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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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On 8/6/2018 at 8:57 PM, prettylongclaw said:

Mance Ryder: I was hoping your loyalty was real when you pledge yourself to us, trully Jon Snow

 Jon Snow: I was loyal, to Qhorin Halfhand and to my Nights Watch vows. 

 

Jon Snow lies, in fact he lies all the times in the books. Thats what I am trying to explain. He lied to Daenerys (at leats thats what I believe) because he has no plans to force his people to go fight in another war so that Daenerys can be queen. Now, hiw this will play out on season 8 I dont know, but I have no doubt that Jon has no plans to involve his people in another brutal war, just so that Dany can be queen. 

 

 

I don't get your point, and I don't think you could be any more wrong. For starters, John won't have to convince his people to March South and fight for Dany, Cersei will have already brought that war to him, so I don't see how he has to "force" anyone into fighting for Dany. Dany will be up in the North helping them to survive the impending invasion from the WW's, and meanwhile, Cersei is back-dooring the North. Not exactly a hard sell. 

Edited by Error-504

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8 hours ago, jcmontea said:

she was the best part of a AFFC. i found her chapters so much fun and entertaining. 

she also had the most chapters if I am not mistaken with ten... 

so not peripheral in that book. 

but I do agree in the sense that if it makes sense to speak in these terms, she was certainly a view point character earlier in the show than in the books 

I wonder how much of Cersei getting those chapters in AFFC and expanding her as a character in general was due to the split of AFFC/ADWD or dealing with the aging problem he was originally going to do. Whatever the reason, I am still happy with the choices in the end. I agree with you about her being the best part of AFFC. Her chapters really got me through that book.

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8 hours ago, Error-504 said:

I don't get your point, and I don't think you could be any more wrong. For starters, John won't have to convince his people to March South and fight for Dany, Cersei will have already brought that war to him, so I don't see how he has to "force" anyone into fighting for Dany. Dany will be up in the North helping them to survive the impending invasion from the WW's, and meanwhile, Cersei is back-dooring the North. Not exactly a hard sell. 

I understand your point, but as I said before the show didnt use the same quotes from season 1 just for fun and gigles. The fact that Tyrion still believes to be a great judge of character, when he has been fooled so many times its a important point in this story. They made sure to have both Jaime and Sansa telling us that they are slow learners who in the end DO LEARN.  While Tyrion, the one who always believes to be so smart, never fucking learns from his mistakes. A ruler must learn from their own mistakes in order to be a better governant.

They also had a priest advicing Daenerys to summon Jon Snow, remember the last time Dany trusted a soccerer? Daenery also never learns with her mistakes. The fact that she was ignoring her own advicers in the end and following Jon Snow ideas, a man she hardly knows proves that. Can you imagine Sansa ignoring Jon's plans and following some hot and misterious son of Lord Manderley? we would be all rolling our eyes to death. But we ignore Daeenrys foolish decisions because we like Jon Snow. 

Remember season 1 when Benjen Stark tells Tyrion that Ned always said that anything before the word BUT  is bullshit? why re use again in season 7? why make sure that Jon uses the word BUT while bending the knee to Daenerys? Those are not all coincidences. 

 

Now, I dont know how this will all go down, but there is a treason happening in season 8 and all the signs points to Jon Snow. 

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33 minutes ago, prettylongclaw said:

I understand your point, but as I said before the show didnt use the same quotes from season 1 just for fun and gigles. The fact that Tyrion still believes to be a great judge of character, when he has been fooled so many times its a important point in this story.

this is a reach. To the extent we are supposed to doubt Tyrion, it is with regards to his judgement of Cersei. There is zero reason to think Tyrion is wrong about Jon. We as the audience know Jon way better than Tyrion, and in this case he is correct. Jon is a good dude. 

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They made sure to have both Jaime and Sansa telling us that they are slow learners who in the end DO LEARN.  While Tyrion, the one who always believes to be so smart, never fucking learns from his mistakes. A ruler must learn from their own mistakes in order to be a better governant.

his mistakes are clear in the season, it is not trusting Jon Snow

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They also had a priest advicing Daenerys to summon Jon Snow, remember the last time Dany trusted a soccerer? Daenery also never learns with her mistakes.

this is a big reach... 

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The fact that she was ignoring her own advicers in the end and following Jon Snow ideas, a man she hardly knows proves that.

no. it really does not prove that at all, not when her own advisors had clearly been giving bad advice during the season 

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Can you imagine Sansa ignoring Jon's plans and following some hot and misterious son of Lord Manderley?

just not the same situation. we as the audience KNOW Jon. we get his point of view. 

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we would be all rolling our eyes to death. But we ignore Daeenrys foolish decisions because we like Jon Snow.

no. it is more than just liking. it is because Jon is the central view point character in the story and we know him on a fundamental level and know he is a good trustworthy guy... that is his characterization. 

THEON
You could have lied to Cersei.

About bending the knee to Daenerys. You risked everything, to tell an enemy the truth.

JON
We went down there to make peace.

And it seems to me we need to be honest with each other if we’re going to fight together.

THEON
You’ve always known what was right.

Even when we were all young and stupid, you always knew. Every step you take, it’s always the right step.

Quote

 

Remember season 1 when Benjen Stark tells Tyrion that Ned always said that anything before the word BUT  is bullshit? why re use again in season 7? why make sure that Jon uses the word BUT while bending the knee to Daenerys? Those are not all coincidences. 

this makes no sense. if we are being technical, he says but referring to i would bend the knee, not to when he calls her my queen. 

and more importantly, if he was really lying here.... he would not do what he did in 707. 

Quote

Now, I dont know how this will all go down, but there is a treason happening in season 8 and all the signs points to Jon Snow. 

lol.... 

all the signs point to Jon is one of the biggest overstatements I have ever heard...

all the signs only point to Jon if you are determined to look for those signs... 

if you actually pay attention to who Jon is as a character and a human being and his values.... you would realize that no, all the signs do not point to Jon 

and i will quote Jon again because it is worth emphasizing

"And it seems to me we need to be honest with each other if we’re going to fight together."

it makes no sense for Jon to say this to Theon after almost blowing the Dragonpit parlay for telling Cersei the truth if he has been lying to Daenerys the whole time.... these are not empty words... he clearly believes those words... how do we know? Because his actions demonstrate the belief. not sure it can get any more black and white than that

Edited by jcmontea

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Via Azor Ahype on YouTube about GRRM’s recent interview in Redwood City:

GRRM was asked about GOT successor shows and said that “we’re not going to see the stories of Jon Snow, Arya Stark and Tyrion continue on” after GOT. Seems like confirmation that those three characters survive, doesn’t it?

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4 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Via Azor Ahype on YouTube about GRRM’s recent interview in Redwood City:

GRRM was asked about GOT successor shows and said that “we’re not going to see the stories of Jon Snow, Arya Stark and Tyrion continue on” after GOT. Seems like confirmation that those three characters survive, doesn’t it?

Could def. read it that way. 

Although the statement would be true even if they died. 

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16 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Could def. read it that way. 

Although the statement would be true even if they died. 

Well, in at least two of those three cases, it already seemed very likely that the characters survive, so...

It also aligns with GRRM’s outline which promised that Jon, Arya and Tyrion would make it through the books (as well as Dany and Bran).

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41 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Well, in at least two of those three cases, it already seemed very likely that the characters survive, so...

It also aligns with GRRM’s outline which promised that Jon, Arya and Tyrion would make it through the books (as well as Dany and Bran).

Taking your interpretation that they live, but their future stories won't be told, it implies

- Daenerys and Bran die (there aren't future stories to be told)

- Daenerys' and Bran's future stories will be told.

As I don't see a future story of Daenerys without Jon or Tyrion, and going with your interpretation that Jon and Tyrion survive, this implies Daenerys dies.

But most of us assumed this anyway :)

 

Edited by alienarea

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6 minutes ago, alienarea said:

Taking your interpretation that they live, but their future stories won't be told, it implies

- Daenerys and Bran die (there aren't future stories to be told)

- Daenerys' and Bran's future stories will be told.

As I don't see a future story of Daenerys without Jon or Tyrion, and going with your interpretation that Jon and Tyrion survive, this implies Daenerys dies.

But most of us assumed this anyway :)

I wouldn't say that GRRM not including Dany and Bran (or any other characters, for that matter) means that they won't survive, only that his reference to not getting to see Jon, Arya and Tyrion's stories continue means that they will. Presumably there will be other characters left standing at the end of GOT/ASOIAF other than Jon, Arya and Tyrion.

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Via Azor Ahype on YouTube about GRRM’s recent interview in Redwood City:

GRRM was asked about GOT successor shows and said that “we’re not going to see the stories of Jon Snow, Arya Stark and Tyrion continue on” after GOT. Seems like confirmation that those three characters survive, doesn’t it?

Seems more like the youtuber is reading to much into this quote.

I'd say simply going off the little filming news we got, the majority of the main cast survives the story.  Which was expected.

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17 hours ago, jcmontea said:

she was the best part of a AFFC. i found her chapters so much fun and entertaining. 

she also had the most chapters if I am not mistaken with ten... 

so not peripheral in that book. 

but I do agree in the sense that if it makes sense to speak in these terms, she was certainly a view point character earlier in the show than in the books 

I mean Brienne has almost just as many chapters in AFFC. They're both definitely the heart of AFFC though.

Cersei's more....expendable in the books. Like Cersei's not this overarching Westerosi antagonist. She's more likely an overarching Lannister antagonist. For instance, Sansa doesn't really think about Cersei versus being this mentor in Show Sansa's life.

 

Also Cersei doesn't ever show up in the HoTU as an antagonist for Daenerys but characters like Euron, Aegon and even Stannis do.

 

 

 

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On 8/15/2018 at 7:49 PM, Risto said:

So, according to youtuber Fire and Blood and his outline for 8x05, Sansa...

  Reveal hidden contents

dies by being kidnapped and forced to drink a poison while imprisoned Jon is watching

This reeks of fanfic... :D 

Has he accurately leaked plot points in the past before? 

 

As for Dany, despite how inconsistent D&D can be, the line from Daario about her being "a conqueror, not a ruler" leads me to believe that we won't see her sit the throne at the end of the series. 

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Has he accurately leaked plot points in the past before? 

I have no idea. I listened to his videos just for entertainment...

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On 8/15/2018 at 7:49 PM, Risto said:

So, according to youtuber Fire and Blood and his outline for 8x05, Sansa...

  Reveal hidden contents

dies by being kidnapped and forced to drink a poison while imprisoned Jon is watching

This reeks of fanfic... :D 

We can write this one off. Sophie filmed in Seville for 8x06, so unless she's playing Wight Sansa, Sansa survives to 8x06 along with Arya, Tyrion, Brienne, Gendry, Sam, and Robin at the very least.

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8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Has he accurately leaked plot points in the past before? 

 

As for Dany, despite how inconsistent D&D can be, the line from Daario about her being "a conqueror, not a ruler" leads me to believe that we won't see her sit the throne at the end of the series. 

i have no idea whether we can actually take Daario's words are foreshadowing. he also says you will get that throne you want, hope it makes you happy. and he also says I want to see the world when she is down conquering it. 

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13 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Has he accurately leaked plot points in the past before? 

 

As for Dany, despite how inconsistent D&D can be, the line from Daario about her being "a conqueror, not a ruler" leads me to believe that we won't see her sit the throne at the end of the series. 

He just wanted her to continue conquering so he could stay as her consort. (And it was a jab at how she's better at conquering cities than ruling them.)
While there's some foreshadowing from characters in this show, there's also a lot which isn't. I wouldn't take anything Daario said as foreshadowing. 

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9 hours ago, Newstar said:

We can write this one off. Sophie filmed in Seville for 8x06, so unless she's playing Wight Sansa, Sansa survives to 8x06 along with Arya, Tyrion, Brienne, Gendry, Sam, and Robin at the very least.

That was also my conclusion... Gendry being Cersei's son should have been my first clue :D

 

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Even though I’ve argued against it strenuously in the past, I’m increasingly certain Tyrion and Sansa are going to end up together in the show, which if it happens is going to lead to some lively discussions about whether the same will happen in the books, lol.

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Even though I’ve argued against it strenuously in the past, I’m increasingly certain Tyrion and Sansa are going to end up together in the show, which if it happens is going to lead to some lively discussions about whether the same will happen in the books, lol.

Do you mean romantically? because I don’t think so. I do think they will be together platonically though.

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1 hour ago, larastone said:

Do you mean romantically? because I don’t think so. I do think they will be together platonically though.

Romantically. 

Edited by Newstar

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