Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[Grail King]

On 9/7/2018 at 8:07 AM, Newstar said:

1. The court documents in their entirety show that NCW will be paid for six S8 episodes.

2. The main cast are paid for all the episodes of the season, regardless of how many they appear in.

3. NCW was still filming in June, when Sapochnik and D&D were directing, so he probably makes it to 8x05 at least.

How would Friki (and Enty23) claim to know for a fact that Jonsa won’t happen if his only spoilery info is that Tyrion dies? It seems he must know that Jon and Dany survive AND that Tyrion doesn’t to speak confidently about Jonsa being DOA...unless he doesn’t know and is just assuming based on Tyrion’s death that Jon and Dany are safe, or unless he knows that Sansa dies at well. A ship is never 100% off the table unless one of them is dead.

I don’t feel bad for the Jonsa fans, personally. They were warned.

My was based on what he said, he also said he has nothing on Jonsa, I personally think in can happen in book, but I personally ship no one with Sansa ( well Ned Dayne ) I rather she find love on her own.

I give Sansa 50/50 chance but she's still my favorite and hope she survives.

[Mladen]

Just some random thoughts...

1. I do believe Tyrion will be in some serious danger once it is exposed that Cersei betrayed them. Unless Jaime clears the air regarding him, I can see Dany, in full Targ-paranoid mode, blaming Tyrion for this.

2. This show established "breaking of wheel" theme. Dany had that speech in Season 5, Great Houses were biting the dust in Season 6 and 7 and it was once again reiterated in Season 7. So, having two Targ monarchs at the Iron Throne would be against rather established plot point. The world needs to change, Having Jon and Dany rule together as last of Targaryens, making more Targaryen babies would not make much sense.

3. I am rather interested in seeing how Sansa and Tyrion will bode. Turner's has never been easy to decipher so that bit we got could mean everything and anything. I do a lot of pieces will clash here and I do hope we get some sort of resolution between all the parties in fashion that is not "one good speech and we all agree". I need Sansa to speak with Jon, Tyrion with Sansa, Tyrion with Dany, Dany with Sansa, Sansa with Northern lords. Those two first episodes will have to be written in such Sorkin fashion because I honestly would hate to see everything folding with complete disregard to their emotions and experience.

[alienarea]

If ...

... the Dragonpit scene were Tyrion's trial and Jon and Daenerys are not there ...

... they must be dead or captured?

[Error-504]

3 hours ago, alienarea said:

If ...

... the Dragonpit scene were Tyrion's trial and Jon and Daenerys are not there ...

... they must be dead or captured?

Exactly,

makes no sense, if Jon/Dany have won, they would have to be at any trial. If Cersei had won, then it makes sense. Unless Dany/Jon arrive too late, and Tyrion had been captured. If Jon/Dany are dead, who is the ruler of that faction? Sansa? Pul-lease no. 

[Kandrax]

Third WTF moment is Varys is Mel's son.

[Lysander]

1 hour ago, Error-504 said:

Exactly,

makes no sense, if Jon/Dany have won, they would have to be at any trial. If Cersei had won, then it makes sense. Unless Dany/Jon arrive too late, and Tyrion had been captured. If Jon/Dany are dead, who is the ruler of that faction? Sansa? Pul-lease no. 

Who says this is taking place after the AOTD has been dealt with? Maybe Jon and Dany are otherwise occupied. Maybe the scene of Tyrion's trial is being inter-cut with the Dany/Drogon vs Night's King/Viserion battle that another user told r/freefolk about. Maybe Dany is giving birth during that scene. 

We don't know how it's going to shake out. 

[btfu806]

22 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I am pretty sure that is the twist. 

The writing was on the wall for Stannis burning Shireen as well..... 

Ughhhhh you're right....

[Juligen]

10 hours ago, Risto said:

Just some random thoughts...

1. I do believe Tyrion will be in some serious danger once it is exposed that Cersei betrayed them. Unless Jaime clears the air regarding him, I can see Dany, in full Targ-paranoid mode, blaming Tyrion for this.

2. This show established "breaking of wheel" theme. Dany had that speech in Season 5, Great Houses were biting the dust in Season 6 and 7 and it was once again reiterated in Season 7. So, having two Targ monarchs at the Iron Throne would be against rather established plot point. The world needs to change, Having Jon and Dany rule together as last of Targaryens, making more Targaryen babies would not make much sense.

3. I am rather interested in seeing how Sansa and Tyrion will bode. Turner's has never been easy to decipher so that bit we got could mean everything and anything. I do a lot of pieces will clash here and I do hope we get some sort of resolution between all the parties in fashion that is not "one good speech and we all agree". I need Sansa to speak with Jon, Tyrion with Sansa, Tyrion with Dany, Dany with Sansa, Sansa with Northern lords. Those two first episodes will have to be written in such Sorkin fashion because I honestly would hate to see everything folding with complete disregard to their emotions and experience.

1. I fully expect Tyrion to face another trial (this would be number 3) and have a very sad ending. With Tyrion I see a man who believes to be more smart than he actually is. He was told by his father to not bring Shae to KL but Tyrion thought he could take her to the capital and later get rid of her if he no longer wanted her there. That was not the case and Shae end up being the reason why he killed his father and started his family downfall. He did the same thing with Daenerys; he brought her to Westeros and believed he could control her and guide her actions during her conquering attack. Again, things dont happen as he planned  and I expect him losing control of that situation too. He will be the man who brought the Mad Kings Daughter with dragons to Westeros. Yahh, he wont have a happy ending.

 

2. I keep saying that Daenerys actions dont make sense. She wants to break the wheel, by building another wheel with her family on top crushing everybody else under them. She wants to take Westeros back to the past. An absolute monarchy of House Targaryen using dragons to force people to bend the knee and burning alive those  who refuse to do so, this is literally the reason why Westeros rebeled the first time.

I believe Jon Snow will rule as king and he will start a new House with new sigil and new words. I think he will united House Targaryen with House Stark, which is why the marriage with Sansa is so clear to me. It will be a new beggining to Westeros. 

 

3. I am very interested in Sansa's reaction to Tyrion and Daenerys, but also Arya. I think Jon, Sansa and Arya will be a very interesting dinamic to observe.

 

Last, I dont get why people gives this Friki guy taht much attention. Most of the time he is only especulating and giving us his own personal theories. His spoilers are only very good when he is close to the premiere. Thats when he gets great information. And I also dont think this silly trial of Tyrion its the third WTF. I ma expecting something amazing, like Bran ordering KL to be exploded or something like that.

[DisneyDoc2425]

9 hours ago, prettylongclaw said:

2. I keep saying that Daenerys actions dont make sense. She wants to break the wheel, by building another wheel with her family on top crushing everybody else under them. She wants to take Westeros back to the past. An absolute monarchy of House Targaryen using dragons to force people to bend the knee and burning alive those  who refuse to do so, this is literally the reason why Westeros rebeled the first time.

I believe Jon Snow will rule as king and he will start a new House with new sigil and new words. I think he will united House Targaryen with House Stark, which is why the marriage with Sansa is so clear to me. It will be a new beggining to Westeros. mething like that.

I agree with most of your comments here (and those about Friki as well) except I do feel that the dictatorial monarchy needs to be abolished (perhaps Jon will do this)and some alternative form of government installed for Westeros (or perhaps just returning to the way it was before the Targaryen invasion).

So what is the "end game" for Daenerys? IMHO the writers will probably come up with some ending for her that would be at least partially gratifying to the largest number of fans. Daenerys is seen by many as a beloved heroin, by others as a villain, and by others as somewhere in between (i.e. antihero or antivillain depending on which way you lean). In line with trying to partially gratify the largest number of fans if I were the writers I would do the following:

1. She will have a child (children). Who doesn't love kids and she would at least indirectly survive with the child (children) living on as her legacy.
2. I ascribe to the theory that she will in the end become the Night Queen (with the Night King being destroyed). She will die but  "survive" as an animate entity. Her show arc will be complete as moving from fire to ice with the two of them balancing each other off. Her obsession to rule over Westeros will be satisfied although not in the exact manner she had intended. Drogo and her first child will be reunited with her there. This ending would also allow for an atonement for her obsessional character traits and their resultant negative behaviors. IMHO these two components would provide a bittersweet ending for Daenerys.

I believe the above ending for Daenerys would be consistent with foreshadowing's dating back to season 2 and would tie all the pieces of her life together. I believe this ending would also be consistent with the somber comments Emelia Clarke made in her Vanity Fair interview of 5/23/18 regarding the recent filming of her last scenes in the show as well as for some subsequent comments she has made. 

Again this is just how I would write it. Just my opinion. 

[alienarea]

Maybe Daenerys becomes a real dragon in the end?

[Lysander]

3 hours ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

I agree with most of your comments here (and those about Friki as well) except I do feel that the dictatorial monarchy needs to be abolished (perhaps Jon will do this)and some alternative form of government installed for Westeros (or perhaps just returning to the way it was before the Targaryen invasion).

So what is the "end game" for Daenerys? IMHO the writers will probably come up with some ending for her that would be at least partially gratifying to the largest number of fans. Daenerys is seen by many as a beloved heroin, by others as a villain, and by others as somewhere in between (i.e. antihero or antivillain depending on which way you lean). In line with trying to partially gratify the largest number of fans if I were the writers I would do the following:

1. She will have a child (children). Who doesn't love kids and she would at least indirectly survive with the child (children) living on as her legacy.
2. I ascribe to the theory that she will in the end become the Night Queen (with the Night King being destroyed). She will die but  "survive" as an animate entity. Her show arc will be complete as moving from fire to ice with the two of them balancing each other off. Her obsession to rule over Westeros will be satisfied although not in the exact manner she had intended. Drogo and her first child will be reunited with her there. This ending would also allow for an atonement for her obsessional character traits and their resultant negative behaviors. IMHO these two components would provide a bittersweet ending for Daenerys.

I believe the above ending for Daenerys would be consistent with foreshadowing's dating back to season 2 and would tie all the pieces of her life together. I believe this ending would also be consistent with the somber comments Emelia Clarke made in her Vanity Fair interview of 5/23/18 regarding the recent filming of her last scenes in the show as well as for some subsequent comments she has made. 

Again this is just how I would write it. Just my opinion. 

Why is it Daenerys who always gets these outlandish predictions for her ending? First of all, the Game of Thrones writers are not "coming up with" an ending for her. They are not tailoring the conclusion of the story for a TV audience. They are using GRRM's ending which has been in the works for over 20 years. However Dany and her arc as resolved, it will fit in thematically with the story that GRRM has been telling through 5 books and counting.

Second, I find it extremely unlikely that there will be a Night's King/Queen or any semblance of the Others' magic at the end of the story. If I recall correctly, GRRM has stated that the long seasons in Westeros are an unnatural phenomenon, and we will find out how they got that way. It seems very likely that whatever magical shenanigans transpired before the Long Night (ie the creation of the Others by the CotF) threw the natural seasons out of whack. GRRM has also gone on record to say that the ending of ASOIAF will resolve every major characters' story in a way that leaves little room for speculation.

Taking all this together, the logical conclusion is that the Others will be dealt with in a permanent fashion, and the seasons will be restored to normal. The remaining CotF and the dragons dying permanently is also on the table. If GRRM's statements about wanting to mirror the ending of the Lord of the Rings in his own story bear out, he may go for the same "magic goes away forever" resolution. It certainly seems possible.

In either case, I find the possibility of Dany somehow becoming the "Night's Queen" a very, very remote one. I find the likelihood of Bran becoming the Night's King a bigger one, but even then I think it's pure tinfoil. The trappings of ASOIAF may be magical, but the stories of the characters are all very human, and I don't see becoming an Other as thematically fitting for any of the main characters. Like at all. I don't know how it caught on.

For my money, I think there are limited possibilities for how Dany's story can end. To my mind, the options are: a) Dying somehow after giving birth b) Raising her child with Jon a king and queen, or otherwise having a hand in the new system of government or c) Giving up her ambitions of ruling, and raising her child with Jon as a normal family (aka the "red door" ending). A trustworthy leaker from Reddit claimed Dany will give birth at the very end of the story, if not in the epilogue, so at this point, I'm seeing option a as less and less likely.

[Juligen]

4 hours ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

I agree with most of your comments here (and those about Friki as well) except I do feel that the dictatorial monarchy needs to be abolished (perhaps Jon will do this)and some alternative form of government installed for Westeros (or perhaps just returning to the way it was before the Targaryen invasion).

So what is the "end game" for Daenerys? IMHO the writers will probably come up with some ending for her that would be at least partially gratifying to the largest number of fans. Daenerys is seen by many as a beloved heroin, by others as a villain, and by others as somewhere in between (i.e. antihero or antivillain depending on which way you lean). In line with trying to partially gratify the largest number of fans if I were the writers I would do the following:

 1. She will have a child (children). Who doesn't love kids and she would at least indirectly survive with the child (children) living on as her legacy.
2. I ascribe to the theory that she will in the end become the Night Queen (with the Night King being destroyed). She will die but  "survive" as an animate entity. Her show arc will be complete as moving from fire to ice with the two of them balancing each other off. Her obsession to rule over Westeros will be satisfied although not in the exact manner she had intended. Drogo and her first child will be reunited with her there. This ending would also allow for an atonement for her obsessional character traits and their resultant negative behaviors. IMHO these two components would provide a bittersweet ending for Daenerys.

I believe the above ending for Daenerys would be consistent with foreshadowing's dating back to season 2 and would tie all the pieces of her life together. I believe this ending would also be consistent with the somber comments Emelia Clarke made in her Vanity Fair interview of 5/23/18 regarding the recent filming of her last scenes in the show as well as for some subsequent comments she has made. 

Again this is just how I would write it. Just my opinion. 

I rewatch the show several times after season 7 has ended. They have been telling us that Daenerys will destroy Kings Landing since season 1. Thats why even the way they filmed Daenerys last season changed, they are preparing her to be the final antagonist. The minute she burned down the Tarlys, father and son, I knew it she would not be the final queen. She is literally repeating her father's mistakes. And now she will find out the Throne doesnt belong to her. 

I get it that this is a very unpopular opnion, but if we pay attention to her reign in Meereen the red falgs were already there. Daenerys failed in Meereen because she herself is a poor ruler. The first thing she did after conquering the city was to crucify 160 masters without bother to organize a trial. Thats revenge, thats not justice. Justice would have been organizing a trial, find out who were the responsible for the crimes against the children, punish those accordingly, then punished the other who also helped with those actions. But this is slow, boring, its not satisfying as revenge. Then later Ser Barristan later tells her she should follow the law from now on and she agrees with him. She announces to her people that from now on every crime should have a trial and investigation; well, tahts  until Ser Barristan is killed by the Sons of the Harpys, then she immediately forgets the trials and takes all the leaders of the Noble families to her dungeous and feeds one to her dragons to intimidated the rest of them. Again, this is not justice, this is revenge.

 

Daenerys literally only follows the law when she is in a good mood, when she is angry she kills anyone she wants and never pays for those crimes. That man she burned alive and feed to her dragons was innocent. But we dont care about him because he is non character name. A ruler who believes to be above the law and only follows the law when she wants its a nightmare for a kingdom. Meereen would never have peace and prosperity while Daenerys rules them.

 

Daenerys also completely sabotages her alliance with Hidzar. If you rewatch the show you will notice he is always nice and polite to Daenerys, he always giver her good advice, moderate and sensate ideas, But she doesnt trusts him and instead prefers to listen to Daario and she is extremely rude and disrespectful of him. That relationship with Hdzar was supposed to parallel Cersei relationships with the Tyrells. Cersei never understood that even tho she doesnt  like Maergery, that allience would had made her family power stronger. Both women are very similar.

 

Do you know why Daenerys hates Hidzar so much? its because she see herself in him. Hidzar is (in her mind) the son of a very powerfull family, who was taken from power becuase they abused their power and were terrible rulers  to their people, but who still wants to rule Meereen and keep his status and power. Thats Daeenrys in a nutshell. The mad Kings Daughter who wants to rule Westeros, even tho her family was removed from the power for good reasons. Thats teh same reason Cersei hates Maergery, she sees a young Cersei on her, who desperately wanted to be queen.

 

BTW - I do think she will have a child with Jon Snow but the child will be a bastard. Jon Snow fathering a bastard has been foreshadowed to death by the books.

[Meera of Tarth]

5 minutes ago, prettylongclaw said:

Daenerys literally only follows the law when she is in a good mood, when she is angry she kills anyone she wants and never pays for those crimes. That man she burned alive and feed to her dragons was innocent. But we dont care about him because he is non character name. A ruler who believes to be above the law and only follows the law when she wants its a nightmare for a kingdom. Meereen would never have peace and prosperity while Daenerys rules them.

I had noticed this a long ago. Now that Tyrion is 

Spoiler

probably gonna die

I think even more than Dany could go mad, or either not the destined queen she thinks she is.

Quote

BTW - I do think she will have a child with Jon Snow but the child will be a bastard. Jon Snow fathering a bastard has been foreshadowed to death by the books.

A bastard? In what sense'? Then that means that Dany and Jon will not marry?

[Juligen]

Also, I notice rewathing the show that Daenerys conquering of Essos mirros the Targaryen rule of Westeros. House Targaryen conquered the kingdom using fear, terror and dragons and as long as the dragons were alive they were able to rule, once the dragons died they lost control of the kingdom. This is exactly what hapened to Daenerys in Essos, she conquered cities and was proclaimed queen, but as soon as she locked her dragons she started losing control of the city.

It was only after she unleashed her dragons again that she was able to retake the city. The Targaryens lost Westeros and Daenerys lost Meereen because they are poor rulers, they dont have the right temperament or good judgement to be a good governors. But they can not let it go of their power, which is why I believe the House will be put to death in season 8. The show has been hitting that it will be a new dinasty that will rule the 7 kingdoms, "a dinasty that will rule for thousands of years"

Westeros needs a new beginning.....

 

 

[Dragon in the North]

On 9/8/2018 at 1:25 PM, Risto said:

2. This show established "breaking of wheel" theme. Dany had that speech in Season 5, Great Houses were biting the dust in Season 6 and 7 and it was once again reiterated in Season 7. So, having two Targ monarchs at the Iron Throne would be against rather established plot point. The world needs to change, Having Jon and Dany rule together as last of Targaryens, making more Targaryen babies would not make much sense.

I think “breaking the wheel” means permanently establishing Targaryen rule. I don’t think she’s trying to change the world.

[Juligen]

1 minute ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I had noticed this a long ago. Now that Tyrion is 

  Hide contents

probably gonna die

I think even more than Dany could go mad, or either not the destined queen she thinks she is.

A bastard? In what sense'? Then that means that Dany and Jon will not marry?

No, I dont think they will get married. Because 1 thats what the audience expects and 2 the books and the show foreshadowed Jon's marriage with Sansa. In season 6, after  Jon Snow and Sansa reunite on Castle Black, in the scene in front of teh fireplace Sansa is wearing Jon's old cloak, the grey one he used when he left Winterfell. Later in the next episode its Sansa who cloaks Jon with her family cloak. We all know that cloaking someone its a very strong symbol of marriage in Westeros. In season 7, when Ser Jorah gives Longclow to Jon Snow and tells him to pass to his children its the Stark theme that starts to play and the scene cuts to Winterfell with Sansa. 

I have to say, people not even entertaining he idea of the Jon and Sansa marriage its very interestig to me, because that would be a very George RR Martim ending to me. Not to mention, Sansa would have to raise Jon Snow bastard, which again, its very George RRMartin. I can be completely wrong But to me, in season 7, Sansa was by far, the best alternative for a queen presented by the show.

 

Sansa in season 7 - I know that cutting peoples head must be very satisfying, but thats not the way you get people to work together. 

[Mladen]

Just now, Dragon in the North said:

I think “breaking the wheel” means permanently establishing Targaryen rule. I don’t think she’s trying to change the world.

One would say that it makes no sense but in the world of DnDland...

[Juligen]

17 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

I think “breaking the wheel” means permanently establishing Targaryen rule. I don’t think she’s trying to change the world.

I know exactly what Daenerys wants. To put her family back in power in Westeros, the problem will be if they dont want her family or her back in power. Now they have Jon Snow as an alternative and I have no doubt they will choose him. How Dany will handle this decision its what will make season 8 interesting. I have a hint, not very well. 

[Meera of Tarth]

16 minutes ago, prettylongclaw said:

No, I dont think they will get married. Because 1 thats what the audience expects and 2 the books and the show foreshadowed Jon's marriage with Sansa. In season 6, after  Jon Snow and Sansa reunite on Castle Black, in the scene in front of teh fireplace Sansa is wearing Jon's old cloak, the grey one he used when he left Winterfell. Later in the next episode its Sansa who cloaks Jon with her family cloak. We all know that cloaking someone its a very strong symbol of marriage in Westeros. In season 7, when Ser Jorah gives Longclow to Jon Snow and tells him to pass to his children its the Stark theme that starts to play and the scene cuts to Winterfell with Sansa. 

I have to say, people not even entertaining he idea of the Jon and Sansa marriage its very interestig to me, because that would be a very George RR Martim ending to me. Not to mention, Sansa would have to raise Jon Snow bastard, which again, its very George RRMartin. I can be completely wrong But to me, in season 7, Sansa was by far, the best alternative for a queen presented by the show.

 

Sansa in season 7 - I know that cutting peoples head must be very satisfying, but thats not the way you get people to work together. 

Well, I don't think Jon and Sansa will marry and raise Jon's bastard together. I think Sansa will end either alone or with Sandor, if they both survive.  He also cloaked her, by the way.... and they are not related. There is a romance in the books and there is some foreshadowing in the show, especially in the first seasons and even in s7. Sansa and LF are having a conversation and he names him when he is asking her abut "what makes her happy" and in the wight hunt Sandor says "he doesn't like gingers", because obviously he still thinks of her.  Of course, it could end in a tragedy, and neither of them surive or just one. But if they are not endgame, Sansa will be alone by the end of the series (not sure if there was an epilogue, but certainly not with Jon). I think there's no other narratively fitting ending for her.

And I think there is zero  foreshadowing of Jon and Sansa in the books.

I can't imagine how to people who have been raised as siblings would  have interest in marrying each other, much especially after the affair of Jon with Dany (which I don't like and was done horribly in the show) and then, just after he knows she is his aunt, causing trouble to him, he decides to marry his now cousin, who he sees as a sibling to him. It would be really bizarre.

It would even be worse than Jonerys in terms of "being related" because at least Jon and Dany didn't know that. ....And I dislike Jonerys a lot and how they tried to portray it as a "romance", failing miserably as it could not  have been more forced.

As for Sansa being Queen, I don't think it will happen, but I could not discard it, given the narrative. I think that if she survives she will rule some castle at least.

[Dragon in the North]

13 minutes ago, Risto said:

One would say that it makes no sense but in the world of DnDland...

It is an idealistic dream, but that’s Dany’s character, so it makes sense to her.