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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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4 hours ago, Butterwell said:

Yes, if true. It’s terrible either way. Nothing in any of these leaks is a satisfying conclusion to this story. This can’t be what GRRM intended.

Yes the are a terrible way to end the story and the character arcs. I just can't believe that jon is going to do such a thing as I don't think dany will do mad. Why can't there folks just talk to each other ffs

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2 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

Yes the are a terrible way to end the story and the character arcs. I just can't believe that jon is going to do such a thing as I don't think dany will do mad. Why can't there folks just talk to each other ffs

It isn t just the 2 of them.

Brienne just got her heart broken. Bran is an emotionless robot. Arya returned tp winterfell just to break gendry's heart and leave her familly for no reason. Sansa is some mixture of LF and cersei.jamie has the most stupid story ever. greyworm lost missandei…

Everything is just awful!

 

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23 minutes ago, Maia said:

I have noticed that the show occasionally uses motives from the books out of context - like battle on the frozen lake with combatants falling through the ice. Maybe this is another such repurposing.

We call that plotzee... they are constantly mining past book scenes and some logical things to happen in tWoW and then adapt it as if it happens years later than say in aSoS, or for another character. Such as Jon and Dany in the cave actually comes from a tWoW excerpt of Arianne's POV in the jungle in the south of the Stormlands. Dany's winter coat is designed after Val's snowbear attire she returns in aDwD and make Jon be gobsmacked by the vision. Dragonglass: Stannis sent a letter from the Wall to his steward to mine the dragonglass and ship it north, while he was still at the Wall.  

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2 hours ago, alienarea said:

After the trainwreck of season 8 Westeros deserves to be ruled by Darkstar ;)

FTFY

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34 minutes ago, Maia said:

I am sure that Dany just up and left, Cersei would have totally left the North alone, too! Sansa is smart, after all... And for the record, I like her in the books.

To be fair:

Missandei to Sansa: "Without the dragon queen we'd all be dead by now."

Dany doesn't listen to Sansa, makes mistakes... Missandei dead

;)

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We feel terrible - can u imagine how kit and emelia must have felt. I am not sure they filmed multiple endings. The start targaryen motifs on t shirt might mean something positive ?

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1 minute ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

We feel terrible - can u imagine how kit and emelia must have felt. I am not sure they filmed multiple endings. The start targaryen motifs on t shirt might mean something positive ?

They certainly filmed multiple endings. Friki wouldn t be completly wrong about his spoilers… That scene of tyrion's trial certainly exists… 

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Yes I think tyrion has been leaking info to cersei hence euron awesome ambush ability...I just think the spoilers of jon killing dany could happen cos I.am not sure how the iron throne will be destroyed otherwise....it's agony waiting for the episodes 

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7 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

Yes I think tyrion has been leaking info to cersei hence euron awesome ambush ability...I just think the spoilers of jon killing dany could happen cos I.am not sure how the iron throne will be destroyed otherwise....it's agony waiting for the episodes 

It doesn t make any sense to destroy the IT. We haven t seen anyone saying that the IT shouldn t exist or that westeros should return to being 7 independent kingdoms that were always at war… It makes perfect sense to keep westeros together in order to survive winter and all the consequences of this non stop war.

And tyrion being a traitor is the only thing that can save this season. It could explain several plot holes and hopefully jon and danny fake her death in order to catch tyrion?

 

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4 minutes ago, divica said:

It doesn t make any sense to destroy the IT. We haven t seen anyone saying that the IT shouldn t exist or that westeros should return to being 7 independent kingdoms that were always at war… It makes perfect sense to keep westeros together in order to survive winter and all the consequences of this non stop war.

And tyrion being a traitor is the only thing that can save this season. It could explain several plot holes and hopefully jon and danny fake her death in order to catch tyrion?

 

Why not, the realm hasn't seen a good king or queen in decades.  With most the great houses extinct, why not move toward a great council type of government?  I think we have seen that absolute monarchy is a bad idea, when the health of your country is wholly dependent on the intellect, character and judgment of a single person.

I still don't see Tyrion being a traitor unless he plans to put himself on the throne, there is no one left for him to betray Dany for, him switching sides to Cersei would be insanely bad, Jon already says he won't take the throne, so what would be the point there? And the showrunners already said that she FORGOT about Euron, so there is no retconning that as a betrayal.

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Why not, the realm hasn't seen a good king or queen in decades.  With most the great houses extinct, why not move toward a great council type of government?  I think we have seen that absolute monarchy is a bad idea, when the health of your country is wholly dependent on the intellect, character and judgment of a single person.

I still don't see Tyrion being a traitor unless he plans to put himself on the throne, there is no one left for him to betray Dany for, him switching sides to Cersei would be insanely bad, Jon already says he won't take the throne, so what would be the point there? And the showrunners already said that she FORGOT about Euron, so there is no retconning that as a betrayal.

Because medieval people don t sudenly think about a council/democracy. We haven t seen anyone wanting to live in a diferent regime that they have always lived. Are we supposed to believe tyrion will sudenly think that they should form a council? No one has ever raised problems about what powers a king should have...

If in season 7 tyrion and cersei achieved some peace it makes sense that he doesn t want her to die. That he hopes that cersei will inflict enough losses on danny that she decides to return to meeren. And between cersei telling jamie that he is the stupidiest lannister for thinking she will go north, sansa calling tyrion dumb for believing cersei would go north and euron's latest ambush there is enough foreshadow to support that tyrion might be on cersei's side...

It would even make sense that he wants cersei to win because of her baby. After all he always wanted the best for his nephews… 

Several things make sense if you can accept that tyrion wants cersei to remain queen and her baby to be king (they are lannisters after all).

 

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1 minute ago, divica said:

Because medieval people don t sudenly think about a council/democracy. We haven t seen anyone wanting to live in a diferent regime that they have always lived. Are we supposed to believe tyrion will sudenly think that they should form a council? No one has ever raised problems about what powers a king should have...

If in season 7 tyrion and cersei achieved some peace it makes sense that he doesn t want her to die. That he hopes that cersei will inflict enough losses on danny that she decides to return to meeren. And between cersei telling jamie that he is the stupidiest lannister for thinking she will go north, sansa calling tyrion dumb for believing cersei would go north and euron's latest ambush there is enough foreshadow to support that tyrion might be on cersei's side...

It would even make sense that he wants cersei to win because of her baby. After all he always wanted the best for his nephews… 

Several things make sense if you can accept that tyrion wants cersei to remain queen and her baby to be king (they are lannisters after all).

 

I would really dislike that and I don't think that is the way it will go.  It would make Jorah a chump for telling Dany to trust Tyrion, Dany a chump for trusting him still, and for Tyrion, then, he will be a worse person than when he started the show.  It's already ludicrous that he keeps trying to reach his sister who is obviously a hateful monster.  

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4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I would really dislike that and I don't think that is the way it will go.  It would make Jorah a chump for telling Dany to trust Tyrion, Dany a chump for trusting him still, and for Tyrion, then, he will be a worse person than when he started the show.  It's already ludicrous that he keeps trying to reach his sister who is obviously a hateful monster.  

At least it would be bittersweat. Everyone beliving in tyrion ang giving him another chance and in the end he was lying to everybody and some character die because of it.

If we have jamie resturning to cersei I think we can also have tyrion returning to his familly… And before you saying you don t like it think about how it would make tyrion smart again instead of another chump...

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Daenerys, like Cersei have always been clear they will destroy anyone between them and the IT. Daenerys has more than once renewed the oath of Khal Drogo. Nothing about raping women and enslaving of children (I suppose Dothrakis consider it standard procedure). But Killing men in iron suits and tearing down stone houses, fine for her. More, Daenerys perfectly knows no one in Westeros want of her. But it does change nothing.

So what could happen was foreshadowed from a long time. This has been discussed in the book forums since a very, very long time, even before HBO and ADwD, Including the eventuality of a mad queen, like daddy.

The message is: Power is what people give you because you make their lives better and they believe in you. You get no peace by terrorizing and killing everyone who doesn't agree with you. The good ruler purpose is to protect his people, not to kill them.

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14 minutes ago, divica said:

At least it would be bittersweat. Everyone beliving in tyrion ang giving him another chance and in the end he was lying to everybody and some character die because of it.

If we have jamie resturning to cersei I think we can also have tyrion returning to his familly… And before you saying you don t like it think about how it would make tyrion smart again instead of another chump...

Why do we have to make Tyrion smart at the expense of Dany, then she will go mad and also have been totally taken by Tyrion and lost all those lives because of his ill intent and her stupidity?  Ugh.  At least w/Jamie there is long, long history of Jamie being loyal to Cersei above everything else, so while it's an unfortunate choice which guts his 'redemption' it is at least on the surface believable and somewhat consistent with his story.  Tyrion having been in betrayal mode since season 7 would be awful.  

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Why do we have to make Tyrion smart at the expense of Dany, then she will go mad and also have been totally taken by Tyrion and lost all those lives because of his ill intent and her stupidity?  Ugh.  At least w/Jamie there is long, long history of Jamie being loyal to Cersei above everything else, so while it's an unfortunate choice which guts his 'redemption' it is at least on the surface believable and somewhat consistent with his story.  Tyrion having been in betrayal mode since season 7 would be awful.  

Tyrion doing bad things to help his familly despite them not liking him very much is also his theme. In the show I think he only turns against the lannisters because tywin tried to kill him and used shae to do it. 

In season 7 tyrion reaches an agreement with cersei and jamie because they found out he didn t kill joff and jamie accepted that he had motives to kill tywin and cersei kind of forgives him when she doesn t kill him when they are alone. And despite disliking each other tyrion always helped cersei in defending the interests of the familly…

After season 7 the dislike between cersei and tyrion returned to how it was before he killed tywin… Given the fact that she is pregnant it would make sense for him to return to her side(the lannister side) as he was before...

And we would be making tyrion smart at the expense of everybody. danny, jon, jorah, varys and the most powerful brain in westeros aka sansa.

ps I don t know if in friki's leaks with tyrion betrayal danny becomes really mad...

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16 minutes ago, divica said:

Tyrion doing bad things to help his familly despite them not liking him very much is also his theme. In the show I think he only turns against the lannisters because tywin tried to kill him and used shae to do it. 

In season 7 tyrion reaches an agreement with cersei and jamie because they found out he didn t kill joff and jamie accepted that he had motives to kill tywin and cersei kind of forgives him when she doesn t kill him when they are alone. And despite disliking each other tyrion always helped cersei in defending the interests of the familly…

After season 7 the dislike between cersei and tyrion returned to how it was before he killed tywin… Given the fact that she is pregnant it would make sense for him to return to her side(the lannister side) as he was before...

And we would be making tyrion smart at the expense of everybody. danny, jon, jorah, varys and the most powerful brain in westeros aka sansa.

ps I don t know if in friki's leaks with tyrion betrayal danny becomes really mad...

Dany moving from protagonist to antagonist, e.g. absolute power corrupts, the ends do not justify the means and even the best intentioned heroes can lose their way is a much more profound ending and thematic conclusion than some BS of Tyrion Lannister being a treasonous assholes, who cares? what does that tell me?  

The problem isn't Dany turning mad/evil/failing...it's that the show has done an historically terrible job here in making this believable this close to the end of the show, so its going to not only PO fans, but it rings hollow, because we will see her go from heroic to manic without any of the decline and sadness that must come between those extremes.

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Dany moving from protagonist to antagonist, e.g. absolute power corrupts, the ends do not justify the means and even the best intentioned heroes can lose their way is a much more profound ending and thematic conclusion than some BS of Tyrion Lannister being a treasonous assholes, who cares? what does that tell me?  

The problem isn't Dany turning mad/evil/failing...it's that the show has done an historically terrible job here in making this believable this close to the end of the show, so its going to not only PO fans, but it rings hollow, because we will see her go from heroic to manic without any of the decline and sadness that must come between those extremes.

Technically you learn that blood is thicker than anything. Despite tyrion's familly being assholes he ends up staying on their side because they are his familly (which is also a theme in asoiaf for several characters).

Showing that danny is bad from other people's pov despite she seeing herself as good in her pov is obviously more profound. But the show simply can t sell this idea in a satisfatory way given all the previous episodes… On the other hand they could sell the tyrion treason… 

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I think Dany's story will be way, WAY more developped in the books of course, and I expect to see her going more and more to that "mad" side of her (don't like the word, but you see the idea). But I still think that in the end, she will overcome that (at least, I really hope so). It will make way more sense than in the ultra condensed show.

About Tyrion, I guess at some point we will know what him and Cersei told each other at the end of season 7. There was certainly a negotiation. Of course there is the family side, of course Cersei "promised" him to send armies to the North, but I think that the one thing Cersei could also give him, and that he always wanted, would be naming him Lord of Casterly Rock (whether she really intends to do it or not is another question).

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