strong enough to keep her in line apparently). He's also been withdrawing from her ever since he found out and I wonder how much she feels that she can trust him.

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1 minute ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

I am guessing Grey Worm and the Unsullied go rogue because he wants to avenge Missandei’s death.  He is the one who is going mad.  Dothraki typically rape and pillage after a victory.  How does Dany stop them other than targeting them with dragon fire.  Who can stop them?   

That's the wait and see: does Grey Worm initiate the going rogue, or does Dany initiate it. If they do go rogue, without following Dany's example, she actually should punish them after.

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1 minute ago, Wall Flower said:

From Dany's perspective, she is kind of right about the risks of telling his family though. Once the secret gets out, everyone seems to be plotting to put him on the throne instead and the solution of them just marrying seems off the table because of the incest (and because he isn't strong enough to keep her in line apparently). He's also been withdrawing from her ever since he found out and I wonder how much she feels that she can trust him.

I don't disagree with Dany's perspective that this secret is dangerous. What absolutely galls me is how she is manipulating him emotionally. It isn't so much her argument, but how she goes about it.

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I should add, that if Varys goes through with his plan to kill/overthrow Daenerys, then that is unequivocally treason, and would justify his execution.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I should add, that if Varys goes through with his plan to kill/overthrow Daenerys, then that is unequivocally treason, and would justify his execution.

Was what Ned did treason when he sent word to Stannis, knowing that Joffrey was not actually Robert's child? In that sense it's ironic that Varys would end up being killed for doing exactly the same thing that Ned Stark did.

Edited by sweetsunray

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1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

Was what Ned did treason when he sent word to Stannis, knowing that Joffrey was not actually Robert's child?

The situations are somewhat different.  Varys has sworn allegiance to Daenerys, and is part of her inner circle.  Ned never swore allegiance to Joffrey.

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2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I should add, that if Varys goes through with his plan to kill/overthrow Daenerys, then that is unequivocally treason, and would justify his execution.

 

Just now, sweetsunray said:

Was what Ned did treason when he sent word to Stannis, knowing that Joffrey was not actually Robert's child?

Varys swore loyalty to her, she gave him a big long speech/warning about 'dont freaking betray me or ill feed you to the dragon'. not that long ago I might add. And she has not done anything mad or crazy yet. So his treason is totally premature and yeah he deserves execution for plotting to kill her just because he (for no reason at all) decided he likes Jon better after knowing him for 10 days. sometimes you have to pay for your choices.  Comparing Varys to Ned is absurd, Varys has betrayed every single person her has ever pledged loyalty to.

 

remember varys' speech to tyrion? telling him that Dany is the only thing we can believe in in this world and she is a reason to go on living? wtf happened to that?

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Just now, SeanF said:

The situations are somewhat different.  Varys has sworn allegiance to Daenerys, and is part of her inner circle.  Ned never swore allegiance to Joffrey.

Well, Dany herself is basically being treasonous, for she knows the truth as well, and doesn't do anything except for "keep your mouth shut about it". Is betraying someone who commits treason actual treason?

 

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13 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

I am guessing Grey Worm and the Unsullied go rogue because he wants to avenge Missandei’s death.  He is the one who is going mad.  Dothraki typically rape and pillage after a victory.  How does Dany stop them other than targeting them with dragon fire.  Who can stop them?   

She's their leader and they listen to her. If she wants to stop them, she can.

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7 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

 

Varys swore loyalty to her, she gave him a big long speech/warning about 'dont freaking betray me or ill feed you to the dragon'. not that long ago I might add. And she has not done anything mad or crazy yet. So his treason is totally premature and yeah he deserves execution for plotting to kill her just because he (for no reason at all) decided he likes Jon better after knowing him for 10 days. sometimes you have to pay for your choices.  Comparing Varys to Ned is absurd, Varys has betrayed every single person her has ever pledged loyalty to.

 

remember varys' speech to tyrion? telling him that Dany is the only thing we can believe in in this world and she is a reason to go on living? wtf happened to that?

That's the problem.  Varys betraying someone isn't that surprising...Varys betraying Dany who he has been scheming on behalf for years because Jon "I haven't won a battle in ages" Snow, makes no sense.  Dany has done nothing wrong other than listen to Tyrion's terrible advice, try to save Jon and the North.  There is no reason beyond the plot demands it that Varys should even be worried about Dany's state of  mind, let alone plotting to kill her.  

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

That's the problem.  Varys betraying someone isn't that surprising...Varys betraying Dany who he has been scheming on behalf for years because Jon "I haven't won a battle in ages" Snow, makes no sense.  Dany has done nothing wrong other than listen to Tyrion's terrible advice, try to save Jon and the North.  There is no reason beyond the plot demands it that Varys should even be worried about Dany's state of  mind, let alone plotting to kill her.  

Very much agreed and thank you for saying that :)

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