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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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I can see Bran ending up on the throne in GRRM's story, the first chapter is from his POV so it ties up to have the last chapter be his POV as he sits on the throne.

But I am surprised GRRM would have a god-like magic-user become king at the end. Doesn't seem his style, considering how cynical he is about religion and how dangerous magic is portrayed in his story.

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Just now, Darryk said:

I can see Bran ending up on the throne in GRRM's story, the first chapter is from his POV so it ties up to have the last chapter be his POV as he sits on the throne.

But I am surprised GRRM would have a god-like magic-user become king at the end. Doesn't seem his style, considering how cynical he is about religion and how dangerous magic is portrayed in his story.

How do you see any plausible storyline in the books where the Lords of the Seven kingdoms make a Stark king of Westeros? On what basis? What is his claim based on? 

He has no claim. It is nonsense and will never happen in the books.

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46 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

But they didn’t need to, wildlings populations had been rescued and if there were wildings still existing now they had access to the safety of the wall. Or what was John’s arc all about? 

Since the show runners confirmed that the wall was protecting them for 8000 years and there was no reason why it shouldn’t keep doing that, Brans agony over the WW becomes another plot device for doom. 

When John gets Bran message he says “Bran saw them marching, if they make it past the wall”

Then Varys verifies that the wall kept them for a thousand years...

Right Varys. How doesn’t that make Bran totally useless for all the knowledge and special abilities he has? 

 

 

 

Ah but that's not what I was talking about. I was saying actions of certain characters, for example, the decision or idea to go North and grab a WW had nothing to do with Bran. 

Everything you've said seems to be more issues with bad writing, and a general lack of interest in explaining /exploring the mythology from the TV show makers. Tbf the explanations of the non magic elements of the show appear just as conflicting and half baked - but I'm beyond worrying about that stuff now

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Just now, Free Northman Reborn said:

How do you see any plausible storyline in the books where the Lords of the Seven kingdoms make a Stark king of Westeros? On what basis? What is his claim based on? 

He has no claim. It is nonsense and will never happen in the books.

I don't see it as likely right now but stuff could happen between now and then that makes it plausible. 

Gendry would make more sense since he actually has a claim to the throne, though maybe at this point people just don't care about who has claim anymore because the entire power structure has been wiped out? With so many great houses destroyed, maybe they just give up on that, so they call a Great Council and just elect whoever.

Bran obviously can't procreate at this point so there wouldn't be a royal line either. Admittedly it all seems a bit far-fetched, hence why I figured he'll be some kind of elected leader rather than a king, although a medieval society abandoning monarchy so suddenly also seems a bit out of left field.

But again, if you have a situation where the land is completely wrecked, which Westeros would be after several wars, the white walkers and the dragons, I guess it makes sense people would restructure their society.

 

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11 minutes ago, HouseLancaster said:

Ah but that's not what I was talking about. I was saying actions of certain characters, for example, the decision or idea to go North and grab a WW had nothing to do with Bran. 

Everything you've said seems to be more issues with bad writing, and a general lack of interest in explaining /exploring the mythology from the TV show makers. Tbf the explanations of the non magic elements of the show appear just as conflicting and half baked - but I'm beyond worrying about that stuff now

Yes but chain reaction. Of course it’s bad writing but if you see Brans contribution in the script as overall, you will see that for the character he is supposed to be, he fails to deliver anything of essence. For example Varys advice here was more wise that Bran the wise himself. 

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3 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Bran’s body wasn’t hijacked. Isaac made that very clear. Bran is still part of the Three Eyed Raven Bran but Bran’s memories are just a small part of the the current Bran because he has memories of the entire history of the world that it’s smashed his personality.

I don't give a damn what anyone says behind the scenes. Never have. The only thing that counts is what's on screen. And on screen we are repeatedly told that Bran is no more. Sure Bran is in there somewhere, a collective of probably thousands of 'minds' and thousands of years of history. Point is, Bran is not driving the bus. So I can't view his actions like I would Bran or any other normal human in that world.

And for the record, Isaac also has said that he has no clue about any of it because D&D don't. He's also contradicted himself sometimes in the same freaking interview about what the 3ER is or how much Bran is left and why he does what he does. The actor has no clue and is making it up in order to make sense of it, just like us. Why should I take his word as gospel when he doesn't know shit either?

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The show goes A to C to E, with nothing to bind that sequence. We are left to make assumptions and fill those unknowns with our imaginations. Now maybe that was the point. Maybe they think the majority want that. I personally just find it incredibly frustrating.

I am beyond caring who lives and dies, who rules in the end. It's the lack of cohesion that bothers me the most. All the questions that will be left unanswered. All the dead end story lines. 

Personally, the show was really just a time filler, a taste of the story, to keep me from starving while waiting for GRRM. I had hoped to at least find out some of the answers the books have left us hanging with. Mostly didn't happen. Still left waiting for books that may, or may not, ever be finished. Very unsatisfying.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nightwish said:

The reason that I deny seeing Bran as an evil character playing his own game here to bring conflict is because I don’t have faith in the script.

You don't need to have faith in the script. We've all had to make our own head canon for almost every storyline for years because the writers are so incompetent. I for one don't think D&D are that smart to come up with evil Bran (or rather evil 3ER). But it worked out that way, for ME. It's my head canon because I have to make sense of the story.

And it's very easy to track Bran's/3ER's journey through the Seasons and come to the conclusion that he's just another weapon of the CotF intended to wipe out humanity. Considering that we know for a fact that 3ER can see the future, all his actions in the present (and past) have to be viewed with that in mind. And when viewed like that, the only conclusion is that 3ER is anti-humanity. But of course humans are very useful for his own goals for now. Such as being meat shields to protect him from his own enemy, the other CotF weapon (NK) that went rogue.

He's known since S6 that Dany would destroy King's Landing. They brought that vision back in the last episode. He did nothing to stop it from happening. He knew Arya would kill the NK, hence giving her the dagger. So he clearly knows the future. That means he let all of KL burn and in fact was actively involved in bringing about Dany's madness via the timing of Jon's parentage reveal. He knew about the dumbest mission beyond the wall, in fact he send a panic letter to Dragonstone that pretty much set the mission in motion. He could have saved lives in the Long Night battle but he didn't. He could have saved KL.

Again do I think this was D&D's plan? Hell no. But viewing the story in this way is the only way for me to make sense of the plot. And that includes 3ER being the supreme ruler of Westros as his ultimate goal. He made sure neither of the 3 biggest current claimants (Cersei, Dany, Jon) will be sitting on it, paving the way for himself. And if it's true that Tyrion and Bronn are on his council...those are giant Neon sign's. Look how involved Tyrion has been in all the human-destroying action of the last 2 Seasons. Bronn has no loyalty to humanity. So these two on 3ER's council are perfect because they have no issues with watching the world burn as long as they are fine.

Edited by Mystical

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Of all plot threads currently unresolved? I'd like to think that Bran-3ER will have an indispensable part in the finale, good bad or indifferent.

When the show is all finished & done, I never never EVER! want to see/hear the word "bittersweet" again. Unless it's in reference to chocolate. :P

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Maybe the third Holy Shit moment is Bran standing up, accepting the role of Ruler, and indicating he is evil.  Reason?  When the NK scratched him, it was a horcrux.  I mean, why not?  If D&D wanted it, then they make it so.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Mystical said:

You don't need to have faith in the script. We've all had to make our own head canon for almost every storyline for years because the writers are so incompetent. I for one don't think D&D are that smart to come up with evil Bran (or rather evil 3ER). But it worked out that way, for ME. It's my head canon because I have to make sense of the story.

And it's very easy to track Bran's/3ER's journey through the Seasons and come to the conclusion that he's just another weapon of the CotF intended to wipe out humanity. Considering that we know for a fact that 3ER can see the future, all his actions in the present (and past) have to be viewed with that in mind. And when viewed like that, the only conclusion is that 3ER is anti-humanity. But of course humans are very useful for his own goals for now. Such as being meat shields to protect him from his own enemy, the other CotF weapon (NK) that went rogue.

He's known since S6 that Dany would destroy King's Landing. They brought that vision back in the last episode. He did nothing to stop it from happening. He knew Arya would kill the NK, hence giving her the dagger. So he clearly knows the future. That means he let all of KL burn and in fact was actively involved in bringing about Dany's madness via the timing of Jon's parentage reveal. He knew about the dumbest mission beyond the wall, in fact he send a panic letter to Dragonstone that pretty much set the mission in motion. He could have saved lives in the Long Night battle but he didn't. He could have saved KL.

Again do I think this was D&D's plan? Hell no. But viewing the story in this way is the only way for me to make sense of the plot. And that includes 3ER being the supreme ruler of Westros as his ultimate goal. He made sure neither of the 3 biggest current claimants (Cersei, Dany, Jon) will be sitting on it, paving the way for himself. And if it's true that Tyrion and Bronn are on his council...those are giant Neon sign's. Look how involved Tyrion has been in all the human-destroying action of the last 2 Seasons. Bronn has no loyalty to humanity. So these two on 3ER's council are perfect because they have no issues with watching the world burn as long as they are fine.

You are right and that's actually one of the most liberating posts that I have read. Because:

1. They are not going to explain anything probably.

2. The end will up to us to explain.

3. They write less and they don't bother, after all, the fans years now are explaining the script far better than they do. 

4. Its the end so no more information coming. Just what we can make out of it. 

It's very interesting this theory and you are right that it ties all loose ends together, bridging the gaps and also making a use out Bran who has ended up totally useless and stagnant. Very nice post. 

Edited by Nightwish

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4 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

In the meantime watching the number of people signing the petition increase every second is more entertaining than the show…

451 000 now

I expect it could hit almost a million by Monday if the leaks are true.

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3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I expect it could hit almost a million by Monday if the leaks are true.

D&D own the rights for GoT, they are the producers, as far as I understand. They sold GoT to HBO. So HBO can not remake it. It would have to be D&D all over again. I don't know if hitting me twice in the face, is such a good Idea. 

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3 minutes ago, T and A said:

D&D own the rights for GoT, they are the producers, as far as I understand. They sold GoT to HBO. So HBO can not remake it. It would have to be D&D all over again. I don't know if hitting me twice in the face, is such a good Idea. 

Yes, it's a complete exercise in futility, even if HBO owned all the rights they would never remake the last year of their most successful show ever, even if the last season was a failure and everyone hated it.  

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3 minutes ago, T and A said:

D&D own the rights for GoT, they are the producers, as far as I understand. They sold GoT to HBO. So HBO can not remake it. It would have to be D&D all over again. I don't know if hitting me twice in the face, is such a good Idea. 

None of the signatories is fooled: there will be no redoing. But maybe the message will get through.

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3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yes, it's a complete exercise in futility, even if HBO owned all the rights they would never remake the last year of their most successful show ever, even if the last season was a failure and everyone hated it.  

If it keeps going at this rate it will reach more than a million before the finale…

And it is more about sending a mensage. That fans aren t happy with this season. That D&D are awfull writers. That this season ruins the show. That next time someone should care about what is being written instead of feeding us crap...

I doubt many people really expect a redoo of the season...

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8 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

None of the signatories is fooled: there will be no redoing. But maybe the message will get through.

To what end? I’m disappointed myself, but that kind of stuff is ridiculous. 

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7 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

None of the signatories is fooled: there will be no redoing. But maybe the message will get through.

But what message exactly? What are they trying to achieve? GoT has a shitty 8th season compared to the other seven seasons. But it is still better than 90% of all the shows you have at this point. What are they demanding? It is ridicoulous. You have no right to expect anything from a TV Show. Some are good, some suck. That is how Entertainment works. HBO is a private company, not a federal owned susbidiary financed by tax payers. People signing those petitions are way more stupid than Dany when she forgot about the Iron fleet. 

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