Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[longest night]

22 minutes ago, TNTW said:

Proven source gave new info on freefolk. Yuck.

Yes, it's the same info we've known about for awhile just regurgitated.

Edit: Scratch that, it's not. The contradictory leaks say Daenerys never makes it to the throne.

[House Cambodia]

1 hour ago, longest night said:

The greater role of taking over the world.

“If a twelve-year old has to conquer the world, then so be it.”

-GRRM

There was a time when *cough* children did rule the world.

[longest night]

So we have these separate leaks.

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• Jon pledges himself to Dany but then stabs her, then surrenders himself.

• A council gets formed to decide who the King should be. Tyrion gives a speech and everyone votes on Bran to become King. The end.

• In the epilogue, Jon takes the black again for killing Dany. Arya leaves. Sansa rules the North. Bran oversees his council of Tyrion, Davos, Sam, and Bronn.

• Jon doesn't kill Dany in a moment of madness. It's more like she becomes hellbent on a particular mode of justice that Jon realizes he will not be able to discourage.

• When they're deciding who to elect as king, Sam suggests holding a democratic election and the other nobles laugh at him. That's before they vote on Bran.
• On Jon taking the black: I'm really unclear about why Jon takes the black, but it seems more like he makes the decision himself, or that he makes the decision in conjunction with other people. It doesn't seem like he's forced to do it, or at least not that he's doing it against his will. He's pretty defeated after killing Dany. I don't know 100% about Jon's epilogue but he's not just going north to just retire out in the wild, it's definitely related to the Night's Watch. Taking the black is what makes him no longer a legitimate heir to the throne.

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• Dany turns evil and that the actual ending is bittersweet.

• When asked if Jon kills Dany and the Iron Throne is destroyed. Source said that it was the closest anyone has guessed.

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• When Daenerys is making her speech everyone is mad at her. Tyrion makes some comment (he doesn't get sound) and throws his pin (?) on the ground and she sends him to the prison? Idk what was going on here.

• Danaerys actually DOES die, she's killed (stabbed I think) by Jon Snow. She goes back to the throne room and touches the throne. Has no idea WHY he kills her, there's a missing chunk. but it happens in the throne room. I asked him why and he said he doesn't know and I don't even think they saw the actual death scene, just the fact that she's dead. so he's only assuming she gets murdered, otherwise she commits suicide but that doesn't make much sense. Then the dragon flies away with her body but doesn't kill Snow. Either way, she dies.

At some point Dany is walking down stairs or something and Jon sees her and the dragon is behind her and it looks like she has giant dragon wings. Uh, not a spoiler, but it's cool apparently.

Dany doesn't get to actually sit on the throne. She touches it though.

Tyrion sits at the table or 'council' or something at the end? He seems to think this was cool or like, a reference to the beginning or something.

He doesn't know anything about Bran.

There's some sort of battle where there were the faces of the dead or something, I don't know if this makes sense?

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Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The *council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran Should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand.

Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the wall and join the Knights Watch. Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been.

The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon doesnt stay at the wall he reunites with Tormund and Ghost.

Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him.

Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned (i asked because she's alive). Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people to fill those spots. They don't clarify what Bran did when he was in warg during The Long Night. Did i forget to mention the most important detail about this entire episode? our good boy gets a pat from Jon.

Then there's this...

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Lots of "teleporting" and speeches in this episode.

Scene starts with people celebrating victory in King's Landing

Dany gives a speech in dothraki/valyrian and "english" languages

Jon confronts Dany about her madness

Cue emotional scene

Dany justifies her actions

Sansa convinces Arya that Dany is a threat to the family by telling her that Dany won't stop for anything to remain on the iron throne.

She tells her "you know what has to be done".

She attempts to kill Dany but Jon stops her.

Dany wants to punish Arya for attemtped regicide.

Jon realizes that his family is in danger as long as Dany is around.

40 mins in, he kills her. Very emotional scene.

Short conflict between Dany's army and Jon's army take place.

Grey worm duels Jon in a 1v1 after seeing Dany's corpse and blood on Jon's sword.

Grey worm dies.

Jon stops the battle, gives a speech and tells everyone to go home.

The next 20 minutes shows Bran being elected king. Something about how three eyed raven is unbiased in politics.

Council formed. Tyrion for KL. New prince for Dorne. Yara for Iron islands. Bronn hand of the king for Tyrion.

Sansa insists on becoming independent in the north. Some people don't like it but they accept.

Final act shows us Sam reading about the children of the forest history.

Sam discovers that cotf have a plan to wipe out all humanity on westeros by using the three-eyed raven as an "inside man".

Sam discovers that the last three-eyed raven (Max Sydow) was actually a prisoner for thousands of years and he wanted the release of death.

Sam rushes to Jon to tell him about his discovery and that Bran should be killed.

After Jon is finally convinced, Bran gets killed in the iron throne room.

People don't believe the cotf story so they banish/punish Jon by exiling him to the north, beyond the wall, with the freefolks. Jon accepts.

He meets Tormund and Ghost and live happily ever after.

Back at King's Landing. Tyrion gives a speech and suggests an idea.

Tyrion suggests to destroy the iron throne and all kingdoms become independent. The council is reluctant at first but accept in the end.

Iron throne is destroyed.

They show Arya saying goodbye to Gendry as she sails for Braavos.

Final scene is an overshot in the lands of always winter, some wildlings find some eggs, not dragon eggs. I don't know what eggs.

 

[House Cambodia]

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...the last three-eyed raven (Max Sydow) was actually a prisoner for thousands of years and he wanted the release of death.

Wasn't he Bloodraven, a historical Targaryen from nearer 300 years ago?

Who knows which if either are close to the mark? I'm good with that - I can avoid the temptation to read the spoilers but at the same time I want to be surprised!

[longest night]

Just now, House Cambodia said:

Wasn't he Bloodraven, a historical Targaryen from nearer 300 years ago?

Who knows which if either are close to the mark? I'm good with that - I can avoid the temptation to read the spoilers but at the same time I want to be surprised!

That's the book.

[Lollygag]

13 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Wasn't he Bloodraven, a historical Targaryen from nearer 300 years ago?

Who knows which if either are close to the mark? I'm good with that - I can avoid the temptation to read the spoilers but at the same time I want to be surprised!

In season 4 he may have been BR. He had both eyes (I think) but he said he watched with 1000 eyes and one, so . They recast him for some reason. BR is only a bit beyond the longest plausible life-span and near the end of his rope in ADWD. 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Brynden_Rivers

[longest night]

What I find interesting about most of the leaks is it doesn't quite line up with /u/afraidpart leak which says.

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There's some sort of battle where there were the faces of the dead or something, I don't know if this makes sense?

There's nothing remotely like that in almost all the leaks and afraidpart is by far the most reliable, he leaked almost everything almost a year ago. No battle at all is mentioned in all but the one that stands out among the rest, and that one doesn't seem to lineup either. His source is an animator on the VFX team.

Then there's this from afraidpart.

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Danaerys actually DOES die, she's killed (stabbed I think) by Jon Snow. She goes back to the throne room and touches the throne. Has no idea WHY he kills her, there's a missing chunk. but it happens in the throne room. I asked him why and he said he doesn't know and I don't even think they saw the actual death scene, just the fact that she's dead. so he's only assuming she gets murdered, otherwise she commits suicide but that doesn't make much sense. Then the dragon flies away with her body but doesn't kill Snow. Either way, she dies.

Dany doesn't get to actually sit on the throne. She touches it though.

Which contradicts

Quote

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

 

[NonoNono]

I think this only makes sense if Dany kills herself. It would explain why Grey Worm doesn’t kill Jon, and is standing there while the council is figuring things out and Jon is prisoner (probably because no one  is sure if Jon did it or not) and especially why Drogon wouldn’t burn Jon and only burn the throne; he is angry that his mother died over this.

Maybe my theory that Dany was actually not a Targaryen is true after all, something Bran would finally reveal to her (in the books, by telling her about the red door and lemon tree). She was some poor child taken in Essos by Willem Darry because she looked like a Targ so he wanted to make use of the two kids. Would be quite a twist in the books if it turns out she was a fake and fAegon was real (especially if she killed him for being a supposed fake).

So she kills herself and Jon pities her.

The only reason she hatched the dragons or was not burnt was because of blood magic. That hot bath, she felt it, she just wanted to obey her brother who had essentially brainwashed her by then through abuse.

The Targaryens probably started off as nobodies who used Fire & Blood magic to become powerful.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

This is the episode summary the freefolk believe is accurate (the one above that ends with Arya going to Braavos sounds like BS):

Jon, Davos and Tyrion are walking through the aftermath of Kings Landing. Tyrion walks through what's left of the castle and sees Jaime's hand so he starts to uncover the rubble and he confirms both Cersei and Jaime are dead. They find Grey Worm and his men they have Lannister Soldiers trapped and they're about to kill them. Jon trys to tells Grey Worm to stop. Grey Worm tells Jon that its the queens orders. Jon and Tyrion are upset. At some point Dany is walking down stairs and Jon sees her and the dragon is behind her and it looks like she has giant dragon wings. Then they cut to Dany giving a speech pretty much saying how she freed the people from Kings Landing and the new goal is freeing the rest of the world. Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her that she killed thousands of innocent people and he takes off the hands pin and throws it. Dany sends him to prison.

Tyrion tries to convince Jon to turn on Dany. His family will never be safe because it threatens Dany's legitimacy.
He's also convinced by Tyrion that his family will never be safe because he presents a threat to her rule. Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop this madness and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. Tyrion is in front of the council as a prisoner of Grey Worm he isn't making decision he is content with being a prisoner he makes suggestions only. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand. Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the Wall and join the Nights Watch. (Tirion said Greyworm wanted him dead and Sansa wanted him back home so nobody is getting what they want, it's a fair compromise.) Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been. The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon, Ghost, Tormund, and a bunch of Wildlings leaving the Wall and heading north

Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him. Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned. Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people to fill those spots.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On 5/13/2019 at 11:06 AM, lakin1013 said:

I refuse to believe the Jon spoilers as they are now, because they make no sense.  Bran cannot end up as King, and I will never believe that that is what Martin has in mind.   Martin has provided surprises and twists to the story, but he has always been fair and logical with the reader.  Bran is emotionally stunted, zones in and out, and appears to be unsure which world he inhabits. He cannot be the best choice to lead a terrorized city.  It makes much better sense to have Arya, who sees what is going on and what will happen to Jon, kills Dany.  Jon is then prevailed upon to take the throne as there is nobody else available and Jon has the best claim.  Someone who never wanted it, gets it but will always know the cost in terms of lives.   That would be a bittersweet moment.

Remember that Show! Bran is not Book! Bran

[House Cambodia]

26 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Hound doesn't get mentioned

Hound is dead. It's all plausible if a total damp squib completely WTF-free.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On 5/13/2019 at 5:29 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

The Hodor thing I forgot. But i still doubt bran is coming back to WF like on the show, I just think itll all be so insanely different.

and no no no way will accept this as Dany’s ending til I read the books. Much of her story makes no sense if she’s just going to be ‘mad’ in the end. Uh-uh no way.

Benioff and Weiss have been foreshadowing King Brandon Stark since episode 1. The original intro had a raven fly across Westeros to land on the throne and the season 1 Iron Throne teaser had a raven spreading its wings across the Iron Throne 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On 5/14/2019 at 8:13 AM, Mystical said:

Probably watching Stark home videos again. Maybe watching Sansa get raped to see if he could get a boner what with Vary's comment about a functioning penis being needed in order to rule. Or maybe he was already picking his outfit for when he's won everything. Which he already knows since he can see the future. If 3ER becomes King of everything, he's been the smartest player in Westeros. Also the most evil. But poor Bran then, he died so most evil player on the continent could hijack his body in order to leave the cave and then 'kill' a million+ people just to be the ruler of everything.

Bran’s body wasn’t hijacked. Isaac made that very clear. Bran is still part of the Three Eyed Raven Bran but Bran’s memories are just a small part of the the current Bran because he has memories of the entire history of the world that it’s smashed his personality. 

 

It’s the opposite of Resurrected! Beric who loses something of himself every time he’s resurrected. 

 

Bran gained memories that are warping his personality. 

It’s like when GRRM says that Cat and Lady Stoneheart aren’t the same person. There’s a continuance of consciousness but because LS is missing aspects of Cat, she’s not the same person.

[HouseLancaster]

9 hours ago, Nightwish said:

Honestly what's the good in this situation? 

Bran was the one who notified John about the WW gathering and from there John panicked and this set all the Wight expedition into motion resulting in thousands of lives being lost. What if they hadn't managed to kill the NK? 

Theoretically speaking Bran should have known with his notion and understanding of the world as 3eyeR that the Others had no way to pass the wall.

So what was the so special thing that made him send a note? 

His special warning abilities only served an awfully risky and bad plan. And from there the domino started until we reached Kings Landing fiasco.

It's awful that he ends up another "used" and at the same time "useless" character that the script writers transform into a vehicle for doom and not for salvation. 

As a basic example the good is that they were trying to stop the WW, it's not like Wildlings weren't been slaughtered. Everything else is just interpretation and assumptions based on how events unfolded. 

There is no justification based on what has been presented to us to make Bran responsible for decisions Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion etc have made with regards to the WW and Kings Landing. It's hindsight on a rediculous scale for events/people, as far we know, he had no impact over.

[divica]

25 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

This is the episode summary the freefolk believe is accurate (the one above that ends with Arya going to Braavos sounds like BS):

Are we supposed to like that crap? 

[divica]

20 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Remember that Show! Bran is not Book! Bran

Book bran is supposed to not leave a cave

[HouseLancaster]

10 hours ago, longest night said:

Bran died in that tree. Bran no longer exists and since the 3EC has taken control, we've learned very little of anything of what it has done. No one has yet to give a good explanation of why this 3EC who he himself says is not Bran, would care who Jon's parentage is. It didn't matter to the battle against the Others. Why did Bran need Sam to tell Jon who he is at that very moment when Sam was at his most emotional.

 

 

Yep, all good points no one who has watched the show can claim to have an answer for. Well, beyond bad writing. Maybe they are planning to pull a 3ER is evil twist at the end, I don't know. At the moment, it seems like we're supposed to think he's good - and right now I don't think D&Ds plotting deserves any deeper interpretation than that

[Lord_Ravenstone]

11 hours ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

Did jon have a right to know? - YES

Should he have been told at that specific time? - NO 

Has this news snowballed out of control and caused chaos - YES

Is this Bran we are talking about or 3ER. Bran is no more, but we perceive him as Bran. The news of Jons ID has served no one but has resulted in 1000s of deaths,

If Bran was not part of the story, jon and dany would have been married and the realm united. No wall coming down, no varys death, etc.

Is Bran evil - No

Is the 3ER 'Evil' - YES or has perpertrated acts that have had no benefit to humanity.

And if Bran warged dany/drogon then they have the perfect weapon to extinguish humanity. The mad king could also have been an failed attempt - why is this important - we have no more flashbacks about this apart from the potential link to dany - and she may have been a convienient fall guy/girl.

I like the 3ER as the big bad more than what we currently have...tbh we have no idea what Bran/3ER has been doing and all complaining he has been do sweet fa

as for lightbringer….

Darkness lay over the world and a hero (city of ashes?/KL), Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water ( Fight against the NK?), the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart (Fight against Lannisters/KL), but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew before hand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast (Dany). He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, while her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon (fuck knows - arya?) .^[1]

According to the Jade Compendium, since that day the sword became as warm as Nissa Nissa was and burned fiery hot during battles. Lightbringer was able to boil the blood of a monster when Azor Ahai thrust the sword through the belly of the beast. After steam poured from the beast's mouth and its eyes melted, its body burst into flame.^[2

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

Three Eyed Raven is part Bran still:

There's a sense of … I wouldn't necessarily say "joy," but there's still a part of Bran in the Three-Eyed Raven. He remembers what it was like to be Bran. Usually, his mind is occupied with so many other things. But when he's there in Winterfell, surrounded by so much of his family and so many people he hasn't seen in such a long time, it certainly flares up the parts of his brain that are Bran. I think there's a flicker of him thinking, "Good to see you again. It's been interesting to see your journey."

[longest night]

6 minutes ago, HouseLancaster said:

Yep, all good points no one who has watched the show can claim to have an answer for. Well, beyond bad writing. Maybe they are planning to pull a 3ER is evil twist at the end, I don't know. At the moment, it seems like we're supposed to think he's good - and right now I don't think D&Ds plotting deserves any deeper interpretation than that

I hope for the sake of ASOIAF that Bran ends up being evil and thwarted because at this point, who the hell wants Bran on the throne at the end of the books? I may just move on from the book series if that's the end of the TV show.

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

1 minute ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

 

Three Eyed Raven is part Bran still:

There's a sense of … I wouldn't necessarily say "joy," but there's still a part of Bran in the Three-Eyed Raven. He remembers what it was like to be Bran. Usually, his mind is occupied with so many other things. But when he's there in Winterfell, surrounded by so much of his family and so many people he hasn't seen in such a long time, it certainly flares up the parts of his brain that are Bran. I think there's a flicker of him thinking, "Good to see you again. It's been interesting to see your journey."

ITS A CON - HE IS PLAYING THEM. HE IS LITTLEFINGERS DREAM...