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Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

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Book will end (well close to the end) with Jon executing Dany. I remember one of D&D saying there were two things GRRM told them that will happen that floored them. One he said was what happens to Shireen. The other is as yet unrevealed. It'll be Jon killing Dany, and I reckon they might do it too, because shocking shit is what they get off on, what drew them to this whole thing in the first place. But I don't think they can do it how it will happen in the book, not enough time and they've turned away from the magical side of things that will propel that arc.

But if Dany is pregnant during the season and then Drogon dies or becomes wounded/useless, then they going to do it.

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18 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Based on those interviews, it seems that D&D are working towards an ending that Martin gave them, though Martin may change his mind and go a different direction. To be honest, I don’t really care. I’m sure I’all be perfectly content with the show’s ending. As for the books, I’ll read them regardless when/if they come out.

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23 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Based on those interviews, it seems that D&D are working towards an ending that Martin gave them, though Martin may change his mind and go a different direction. To be honest, I don’t really care. I’m sure I’all be perfectly content with the show’s ending. As for the books, I’ll read them regardless when/if they come out.

Fair enough.

My problem is when people bang the table insisting the ending will match when there's no proof for that short of the books being published or GRRM announcing as much. If folks want to believe they match personally, I don't care, but it can't be pushed onto others without proof.

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8 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I fail to take G.R.R.M. seriously anymore. He's creating fantasy content to make money, and he's very good at it. He's not good at creating and completing a long story.

The show had to speed up the story as the young actors for Arya, Bran and Sansa are growing, and the adult actors aging. You cannot have two seasons out of AFfC and another two out of ADwD without replacing actors looking to old for their roles. Once you start replacing actors the audience will have difficulties to follow as it is a large cast anyway. Not to mention that there isn't much progress of the story in books four and five (and they are boring IMHO).

Now he has signed up to write the pilot for "The Long Night". He's milking HBO and cheating on his readers.

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Interesting excerpt:

But there are just a few more tiny hints about where Game of Thrones Season 8 will end. After making it through several increased security measures, reporter James Hibberd actually witnessed filming of the show's final episode inside the massive hangar where the Titanic was reportedly painted. Here's an excerpt:

"What's being filmed here is episode 6, the series finale. Like Harington going into the table read, I don't know anything about the final season's storyline. I look around at a meticulously constructed set that I've never seen on the show before. Several actors are performing, and I'm stunned: There are characters in the finale that I did not expect. I gradually begin to piece together what has happened in Westeros over the previous five episodes and try not to look like I’m freaking out."

He goes on to say that "the drama builds to a confrontation with the Army of the Dead that's expected to be the most sustained action sequence ever made for television or film," of which Benioff said, "We've been building toward this since the very beginning, it's the living against the dead, and you can't do that in a 12-minute sequence."

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Hmmm... truly flipping the story on its head... AOTD wins. We get shown past events from their perspective, and their actions totally make sense.

Edited by Mindwalker

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20 hours ago, Lollygag said:

This sentence makes no sense if GRRM told D&D the book ending as some claim. That, or D&D went a different way.

It all depends how you interpret the word honour.  Honouring something can be to do it justice, e.g. deliver exactly to the correct specification.  So in this context Cogman may be saying that D&D have honoured GRRM by achieving what he told them.

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19 hours ago, Lollygag said:

If GRRM truly didn't know his ending when he first started writing the books it would explain why he lost his way so dramatically.

Personally I now take anything GRRM says with a very large pinch of salt.  Gardeners don't write a shedload of foreshadowing and prophecies in a book that won't come to pass until several books time.  GRRM has always known what his main plotline was and where it was all going to end up.  What's screwed him up is the five year gap and having to produce a load of subplots to fill pages whilst the main characters age.

Edited by Ser Gareth

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18 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Fair enough.

My problem is when people bang the table insisting the ending will match when there's no proof for that short of the books being published or GRRM announcing as much. If folks want to believe they match personally, I don't care, but it can't be pushed onto others without proof.

Well the books aren't ever going to be finished, so we'll never have that proof unfortunately.

"Author George R.R. Martin, whose series of novels forms the basis for Thrones, had revealed to the duo the broad strokes of how his Song of Ice and Fire saga secretly ends, including a description of an epic final battle that’s been teased from the show’s very first scene. But this climactic confrontation was miles out of reach for a series that cost about $5 million per episode. “We have a very generous budget from HBO, but we know what’s coming down the line and, ultimately, it’s not generous enough,” Benioff said."

Reading that makes me think that GRRM had in his mind (and probably already written certain drafts) of that final battle.  The broad strokes are how to get there.

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18 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Book will end (well close to the end) with Jon executing Dany. I remember one of D&D saying there were two things GRRM told them that will happen that floored them. One he said was what happens to Shireen. The other is as yet unrevealed. It'll be Jon killing Dany, and I reckon they might do it too, because shocking shit is what they get off on, what drew them to this whole thing in the first place. But I don't think they can do it how it will happen in the book, not enough time and they've turned away from the magical side of things that will propel that arc.

But if Dany is pregnant during the season and then Drogon dies or becomes wounded/useless, then they going to do it.

Or sacrificing her to beat the Others, thus fulfilling the Nissa Nissa prophecy all over again.  It's pretty obvious that Jon Snow is Azor Ahai reborn (I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow).  To defeat the "Great Other" he needs Lightbringer.  And the only way to "create" Lightbringer is through sacrifice and that will almost certainly be Dany (and possibly a pregnant Dany.  The whole Talisa thing may have been D&D's clumsy way of foreshadowing).

"Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew before hand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, while her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon"

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6 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Or sacrificing her to beat the Others, thus fulfilling the Nissa Nissa prophecy all over again.  It's pretty obvious that Jon Snow is Azor Ahai reborn (I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow).  To defeat the "Great Other" he needs Lightbringer.  And the only way to "create" Lightbringer is through sacrifice and that will almost certainly be Dany (and possibly a pregnant Dany.  The whole Talisa thing may have been D&D's clumsy way of foreshadowing).

"Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew before hand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, while her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon"

Except that doesn't exactly fulfill the prophecy's/visions we have been shown about Dany, now does it?

Or perhaps your taking the whole Azor Ahai prophecy far to literally? 

If lightbringer already exists, it doesn't need to be "reforged". 

Edited by Error-504

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6 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

It all depends how you interpret the word honour.  Honouring something can be to do it justice, e.g. deliver exactly to the correct specification.  So in this context Cogman may be saying that D&D have honoured GRRM by achieving what he told them. 

If that works for you, ok, but I just can’t imagine Peter Jackson saying that about LotR or any adapter saying that who was true to a book ending. If you did the author’s ending, then you did the ending. Period.

 

6 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

If GRRM truly didn't know his ending when he first started writing the books it would explain why he lost his way so dramatically.

Personally I now take anything GRRM says with a very large pinch of salt.  Gardeners don't write a shedload of foreshadowing and prophecies in a book that won't come to pass until several books time.  GRRM has always known what his main plotline was and where it was all going to end up.  What's screwed him up is the five year gap and having to produce a load of subplots to fill pages whilst the main characters age. 

That’s not how gardening works. I think it’s actually impossible that everything is 100% gardening. GRRM was comparing himself to those who hyper outline everything beginning to end and stick to it all of the way through. I don't think it was ever intended that he was at the opposite extreme where everything was just stream of consciousness writing going whereever.

I have a problem when it comes to foreshadowing interpretation and I’m more interested what’s already happened and then looking backwards. People cite a lot as foreshadowing but until something happens, we can't be sure. I see a lot of foreshadowing in the early books that obviously wasn't as that's now impossible to happen. A lot of people see Blackfyre foreshadowing in AGOT and swear by it, but it was confirmed that GRRM hadn’t come up with this that early. The Tyrion/Sansa foreshadowing doesn’t show in the books until that plot line is already forming in the books. Same with the Red Wedding foreshadowing. When you see foreshadowing—check and make sure if it’s for a plotline already heading that way. And we don't know at what stage so-called foreshadowing was written. Was it in later rewrites/editing after the book was more or less done and some of the possible plots for the next book in development? Some skepticism with what we think is foreshadowing isn't a bad idea. As for the prophesies, notice that GRRM has hardly boxed himself in with how those will turn out. Lightbringer may just be about the sacrifices which must be made to do the right thing. The valonqar prophesy - that's about Cersei ensuring her own fate. Nothing needs to be specific here.  All kinds of ways those might play out.

AFFC Alayne I

I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now . . . it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos.

Notice that LF is a gardener here who has lost his own five year gap? I'm taking this as GRRM plants seeds and only some fruits ripen.  Not all of your seeds come up as planned or do what you mean them to do.

GRRM has always known the main plotline? I'd guess with some plotlines but we can't know which. The first so-called forced outline bears little resemblance to the books. It started out as a trilogy. Then soon into the writing, the trilogy fell apart. Then it was more books. Then seven, now possibly more. This goes back way before the five year gap.

 

6 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Well the books aren't ever going to be finished, so we'll never have that proof unfortunately.

"Author George R.R. Martin, whose series of novels forms the basis for Thrones, had revealed to the duo the broad strokes of how his Song of Ice and Fire saga secretly ends, including a description of an epic final battle that’s been teased from the show’s very first scene. But this climactic confrontation was miles out of reach for a series that cost about $5 million per episode. “We have a very generous budget from HBO, but we know what’s coming down the line and, ultimately, it’s not generous enough,” Benioff said."

Reading that makes me think that GRRM had in his mind (and probably already written certain drafts) of that final battle.  The broad strokes are how to get there.

Agree unless he says something like, "Whatever. Let's go with the show ending. I'm done."

I don’t doubt that GRRM has had some things in mind from the beginning and has kept to them because they were important to the tone, an important point, or he just thought is was really cool. But we can't tell which was and which wasn't and can’t extrapolate that one, two, three things have likely stayed consistent and conclude that everything (especially our favorite part) has stayed consistent.

And where do you know for certain that all of the broad strokes are locked in stone?  And how do you know which is which unless told?

 

 

 

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Friki came out with YouTude video yesterday which featured a picture of the Entertainment Weekly issue dated 11/9/18 with the cover picture of Jon and Daenerys embracing. As the video was in Spanish I have no idea what he said. Does anyone have any info on this and did he state any more spoiler info (or was it just his usual speculations) ?

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1 hour ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

Friki came out with YouTude video yesterday which featured a picture of the Entertainment Weekly issue dated 11/9/18 with the cover picture of Jon and Daenerys embracing. As the video was in Spanish I have no idea what he said. Does anyone have any info on this and did he state any more spoiler info (or was it just his usual speculations) ?

Just speculation and analysis.  Friki said so himself on Reddit.  He said if he ever gets new spoilers, he will announce on social media before he makes a video about it.   

Friki has a reddit account which he uses to clarify things about his videos from time to time (he posts in English on there) if you want to follow him directly:  https://www.reddit.com/user/therealfrikidoctor/

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1 hour ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Just speculation and analysis.  Friki said so himself on Reddit.  He said if he ever gets new spoilers, he will announce on social media before he makes a video about it.   

Friki has a reddit account which he uses to clarify things about his videos from time to time (he posts in English on there) if you want to follow him directly:  https://www.reddit.com/user/therealfrikidoctor/

Thanks so much. I will follow Friki on Reddit.

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Sean Bean Predicts which Stark will last to the end of Season 8:

He is promoting the new Hitman 2 so it's nice to get some new interviews from him that touch on Game of Thrones as well.

Talking about Ned's death:

Quote

 

"It was a memorable event — a bit of a shock," Bean said, in the understatement of the decade. "I'm proud of all that, though. It's great to be part of a phenomena, establish this character and then he's there forever."

TheNorthRemembers, Sean. We will never forget the unexpected pain of losing Ned, who first introduced us to how Game of Thrones will kill everyone you've ever loved.

Now, Bean can only look on from a distance on the show. He's only caught bits and pieces of the show since his departure, as perhaps one of the only people in the world who doesn't obsessively watch every Sunday.

But he still has some thoughts on which of his former TV children will make it to the end.

"Who's left?" he said, jogging his memory of the endless blood bath brought upon his house. "Jon Snow is left, isn't he? But Arya would have to be it. Yeah Arya will last — maybe she'll be on the throne."

 

 

https://mashable.com/article/sean-bean-hitman-2-game-of-thrones/?europe=true#p4eudn_XNaqO

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And I can't wait to see the romances blossom!

each with a different protagonist, each having a different cast of supporting players, antagonists, allies and lovers around them"

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/10/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-the-winds-of-winter-interview

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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http://www.westeros.org/GoT/News/Entry/ForTheThrone_Videos_Reveal_April_Premiere_Date

I suspect HBO is framing their marketing campaign around this "#ForTheThrone" hashtag in an attempt to make it all the more impactful when the Iron Throne and King's Landing are presumably destroyed in a wildfire/dragonfire conflagration. Which is not to say that a new capital and throne couldn't later be established somewhere else, such as Harrenhal, for example. But in the moment it would be surprising (for the many viewers who don't seriously speculate about this stuff), make for a powerful symbol, and no doubt have people wondering, "What on earth happens now?"

A couple of comments I saw on Reddit also bringing up this idea:

/u/ThisIsKramerica: "This “for the throne” hashtag makes me think there will be no throne at the end of s8. Help with the perceived twist of it all"

/u/kingbdogz: "I'm 100% certain it's a bait and switch. They want people to ponder who will make it on the throne, only to pull the rug underneath them when the Throne is either destroyed or the people we think want it don't pursue it in the end."

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