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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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7 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

So Sansa is now in charge of Winterfell, but the family she fought so hard to preserve has scattered to the four winds. That’s . . . something, I guess. The weird thing is, I don’t think there are even any supporting Northern characters left at Winterfell, so she’ll be basically alone now.

Yeah, it's really hard to tell who's still alive.

1. Did any Wildings north of the Wall survive being turned into wights? Or is the entire population to consist of Tormund Crusoe and Dog Friday?

2. Has the North been decimated (properly speaking, that means losing 10% of its population) or virtually wiped out? Has winter actually come to stay with all the associated food shortages, or is there now a good climate, plenty of land and sufficient population to farm it?

3. Have the central and southern lands been much affected? A few heads of houses might be gone, but apart from the few soldiers on the loot train fried by Dany and the Lannister army massacred within KL, have other armies been much affected? Were the smallfolk massacred inside KL from the near locality such as Flea Bottom, or from all over the kingdom? It's quite feasible regions like The Reach will recover quickly with no marauding bands of bandits threatening security.

4. Have the Iron Islands lost three times as many sailors as their population can actually sustain, or does Yara have a viable population to rule over, and can they alter their age-old lifestyle of reaving and learn to appreciate possessions that they haven't murdered for?

 

So many questions ....

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The petition is amazing. Beyond demonstrating how personally invested so many people have become in GoT and its characters, it does perhaps demonstrate a disturbing tendency of millions to misinterpret what certain stories might mean--and where they might be going.

On the subject of misinterpreting characters: Bran. I have a feeling that in hindsight, far from being a useless character, nearly line that Bran has uttered this season will be shown to have had meaning. I also predict that Bran is still in there and is not controlled by an evil force. He will wind up being the one who saves the kingdom and he will wind up ruling.

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8 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

The petition is amazing. Beyond demonstrating how personally invested so many people have become in GoT and its characters, it does perhaps demonstrate a disturbing tendency of millions to misinterpret what certain stories might mean--and where they might be going.

On the subject of misinterpreting characters: Bran. I have a feeling that in hindsight, far from being a useless character, nearly line that Bran has uttered this season will be shown to have had meaning. I also predict that Bran is still in there and is not controlled by an evil force. He will wind up being the one who saves the kingdom and he will wind up ruling.

I think it just demonstrates that people don't appreciate writers butchering a series climax by voluntarily choosing to portray it in much less episodes than needed because they were in a rush to get it over with so they could move onto Star Wars.

Usually it's producers who screw things up, rather than the creatives, who mostly try to do right by the story but get rushed to meet deadlines. In this case it's the reverse; HBO were happy to give them as many episodes as needed, but they said "nah" and happily drove the series off a cliff.

Nothing will come of this petition, they won't remake season 8, the very idea is ridiculous, and I think most of the people signing it know that. It's just a way of sending a giant STFU to the showrunners.

 

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5 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I think it just demonstrates that people don't appreciate writers butchering a series climax by voluntarily choosing to portray it in much less episodes than needed because they were in a rush to get it over with so they could move onto Star Wars.

The guy that started it wrote:

Quote

 

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have proven themselves to be woefully incompetent writers when they have no source material (i.e. the books) to fall back on. 

This series deserves a final season that makes sense. 

 

So basically, it's a complaint about not getting the ending that is desired.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

I also predict that Bran is still in there and is not controlled by an evil force. He will wind up being the one who saves the kingdom and he will wind up ruling.

Anti-human does not equal evil. It depends on how you read the story after the finale. I'm sure there will be stuff with 3ER-Bran coming up, especially if he really takes the throne. But I doubt it's going to change my opinion on the story. The Children of the Forest win because the 3ER is their 'weapon'. Since it's been firmly established by now (and there are still people denying it) that the 3ER can see the future, just the last 2 Seasons alone the 3ER has watched the world burn. And not only that but he/it was instrumental in bringing it about. If the leaks about who will sit on the council also come true, Tyrion for example was just as instrumental in bringing all this destruction about. And he seems to be the head of the council that will be formed.

I mean, would you consider it evil if the Indians had a 3ER weapon at their disposal biding their time before taking the land back from the people who stole it? Or any nation that was conquered by a foreign force (and who destroyed everything that was holy to your people) and wanting to take it back?

Edited by Mystical

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3 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

The guy that started it wrote:

So basically, it's a complaint about not getting the ending that is desired.

He says "a final season that makes sense" so it seems to me it not making sense is his main criticism. Most of the angry reviews I'm seeing online say the overall direction of the ending makes sense but the execution was dismal because they rushed it.

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4 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Anti-human does not equal evil. It depends on how you read the story after the finale. I'm sure there will be stuff with 3ER-Bran coming up, especially if he really takes the throne. But I doubt it's going to change my opinion on the story. The Children of the Forest win because the 3ER is their 'weapon'. Since it's been firmly established by now (and there are still people denying it) that the 3ER can see the future, just the last 2 Seasons alone the 3ER has watched the world burn. And not only that but he/it was instrumental in bringing it about.

I do not disagree, and in fact, I'd go further and say that Bran/3ER putting some of these plans to "watch the world burn" were necessary to later achieve a more lasting peace. I do disagree with the theories floating around the fandom at large that the 3ER was some sort of deeper, darker evil threat.

10 minutes ago, Mystical said:

I mean, would you consider it evil if the Indians had a 3ER weapon at their disposal biding their time before taking the land back from the people who stole it?

I quoted this specifically because my own ancestors "won" federal land lottery land that was occupied by the Cherokee, and we are in possession of a diary written by a g-g-something grandfather, recalling the sorrow of the people as the troops rounded them up and marched them off on the Trail of Tears. No, I would not begrudge the Native Americans a 3EC.

 

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29 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

I'm still waiting to find out if Edmure is still in the dungeon...

The Starks kind of forgot about their uncle. Add to this list:

- The showrunners kind of forgot about Kinvara, Quaithe, Dorne, what Varys heard that night (mentioned in two seasons), that the crew of Eurons silence are mute.

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It would be totally cool if episode 6 were to focus on Essos only (Daario, Mereen, Quaithe, ...), and leave Westeros as is.

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1 hour ago, weirwoodface said:

The guy that started it wrote:

So basically, it's a complaint about not getting the ending that is desired.

Sorry but I don't agree.  Naturally, I have my favorite characters but I can think of several ends that would be reasonable and not involve my fav character.  If I can do it, others can as well.  

There are two main problems- the lack of fleshing out the very end, and the ability to write a compelling conclusion.  Remember, D&D were offered 10 eps and they refused it.  It shows.  It really shows.  We have a rushed end and we have an end that does not always make sense.  Even with 4 more episodes, we would be able to see the impact of losses on Dany,  we could see Bran display leadership (?), we could see Jon reflecting on the path he is on, we could see Arya as who she is: killer or social engineer, and we could see Sansa slowly move toward her goal.  But instead, tomorrow night, we will see it jumbled together and forced on us.

And about us - this board amazes me with the acuity, intelligence, and expertise of the posters.  Here I can have the War of the Roses broken down, battle formations explained, theories shared, and even the impact of time-relevant costuming.  These are not Dancing with the Stars normal viewers.  D&D made a judgement error who the audience was and made a show for folks who like spectacle. 

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Sometimes I wonder about what other people experience in life. In my experience, being a fan often means being disappointed. Of course, there are high points and enjoyable moments, but my teams lose more often than win. This fandom has been very enjoyable for me, and while this alleged ending isn't what I hoped for, I don't think I can complain at all. I do wish that the series had more time and incorporated more of the real story, but the show is still better than most I have seen on TV. 

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5 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Sorry but I don't agree.  Naturally, I have my favorite characters but I can think of several ends that would be reasonable and not involve my fav character.  If I can do it, others can as well.  

There are two main problems- the lack of fleshing out the very end, and the ability to write a compelling conclusion.  Remember, D&D were offered 10 eps and they refused it.  It shows.  It really shows.  We have a rushed end and we have an end that does not always make sense.  Even with 4 more episodes, we would be able to see the impact of losses on Dany,  we could see Bran display leadership (?), we could see Jon reflecting on the path he is on, we could see Arya as who she is: killer or social engineer, and we could see Sansa slowly move toward her goal.  But instead, tomorrow night, we will see it jumbled together and forced on us.

You know what? All of that is true, IMO. And I acknowledge that of course, the individual petitioners have different motivations for putting their names to the petition. But in the end, whether a person signs simply because they're heartsick to see their beloved Khaleesi destroyed, or because of complex reasonings involving story and characterization going back to the beginning, or because they're angry at all the wasted potential (as you outline above and I am very much in agreement with you; I actually think they misused some of the time they had in the last couple of seasons to better build up to this ), I think the petition comes down to a complaint about not getting the ending that is desired.

And it is amazing, largely because the person who wrote it put it up before the season even ended! 

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20 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

This is interesting:  The real reason fans hate the last season of game of thrones

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

From the article: 
"It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological"

I had this reaction: 

mind explosion

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34 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

Sometimes I wonder about what other people experience in life. In my experience, being a fan often means being disappointed. Of course, there are high points and enjoyable moments, but my teams lose more often than win. This fandom has been very enjoyable for me, and while this alleged ending isn't what I hoped for, I don't think I can complain at all. I do wish that the series had more time and incorporated more of the real story, but the show is still better than most I have seen on TV. 

this was a really poor comparison. When a team loses fans demand some action so that the team can achieve sucess next time. No sports fan is happy or suportive if his team has a bad season… And depending on how bad the season his fans demand that the coach is fired or new players bought… People express their feelings and demand changes...

58 minutes ago, weirwoodface said:

I think the petition comes down to a complaint about not getting the ending that is desired.

But this happens because the story so far made fans want and expect other things to happen. If you pull a series of unbelivable actions to lead to an unsatisfying end then people won t be happy. And I don t mean that the end should be what fans want. But it has to be satisfying! Otherwise it is a failure.

This new trope of subverting expactations has to have logical support and be satisfying. This doesn t happen in GOT s8. And it hasn t happened in several episodes this season.

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5 minutes ago, divica said:

But this happens because the story so far made fans want and expect other things to happen. If you pull a series of unbelivable actions to lead to an unsatisfying end then people won t be happy. And I don t mean that the end should be what fans want. But it has to be satisfying! Otherwise it is a failure.

Yes. Personally, I thought "The Bells" was an amazing episode. It was the lack of buildup to the moment that is the problem. I'm going to wait until after I've digested the finale for a couple of days before I pass my own final judgment on the season.

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3 hours ago, Darryk said:

I think it just demonstrates that people don't appreciate writers butchering a series climax by voluntarily choosing to portray it in much less episodes than needed because they were in a rush to get it over with so they could move onto Star Wars.

Usually it's producers who screw things up, rather than the creatives, who mostly try to do right by the story but get rushed to meet deadlines. In this case it's the reverse; HBO were happy to give them as many episodes as needed, but they said "nah" and happily drove the series off a cliff.

Nothing will come of this petition, they won't remake season 8, the very idea is ridiculous, and I think most of the people signing it know that. It's just a way of sending a giant STFU to the showrunners.

 

That's it. If you are a fan/ supporter of a soccer-, football-, basketball- or whatsoever-Team, you know and accept that your team might and probably will lose some games. And if this happens, even a derby, you are sad for a certain time, and then, everything will be okay again - - - provided your team did their best. In that case nobody would sign a petition.

But if only your team´s defense (in this case the actors, the directors, the whole crew) did an excellent job, whilst the offense just strolled around on the match field, too lazy to score, showing their lack of interest, demonstrating their boredom, leaving hardly any doubt how much they disdain their fans and their audience, and if your favorite team therefore loses the game - - then you get very, very angry. 

And you sign a petition, hoping that thus these arrogant and lazy players of this offense will be sent into early retirement. And of course being absolutely certain that this terrible game will never be repeated.

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1 hour ago, Targaryen Peas said:

From the article: 
"It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological"

I had this reaction: 

mind explosion

I have to say, that's actually a very good article, and probably the best explanation I have read so far.

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3 hours ago, weirwoodface said:

Yes. Personally, I thought "The Bells" was an amazing episode. It was the lack of buildup to the moment that is the problem. I'm going to wait until after I've digested the finale for a couple of days before I pass my own final judgment on the season.

I didn't like "The Long Night" because the Others were supposed to be important. Needed everyone to deal with the threat. But only one saved the day. And the others either did nothing or died uselessly.

But I liked the next 2. I expected KL destruction. I expected Daenerys going rejected and bad, possibly going mad. Her bending the knee is too much like the slavery she pretends to liberate people from. D&D gave evidences, her eagerness for violence, but they were lost by most in the garbage of useless ranting they served us all these years.

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