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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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43 minutes ago, Maelia said:

I think Dany's story will be way, WAY more developped in the books of course, and I expect to see her going more and more to that "mad" side of her (don't like the word, but you see the idea). But I still think that in the end, she will overcome that (at least, I really hope so). It will make way more sense than in the ultra condensed show.

About Tyrion, I guess at some point we will know what him and Cersei told each other at the end of season 7. There was certainly a negotiation. Of course there is the family side, of course Cersei "promised" him to send armies to the North, but I think that the one thing Cersei could also give him, and that he always wanted, would be naming him Lord of Casterly Rock (whether she really intends to do it or not is another question).

This theory about Cersei and Tyrion conspiring against everyone else, has a major problem though, she sent  Bronn North to kill both him and Jaime.

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6 minutes ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

This theory about Cersei and Tyrion conspiring against everyone else, has a major problem though, she sent  Bronn North to kill both him and Jaime.

But Bronn didn't kill them, and Cersei knew last season already that Bronn could betray her in favour of the brothers.

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9 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

But Bronn didn't kill them, and Cersei knew last season already that Bronn could betray her in favour of the brothers.

Could, would...you don't send someone to kill the person you rely on to betray your enemy and seal your victory, and just hope for the best. 

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1 hour ago, divica said:

Technically you learn that blood is thicker than anything. Despite tyrion's familly being assholes he ends up staying on their side because they are his familly (which is also a theme in asoiaf for several characters).

Showing that danny is bad from other people's pov despite she seeing herself as good in her pov is obviously more profound. But the show simply can t sell this idea in a satisfatory way given all the previous episodes… On the other hand they could sell the tyrion treason… 

I agree with Tyrion betraying Dany. I don't think he actually decided to jump Dany's ship until his treason-convo with Varys. It's clear that people are meant to believe that Tyrion contemplates going over to Jon during the conversation, because that is Varys's intention. But when Tyrion admits to having treasonous thoughts, he does not specify which side he's going to jump. He sounds profoundly sad and miserable, as if he feels his back is against the wall, defeated, in this scene. If he was contemplating Jon to commit treason for, it does not fit with his tone imo. It's quite clear that Tyrion is torn between the dream he wanted to believe in to be fighting for a better world, and the opposite of that... imo back to an alliance with his messed up sister.

There is a hint of a potential agreement between Tyrion and Cersei, once Jaime arrives and reveals Cersei is not sending an army.I do think he believed Cersei was going to send her army, but one of the first things he wants to know is whether Cersei is truly pregnant or not.

It is at the parlay that he betrays Dany and goes over to Cersei's side (quite literally, as he literally jumped ship in the same episode prior). He loudly declares Cersei not to be a monster, a mother who always loved her children. He even seems to slightly signal to Cersei, "Ok, do it." He knows Cersei too well. He knows she's going to kill Missandei and that Dany will bring down fire and blood on the city for it. Dany will never be accepted as queen for it. And when it comes between choosing Jon (who is Starkish) or his own blood, he chooses his own blood. Tyrion was very much going through the motions of a sharade here. And Cersei: she tears up and smiles almost relieved, and then gives the go-ahead.

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5 hours ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

We feel terrible - can u imagine how kit and emelia must have felt. I am not sure they filmed multiple endings. The start targaryen motifs on t shirt might mean something positive ?

Yeah, that Stark/Targ shirt means something positive alright.  They positively want to make as much money as they can before any more of the fan base washes their hands of the show, and the merchandise.  I really can't imagine how the cast must have felt reading the Ds drivel, now and over the years.  Like the rest of us, without another season for a chance to course correct, I suspect the cast has issues as well. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

Could, would...you don't send someone to kill the person you rely on to betray your enemy and seal your victory, and just hope for the best. 

She didn't actually send him to kill her brothers. She knew he wouldn't kill them, just like all of us knew. Bronn was the unwitting messenger, not through his words, but by carrying the crossbow that Tyrion gifted Joffrey - her son Tyrion swears he is innocent of killing; the crossbow that made Tyrion a kinslayer. Time to prove loyalty to his family over anything else.

Edited by sweetsunray

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If HBO is running a anti-spoiler campaign by releasing many, many spoilers, they have done a terrific job.  Having read all the spoilers I could get, between Reddit, and this site, I surrender.  And Yes, no matter what happens, Martin will have it developed in the books, with care and logic and foresight.

My Spoiler - Jon leaves KL, and heads North, to live with the freefolk, Tormund as his neighbor, and Ghost as his friend.  Dany can come if she wants and if she is still alive. 

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4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I agree with Tyrion betraying Dany. I don't think he actually decided to jump Dany's ship until his treason-convo with Varys. It's clear that people are meant to believe that Tyrion contemplates going over to Jon during the conversation, because that is Varys's intention. But when Tyrion admits to having treasonous thoughts, he does not specify which side he's going to jump. He sounds profoundly sad and miserable, as if he feels his back is against the wall, defeated, in this scene. If he was contemplating Jon to commit treason for, it does not fit with his tone imo. It's quite clear that Tyrion is torn between the dream he wanted to believe in to be fighting for a better world, and the opposite of that... imo back to an alliance with his messed up sister.

There is a hint of a potential agreement between Tyrion and Cersei, once Jaime arrives and reveals Cersei is not sending an army.I do think he believed Cersei was going to send her army, but one of the first things he wants to know is whether Cersei is truly pregnant or not.

It is at the parlay that he betrays Dany and goes over to Cersei's side (quite literally, as he literally jumped ship in the same episode prior). He loudly declares Cersei not to be a monster, a mother who always loved her children. He even seems to slightly signal to Cersei, "Ok, do it." He knows Cersei too well. He knows she's going to kill Missandei and that Dany will bring down fire and blood on the city for it. Dany will never be accepted as queen for it. And when it comes between choosing Jon (who is Starkish) or his own blood, he chooses his own blood. Tyrion was very much going through the motions of a sharade here. And Cersei: she tears up and smiles almost relieved, and then gives the go-ahead.

I totally agree with you, I think it would make perfect sense with everything we've seen so far.

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3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

She didn't actually send him to kill her brothers. He was the unwitting messenger, not through his words, but by carrying the crossbow that Tyrion gifted Joffrey, the crossbow that made Tyrion a kinslayer. Time to prove loyalty to his family over anything else.

You give the writers too much credit lol. No way they would have come up with this crossbow metaphor. Too much must have happened of screen for this theory to work out.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

You give the writers too much credit lol. No way they would have come up with this crossbow metaphor. Too much must have happened of screen for this theory to work out.

I loathe the writers for years and years. But they've tried to hard to make Tyrion look innocent and naive in the viewer's eyes. And we know how they love to subvert expectations. Nevertheless they seeded it with little hints here and there.

Edited by sweetsunray

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7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

She didn't actually send him to kill her brothers. She knew he wouldn't kill them, just like all of us knew. Bronn was the unwitting messenger, not through his words, but by carrying the crossbow that Tyrion gifted Joffrey - her son Tyrion swears he is innocent of killing; the crossbow that made Tyrion a kinslayer. Time to prove loyalty to his family over anything else.

That's not Cersei.  It isn't how she works and it isn't how the show works about 80% of the time either.  Why would she know he wouldn't kill them?  She doesn't even know Bronn has never had a scene with him.  

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8 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I agree with Tyrion betraying Dany. I don't think he actually decided to jump Dany's ship until his treason-convo with Varys. It's clear that people are meant to believe that Tyrion contemplates going over to Jon during the conversation, because that is Varys's intention. But when Tyrion admits to having treasonous thoughts, he does not specify which side he's going to jump. He sounds profoundly sad and miserable, as if he feels his back is against the wall, defeated, in this scene. If he was contemplating Jon to commit treason for, it does not fit with his tone imo. It's quite clear that Tyrion is torn between the dream he wanted to believe in to be fighting for a better world, and the opposite of that... imo back to an alliance with his messed up sister.

There is a hint of a potential agreement between Tyrion and Cersei, once Jaime arrives and reveals Cersei is not sending an army.I do think he believed Cersei was going to send her army, but one of the first things he wants to know is whether Cersei is truly pregnant or not.

It is at the parlay that he betrays Dany and goes over to Cersei's side (quite literally, as he literally jumped ship in the same episode prior). He loudly declares Cersei not to be a monster, a mother who always loved her children. He even seems to slightly signal to Cersei, "Ok, do it." He knows Cersei too well. He knows she's going to kill Missandei and that Dany will bring down fire and blood on the city for it. Dany will never be accepted as queen for it. And when it comes between choosing Jon (who is Starkish) or his own blood, he chooses his own blood. Tyrion was very much going through the motions of a sharade here. And Cersei: she tears up and smiles almost relieved, and then gives the go-ahead.

They had to have some kind of agreement since the dragonpit scene. If there is a treason I think we have cersei calling jamie the stupid lannister for believing that she would go north and sansa telling tyrion that she thought he was smart enough to know cersei won t come for a reason. 

It might be just an agreement to make danny go north and figth the others while cersei prepares for her, but there needs to be something...

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

That's not Cersei.  It isn't how she works and it isn't how the show works about 80% of the time either.  Why would she know he wouldn't kill them?  She doesn't even know Bronn has never had a scene with him.  

Maybe it was just qyburn that wanted the lannisters dead in order to make cersei madder?

I mean, she has had multiple chances to kill either of the brothers in last season finale and last ep and she did nothing. However she wants bronn to kill them?

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6 minutes ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

You give the writers too much credit lol. No way they would have come up with this crossbow metaphor. Too much must have happened of screen for this theory to work out. 

Yes, but it's kind of how they work, isn'it ? Remember that awful Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger thing last season ? Almost all off screen...
 

2 minutes ago, divica said:

They had to have some kind of agreement since the dragonpit scene. If there is a treason I think we have cersei calling jamie the stupid lannister for believing that she would go north and sansa telling tyrion that she thought he was smart enough to know cersei won t come for a reason.  

It might be just an agreement to make danny go north and figth the others while cersei prepares for her, but there needs to be something...

I still think that Cersei proposing him to be Lord of Casterly Rock could work. Maybe he was reluctant at first, but seeing Dany turning "mad" and the offer being too tempting, could make him finally accept it.

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Nevertheless for Tyrion to even stand up for Cersei who locked him and forced into exile it’s so stupid. 

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1 minute ago, divica said:

Maybe it was just qyburn that wanted the lannisters dead in order to make cersei madder?

I mean, she has had multiple chances to kill either of the brothers in last season finale and last ep and she did nothing. However she wants bronn to kill them?

Why would Qyburn want them dead?  How could he trust Bronn to keep that secret?  

My guess is they wrote that in as fan service to give Bronn another couple of scenes, his scenes were all dumb fan service.  That's the answer.

Cersei didn't kill everyone at the parlay because the showrunners suck, that's it.  Not because of some other plot with Tyrion or other BS, Dinklage is not that good of an actor, or, he's not supposed to be playing a double game here because there isn't any sense of that in his acting, it's the same way people kept saying about Shae, she didn't really love him, her 'true' self would be revealed, but that isn't what the actor put on the screen and Dinklage is not putting any signs in his performance that he is double dealing here. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, divica said:

They had to have some kind of agreement since the dragonpit scene. If there is a treason I think we have cersei calling jamie the stupid lannister for believing that she would go north and sansa telling tyrion that she thought he was smart enough to know cersei won t come for a reason. 

It might be just an agreement to make danny go north and figth the others while cersei prepares for her, but there needs to be something...

I don't think there was a sealed-done-deal bargain between Tyrion and Cersei, but more something along the lines of Cersei demanding assurances from him that he will save her and her unborn child when the time comes, to prove his words that he never wanted to harm her or her children in actions, that he would do what needed to be done to protect her from his Targaryen queen. Tyrion agreed to this most certainly, but doing so in the belief he and Dany had all the advantage and that Dany wouldn't go fire & blood on Cersei and KL. 

Edited by sweetsunray

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5 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Nevertheless for Tyrion to even stand up for Cersei who locked him and forced into exile it’s so stupid. 

Show Tyrion doesn't hate Cersei like book Tyrion does.

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I have very low expectations from the last two episodes, but I wouldn't get upset about spoilers, like many seem to be.  At this point the spoilers are all out of context, and in many cases mixed with fanfiction.

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Why would Qyburn want them dead?  How could he trust Bronn to keep that secret?  

My guess is they wrote that in as fan service to give Bronn another couple of scenes, his scenes were all dumb fan service.  That's the answer.

Cersei didn't kill everyone at the parlay because the showrunners suck, that's it.  Not because of some other plot with Tyrion or other BS, Dinklage is not that good of an actor, or, he's not supposed to be playing a double game here because there isn't any sense of that in his acting, it's the same way people kept saying about Shae, she didn't really love him, her 'true' self would be revealed, but that isn't what the actor put on the screen and Dinklage is not putting any signs in his performance that he is double dealing here. 

And she didn t kill jamie and tyrion in last season's finale but orders bronn to do it in 8.1 why?

It doesn t make any sense! When she is near them she doesn t want to kill them and when they go away the mudereous itch appears?

And as far as we know when bronn talks with qyburn about sucessfully killing them qyburn would just poison him in order to keep him quiet...

At this point anything is possible… Nothing makes much sense.

Hell what are cersei's plans for danny that she referes in ep 8.1? 

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