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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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4 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

considering they'd all be dead without her and the North would have lost the war with the WW's, I think she is entitled to ask Jon to keep a secret he only found out about 3 days ago.

ANyone who wants peace would push for a marriage, anyone not pushing for a marriage is literally asking for more death and destruction.

Euhm, Jon gave up his KitN crown for the dragons and her armies, and risked his life beyond the wall to help her to achieve a truce with Cersei.

She is not entitled to him keeping his identity secret whatsoever.

Anyone who wants peace would push for a marriage: well since Dany certainly doesn't, I guess that means she does not want peace, but war.

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5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Starvation was the most horrible feature of a siege.  There would often come a point at which the women, children, and old men would be driven out of the city as the defenders could no longer feed them.

I agree that starvation is the horrible part of a siege. Still, Stannis and many within SE got to live the tale though.

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When did Varys become opposed to Daenerys war tactics?  In Season 6 Episode 10 WOW, he walks in on Lady Olenna and Ellaria Sand in Dorne who are discussing what their heart’s desire is.....vengeance, justice...and he walks in and says FIRE AND BLOOD.  

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Just now, Wall Flower said:

It could be resolved by marriage but apparently avuncular marriages are a big no no (…).

Which is odd when we know Ned Stark's father and mother were cousins… Anyway, did they have a discussion about co-ruling or something of the like? No of course…

As we often say in France, pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué ? (why keep it simple when you can make it complicated?)

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4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Civilians who die because of Dany are just as dead as civilians who die because of Cersei.

And still, a blockade gives opportunity for revolt against Cersei from within the city. Tyrion says as much, they want to instigate an internal revolt against her. But now its, Dany murders them directly. Thats her direct action. The U.S. puts sanctions on North Korea with trade but they dont actually go over there and burn the innocent citizens alive. 

I must've missed the scene where Dany says she wants to murder innocent civilians directly?

4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Euhm, Jon gave up his KitN crown for the dragons and her armies, and risked his life beyond the wall to help her to achieve a truce with Cersei.

She is not entitled to him keeping his identity secret whatsoever.

Anyone who wants peace would push for a marriage: well since Dany certainly doesn't, I guess that means she does not want peace, but war.

Who has asked Dany for her hand in marriage? I must've missed that scene too.

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3 minutes ago, Wall Flower said:

Dany hasn't sworn allegiance to Jon, though, he's sworn to her. The revelation of his parentage makes them rival claimants. It could be resolved by marriage but apparently avuncular marriages are a big no no and Varys is switching sides.

 

Dany's allegiance is to her family tree and the Targaryen laws about inheritance. Once she claims the right to rule based on her heritage, she commits treason to the abstract crown and law of her ancestors.

It could be resolved by marriage or by making some co-rule arrangement with Jon, or have him come out with his secret and then voluntarily abdicate. Dany herself could have offered these options. She doesn't: it's MY throne, MY rule, and you shut your mouth about it.

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15 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, is Dany's willingness to sit on the throne lying to all of the realm about her being the rightful heir to it a good enough reason to break his oath? Ned seemed to think so to write one important word of difference in Robert's will than Robert dictated and had him sign it too.

If she then also justifies acting like a tyrant to those she as queen ought to protect to get rid of another tyrant it only adds to it.

Still, I agree he's a hypocrite with regards to the Joffrey situation.

People with a better claim to the Throne than Henry Tudor swore allegiance to him as King, and were attainted when they broke those oaths.  And, Dany's claim to the IT is a good deal stronger than Henry Tudor's was to the Throne of England.

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3 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

When did Varys become opposed to Daenerys war tactics?  In Season 6 Episode 10 WOW, he walks in on Lady Olenna and Ellaria Sand in Dorne who are discussing what their heart’s desire is.....vengeance, justice...and he walks in and says FIRE AND BLOOD.  

There is zero consistency. As I keep saying; terrible writing. If you want to jump on D&D's bandwagon and blame Dany, that's giving them a lot of credence.

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Just now, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I must've missed the scene where Dany says she wants to murder innocent civilians directly?

Who has asked Dany for her hand in marriage? I must've missed that scene too.

Since she calls herself queen, it is Dany who has to ask the hand in marriage.

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8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

There is no reason to believe that the city wouldn't turn on Cersei, or that her mercenary army wouldn't turn on her in two shakes.  So, there is logically no reason to think that a siege would ever get to the point of people dying of starvation, they would all turn on Cersei and that's the end.  It could be almost bloodless. 

They probably should have turned on her when she blew up the Sept of Baelor, the entire religious establishment, Queen Margaery and half the nobility. She'll blow the city before she lets anyone surrender.

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2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Since she calls herself queen, it is Dany who has to ask the hand in marriage.

please clarify what you are talking about here with quotes from the show?

You have lost me.

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2 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

There is zero consistency. As I keep saying; terrible writing. If you want to jump on D&D's bandwagon and blame Dany, that's giving them a lot of credence.

This is also the same guy who was happily prepared to withstand a siege and kill the enemy by wildfire in season 2.  If he couldn't stand any innocents dying he should have cut Cersei's throat and opened the gates instead of working to fortify the city against the siege.

It's pathetically bad what they have tried to do in the blink of an eye with Dany.  

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

This is also the same guy who was happily prepared to withstand a siege and kill the enemy by wildfire in season 2.  If he couldn't stand any innocents dying he should have cut Cersei's throat and opened the gates instead of working to fortify the city against the siege.

It's pathetically bad what they have tried to do in the blink of an eye with Dany.  

INSANELY pathetic, rushed, ridiculous, Total fucking nonsense.

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2 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

Which is odd when we know Ned Stark's father and mother were cousins… Anyway, did they have a discussion about co-ruling or something of the like? No of course…

As we often say in France, pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué ? (why keep it simple when you can make it complicated?)

Cousins still isn't uncle-niece, or aunt-nephew. The show excluded it apparently from history, but in the books two HALF-uncles (brothers to one another) marry their nieces, one of them being the rightful heir (but not having any issue yet, despite her first marriage). However, despite one of those half-uncles begetting issue on their nieces, those children were never heirs either. It went to issue of another of their brother with a Karstark (far cousin). So, cousins are ok in the North. Issue of the sole avuncular marriages known in the North are not recognized as heirs.

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5 minutes ago, Wall Flower said:

They probably should have turned on her when she blew up the Sept of Baelor, the entire religious establishment, Queen Margaery and half the nobility. She'll blow the city before she lets anyone surrender.

Agreed. It's not believable that Cersei got to call herself queen after that farce.

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1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

Agreed. It's not believable that Cersei got to call herself queen after that farce.

At any rate, she would have to rule by terror alone.

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4 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

please clarify what you are talking about here with quotes from the show?

You have lost me.

It's status related. A bastard, without a castle to his name, cannot ask for Dany's hand in marriage. The offer must come from her, if she insists on being Jon's Queen and him the bastard Warden of the North.

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5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

This is also the same guy who was happily prepared to withstand a siege and kill the enemy by wildfire in season 2.  If he couldn't stand any innocents dying he should have cut Cersei's throat and opened the gates instead of working to fortify the city against the siege.

It's pathetically bad what they have tried to do in the blink of an eye with Dany.  

It is BAD!  I am so disappointed.

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11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

People with a better claim to the Throne than Henry Tudor swore allegiance to him as King, and were attainted when they broke those oaths.  And, Dany's claim to the IT is a good deal stronger than Henry Tudor's was to the Throne of England.

But Henry Tudor did not ask them to hide their identity, right? Instead he had them swear alleagiance to him with everyone knowing who they were, so it was known that other claimants were not going to press their claim.

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Maybe Dany doesn't want to marry Jon because (it is known) he has too small a pecker… :lmao:

sorry, I just read a good joke about it on reddit…:blush: shame! Ding!

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