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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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16 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

I feel like I am reliving Season 7 again with something that I hope is not true, because it seems stupid and there is no way it would happen, yet it will...

1. No way, just wouldn't make sense.

Agree

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2. Maybe this is why they played the St. Tyrion card so hard. To make people REALLY love Tyrion, so when they killed him, it would mean so much more?

The real question with this ending is how does Tyrion die and how does that death bring his story to an end. 

Maybe he dies doing something heroic, perhaps driven by his failures in Season 7. Would give new meaning to the conversation between Tyrion and Dany where she says what she likes about him is that he is not a hero because heroes do stupid things and they die. And it would have the subtext of Tyrion being needy and doing something to impress a girl which is very Tyrion.

Or maybe Tyrion turns out to be the Valonqar. 

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3. The issue I have is the Dany symbolism in season 2 would make no sense then. She gets so close to the throne without touching it. That foreshadowing would literally be there as a psyche, which would be stupid.

It would still make sense. One on an actual level, the scene is not about foreshadowing. It is about her resisting temptation. Had she grabbed the throne in that moment she would have stayed trapped in the HOTU. 

And that can ultimatley be foreshadowing for the decisions she makes throughout the story to not go for the Iron Throne at different moments. In 307 she decides to free slaves. In 405 she decides to stay in Mereen and finish the job. And in 705-706 she decides to try and secure a truce with Cersei to prioritize the fight against the NK. 

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4. I could see Jon and Dany dying, but Tyrion as king? I just can't see it happening.

I agree. Can’t see Tyrion as King. For this scenario to make sense to me, Jon and Dany’s kid would have to be ruler and Tyrion rulling as regent. 

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I don't want the ending, but I could see it being No. 2.
Though I really thought Jon and Dany would die (but I can't see Tyrion ruling). 
On the other hand if Jon dies again and Dany is queen (as the No. 3 ending), I may lose my shit. If she rules as a mad queen, I could see it a bit more. But still...

 

Edited by jcmontea

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25 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

3. The issue I have is the Dany symbolism in season 2 would make no sense then. She gets so close to the throne without touching it. That foreshadowing would literally be there as a psyche, which would be stupid. 

I think there's also foreshadowing for Dany getting the throne but being unhappy in the end, though. Daario said something to the effect of "You'll get that throne, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness." Dany getting the throne and (I assume) a healthy child but losing the love of her life in the process would be very bittersweet. It would also fit with the world of GOT/ASOIAF, where characters either don't get what they want, get what they want in a twisted or perverse way, or get what they want and hate it or have it blow up in their faces somehow.

Edited by Newstar

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1 minute ago, Newstar said:

I think there's also foreshadowing for Dany getting the throne but being unhappy in the end, though. Daario said something to the effect of "You'll get that throne, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness." Dany getting the throne and (I assume) a child but losing the love of her life would be very bittersweet.

Than she would truly be like Aegon the Conqueror with teats. 

Aegon lost Rhaenys his true love of his two sisters. 

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4 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Than she would truly be like Aegon the Conqueror with teats. 

Aegon lost Rhaenys his true love of his two sisters. 

Well, hopefully Jon won't be crushed to death by a dragon or tortured to death in Dorne.

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On 9/4/2018 at 9:41 AM, prettylongclaw said:

It was Jon and Sansa that united defeated the Boltons and took back Winterfell; it was with Sansa by his side that Jon was named King in the North; it was in a sweet Jonsa scene that winter was announced to the audience (a momment we all have been waiting since season and book 1); It was Jon who went looking for allies in the south to fight the NK, while Sansa prepared the North for winter and for the wars. They are a very great fit for king and queen. One os the unifying leader, the other the political diplomat. 

 

So what if they seem a "great fit for king and queen"? Whoever said that the person(s) who rule Westeros at the end of the story would be the perfect or best possible leader(s)? Your theory sounds more like wishful thinking for a fairytale ending in which the people whom you consider the best possible king and queen (Jon and Sansa) would end up ruling. I don't believe ASOIAF would have an ending like that; it's much more likely that an imperfect leader (although not one as bad as Cersei) would end up ruling.

Edited by Lunaselene

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37 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

The real question with this ending is how does Tyrion die and how does that death bring his story to an end. 

Maybe he dies doing something heroic, perhaps driven by his failures in Season 7. Would give new meaning to the conversation between Tyrion and Dany where she says what she likes about him is that he is not a hero because heroes do stupid things and they die. And it would have the subtext of Tyrion being needy and doing something to impress a girl which is very Tyrion.

Or maybe Tyrion turns out to be the Valonqar. 

This is true, it really does depend on how they end his arc. They could make it make sense in the end..... Really good points on this really..

 

37 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

It would still make sense. One on an actual level, the scene is not about foreshadowing. It is about her resisting temptation. Had she grabbed the throne in that moment she would have stayed trapped in the HOTU. 

And that can ultimatley be foreshadowing for the decisions she makes throughout the story to not go for the Iron Throne at different moments. In 307 she decides to free slaves. In 405 she decides to stay in Mereen and finish the job. And in 705-706 she decides to try and secure a truce with Cersei to prioritize the fight against the NK. 

I guess it would depend on how you look at it. I guess, once again, it would depend on how they kinda spin it. Or reveal how everything goes down.

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37 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I think there's also foreshadowing for Dany getting the throne but being unhappy in the end, though. Daario said something to the effect of "You'll get that throne, I'm sure of it. I hope it brings you happiness." Dany getting the throne and (I assume) a healthy child but losing the love of her life in the process would be very bittersweet. It would also fit with the world of GOT/ASOIAF, where characters either don't get what they want, get what they want in a twisted or perverse way, or get what they want and hate it or have it blow up in their faces somehow.

True true, there is that as well. IDK why but the image in the house of the undying (maybe because it seems so important in the books) I just personally put a lot of stock into it.... 

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If the House of the Undying showed what is not going to happen then

- there won't be Snow on the Iron Throne

- Daenerys will not reunite with Drogo (i.e. she lives)

I would rule out an ending with the Night King winning.

And Tyrion ruling in the end seems implausible, and, out-of-Universe, bad style as he is kind of GRRM.

Conclusion: Daenerys rules, Jon dies.

And if you complained about the ending of LOST, it can always get worse ...

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2 minutes ago, alienarea said:

Conclusion: Daenerys rules, Jon dies.

Assuming the ending is one of these four options, this seems like the likeliest.

A big problem I have with it is that NCW hates the idea of Dany as queen and he seems positively delighted with the ending. Maybe he's thrilled because Dany ends up a miserable single mom...?

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Personally, I never make predictions about how a show will end to avoid being disappointed. I always go into a series finale with my mind open. I will be perfectly fine with any of these endings, even the NK winning, so long as the execution is good.

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1 minute ago, Dragon in the North said:

Personally, I never make predictions about how a show will end to avoid being disappointed. I always go into a series finale with my mind open. I will be perfectly fine with any of these endings, even the NK winning, so long as the execution is good.

Actually, that's a great attitude.

Personally, I've been burned too many times by lousy series finales not to have very strong opinions about how things should go, but I applaud the spirit.

On another note, I'm kind of surprised more fans aren't going nuts over this. If Frikidoctor is right, we now have a very narrow set of options for GOT's endgame--realistically, I think it has to be either Jonerys/dead Tyrion or Dany/dead Jon--and we can rule out pretty much everything else. That's huge!

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Actually, that's a great attitude.

Personally, I've been burned too many times by lousy series finales not to have very strong opinions about how things should go, but I applaud the spirit.

I am riding a high of good series finales this year with the americans and leftovers

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On another note, I'm kind of surprised more fans aren't going nuts over this. If Frikidoctor is right, we now have a very narrow set of options for GOT's endgame--realistically, I think it has to be either Jonerys/dead Tyrion or Dany/dead Jon--and we can rule out pretty much everything else. That's huge!

I think there is still skepticism he actually knows anything. At least based on others have spoken with. 

Edited by jcmontea

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6 hours ago, Newstar said:

Frikidoctor just posted on Twitter an ad for a T-shirt saying "Choose Your Own Ending (...) Spoiling Is Not a Crime" depicting four possible endings to GOT, with a message saying that he is almost sure that the ending to GOT is on the shirt (details next week, apparently). These are the endings:

1. NK wins

2. Jon and Dany are king and queen, Tyrion dies

3. Dany is queen, Jon dies

4. Tyrion is king, Jon and Dany die

There's no ending where Jon rules without Dany, LOL. It's either Jon/Dany or bust. 

Nor is there any ending where both Jon and Tyrion survive.

Frikidoctor also said in the comments sections that Dany doesn't die in childbirth.

On a more somber note, if Frikidoctor is right, at least one of Jon/Dany/Tyrion will die.

From the most likely to the least:

3-4-2-1

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I don't know if the show will match the books in this sense, but I doubt Jon will rule Westeros in the books. GRRM has been very consistent about how the resurrected are basically inhuman, and are better off being laid to rest for good.

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On 9/4/2018 at 7:32 AM, Lucius Lovejoy said:

Sansa is my second favorite tv show character after Jaime, but D&D put so much effort on their relationship because they murdered book Stannis and had to fill in some time.  Also, gross.  I don't want Sansa to settle for Tyrion, but I really don't want her to end up with her step-brother who has a crush on his aunt.

Exactly.

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I'm gonna go with 2, if only because I think Jon dying right after learning R+L=J would make the payoff to that whole mystery one of the biggest anti-climaxes in literature.  Annie Wilkes save us.  

I'm also noting that none of these endings match up with that original outline from 1993 where the main five make it through all volumes,  One or more of the main five die in every Friki scenario.  Unless somehow the "NK wins" doesn't equate to them all dying.  

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42 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

I'm gonna go with 2, if only because I think Jon dying right after learning R+L=J would make the payoff to that whole mystery one of the biggest anti-climaxes in literature.  Annie Wilkes save us.  

I'm also noting that none of these endings match up with that original outline from 1993 where the main five make it through all volumes,  One or more of the main five die in every Friki scenario.  Unless somehow the "NK wins" doesn't equate to them all dying.  

The author has disavowed the outline, maybe he was being truthful there.

All of these endings are pretty bad, though.

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In his last video Friki  said that the DragonPit scene could be a coronation that would be interrupted by the arrival of the NK....

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14 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I think there is still skepticism he actually knows anything. At least based on others have spoken with. 

He usually doesn't know anything at this point of the production cycle (beyond what gets leaked to other websites like WOTW and /Freefolk). He usually only gets spoilery information just before the season airs. However, he seems to think he has something this time, since on /Freefolk he said to wait until the next of next week before deciding who is the Leaker of the Year.

11 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

I'm also noting that none of these endings match up with that original outline from 1993 where the main five make it through all volumes,  One or more of the main five die in every Friki scenario.  Unless somehow the "NK wins" doesn't equate to them all dying.  

Not to mention that GRRM said in a recent interview that we wouldn't be seeing the further adventures of Jon, Arya, or Tyrion beyond ASOIAF, which implies that both Jon and Tyrion survive, and Frikidoctor presented no option where both Jon and Tyrion survive. So either GRRM was being misleading, or Frikidoctor is mistaken about the ending.

10 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

In his last video Friki  said that the DragonPit scene could be a coronation that would be interrupted by the arrival of the NK....

Yes, it was part of his "double betrayal" theory--Sansa and Tyrion team up to betray Jonerys--which he seems to have acknowledged in one of the Twitter threads where these endings are discussed was just trolling on his part.

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

He usually doesn't know anything at this point of the production cycle (beyond what gets leaked to other websites like WOTW and /Freefolk). He usually only gets spoilery information just before the season airs. However, he seems to think he has something this time, since on /Freefolk he said to wait until the next of next week before deciding who is the Leaker of the Year.

he def. is acting like he has something. that free folk comment was interesting. 

1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Not to mention that GRRM said in a recent interview that we wouldn't be seeing the further adventures of Jon, Arya, or Tyrion beyond ASOIAF, which implies that both Jon and Tyrion survive, and Frikidoctor presented no option where both Jon and Tyrion survive. So either GRRM was being misleading, or Frikidoctor is mistaken about the ending.

if Tyrion or Jon are dead than yea we won't be getting more adventures. So what GRRM said would still be true. 

1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Yes, it was part of his "double betrayal" theory--Sansa and Tyrion team up to betray Jonerys--which he seems to have acknowledged in one of the Twitter threads where these endings are discussed was just trolling on his part.

 

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