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Ben Chambers

Season 8 prediction

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So I’m rewatching S7 and in episode 5, Dany asks Jon about “taking a dagger in the heart”. I’m yet to watch the next two episodes again but in this scene, Dany makes a big deal about it.

It’s already a theory (the Azor Ahai reborn thing) but I think this stresses even more that Dany is going to have to sacrifice herself to save Westeros. I guess you could say that Jon will, but he’s already died once. Plus, now that they’re ‘together’ I think Dany would be more inclined to be as honourable as Jon. She is in love with him and wants to do good by Westeros (again, something which is made a big deal of throughout the show)

On top of this, Varys claims that he has always supported the person whom he thinks is ‘right for the people’. I’m not saying that Varys knows that Dany will have to sacrifice herself but I think it’s a hint by the writers. 

thoughts???

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There's already a super-long thread on the subject of "Season 8 predictions".

You'll get more luck getting resposes to your feedback there: 

 

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That is possible. Although in general theories based on one quote are by definition very flimsey. Especially when the quote is very literal and serving a very important plot function. 

When you first came here Ser Davos said you took a knife in the heart for your people.” 

This is both literally a true statement of the past regarding Jon and a major plot point in the season for three reasons 1.) Dany learning about Jon dying is a key part of her growing closer to him 2.) Jon growing comfortable with why he was brought back and accepting the reason or lack of reason is a key part of his arc in the season. 3.) that both Jon and Dany are leaders who are willing to sacrifice themselves is a key part of their parallel characters. She already sacrifices herself in episode 6 when she decides to head North.

While maybe it means she will take a knife to the heart, there are a lot of good reasons to not overinterpret it especially since its a literal statement about the past - i.e. no ambiguity to it - and serving very specific plot purposes. I would be more suspicious of the statement if it was written more ambigious and in a way that was not strictly necessary to further the plot. 

This is in contrast to the following statements which I feel could more clearly be foreshadowing because they are ambiguous and not necessary per say to advance the plot: 

If the Mad King's daughter takes the Iron Throne, she will destroy the Realm as we know it.”

Cersei says this. Why do we need that if in the statement? Could have been written as The Mad King’s daughter is here to destory the realm as we know it. But it specifically says If she takes the Iron Throne.... so possibly could be foreshadowing for revolutionary change from Dany when she takes the Iron Throne. Or not. We don’t know. But its an odd sentence none the less since technically it could have been phrased more simply. 

When the war is won the queen will need a new warden of the south.” 

Or this. Jaime could have said Cersei will need a new warden of the south. Or he could have said Cersei will name you warden of the south if you join us. Instead its Queen and not Cersei and its when the war is one and not now. Good chance that this is foreshadowing that when the war is won whoever is Queen will be naming a warden of the south - especially since the very next scene transition is Sam. 

Or this 

“We will discuss the succesion after I wear the crown”

This is either forwshadowing that she will wear the crown at some point or she never will. But its a weird sentence and not a necessary one - the conversation could have ended with her walking away or saying I don’t want to talk about this or any other number of ways that did not have the statement “when i wear the crown” - which raises the chances its forwshadowing of some kind. 

Or this 

“I will not set foot in King’s Landing while Cersei Lannister is Queen”

Sansa says this to Brienne when she sends her away. Technically the sentence is not necessary as written. Scene works without it. Very possile foreshadowing that Cersei will not be Queen at some point in the story and that Sansa will return to King’s Landing then. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

There's already a super-long thread on the subject of "Season 8 predictions".

You'll get more luck getting resposes to your feedback there: 

 

Lol. I should be more respectful of that. 

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11 hours ago, jcmontea said:

:blink:

What if that knife will be made from dragonglass? Night's Queen. That could be very interesting development.

So far people speculated that Bran is the Night's King, or will become next NK, or that Starks and WW are connected, and that Jon will become next NK.

But if Dany will become NQ, that could be a perfect bittersweet ending - their child is ruling 7K, while mother and father are separated by The Wall, and fighting against each other, Dany Queen of White Walkers, and Jon Lord Commander of Nights Watch.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

:blink:

What if that knife will be made from dragonglass? Night's Queen. That could be very interesting development.

So far people speculated that Bran is the Night's King, or will become next NK, or that Starks and WW are connected, and that Jon will become next NK.

But if Dany will become NQ, that could be a perfect bittersweet ending - their child is ruling 7K, while mother and father are separated by The Wall, and fighting against each other, Dany Queen of White Walkers, and Jon Lord Commander of Nights Watch.

GRRM said the end will be “the end” for good and will leave no room for sequels, an everlasting WW threat would leave the end open for future books.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

:blink:

What if that knife will be made from dragonglass? Night's Queen. That could be very interesting development.

So far people speculated that Bran is the Night's King, or will become next NK, or that Starks and WW are connected, and that Jon will become next NK.

But if Dany will become NQ, that could be a perfect bittersweet ending - their child is ruling 7K, while mother and father are separated by The Wall, and fighting against each other, Dany Queen of White Walkers, and Jon Lord Commander of Nights Watch.

I would say in terms of order of probability regarding Dany ends... 

Most probable: Queen of Westeros - 65-85%  

2nd most probable: heroic death - 10-25% 

3rd most probable: killed in a bloody struggle for the throne with Jon after going Mad Queen 1-5%

.....

Least most probable: Night Queen 0-1% 

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5 hours ago, Megorova said:

:blink:

What if that knife will be made from dragonglass? Night's Queen. That could be very interesting development.

So far people speculated that Bran is the Night's King, or will become next NK, or that Starks and WW are connected, and that Jon will become next NK.

But if Dany will become NQ, that could be a perfect bittersweet ending - their child is ruling 7K, while mother and father are separated by The Wall, and fighting against each other, Dany Queen of White Walkers, and Jon Lord Commander of Nights Watch.

Assuming that they somehow even know how to transform a human into a NK/NQ now when all the CotF are dead, why would Dany specifically become NQ? Why not just have Jon who's more knowledgeable about the WW's and the north become the new NK? 

I think people might read too much into the whole "stabbed in the heart"-thing. Jon was stabbed in the heart, and resurrected. There's no parallel between Jon and Dany here, other than using said event (Jon's death and resurrection) as one of the reasons why Dany ultimately comes to be intrigued by Jon's selflessness, humbleness (since she had to discover it for herself without him saying anything) and the length he's willing to go in order to do the right thing.

Not everything that happens to Jon will happen to Dany and vice verca...or will we see Jon married of against his will by Sansa in season 8, and consecutively see him raped on his wedding night? :blink:

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33 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Assuming that they somehow even know how to transform a human into a NK/NQ now when all the CotF are dead, why would Dany specifically become NQ? Why not just have Jon who's more knowledgeable about the WW's and the north become the new NK? 

I think people might read too much into the whole "stabbed in the heart"-thing. Jon was stabbed in the heart, and resurrected. There's no parallel between Jon and Dany here, other than using said event (Jon's death and resurrection) as one of the reasons why Dany ultimately comes to be intrigued by Jon's selflessness, humbleness (since she had to discover it for herself without him saying anything) and the length he's willing to go in order to do the right thing.

Not everything that happens to Jon will happen to Dany and vice verca...or will we see Jon married of against his will by Sansa in season 8, and consecutively see him raped on his wedding night? :blink:

You might be on to something. 

The butt shot during #epicboatsex might be foreshadowing for the season 8 Jon wedding night rape scene. 

In fact, Jon will be sold off to the Mountain after Dany becomes the Night Queen and takes all the white walkers back to the north. :rolleyes::unsure::blink::bang:

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26 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

The butt shot during #epicboatsex might be foreshadowing for the season 8 Jon wedding night rape scene. 

Sansa: "I would let his whole army fuck you, all 100.000 wights and the giants too, if that's what it took."
Jon: "... :| "

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5 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Sansa: "I would let his whole army fuck you, all 100.000 wights and the giants too, if that's what it took."
Jon: "... :| "

Lol!

Vicerys was such a douche

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21 hours ago, TRILOGY said:

GRRM said the end will be “the end” for good and will leave no room for sequels, an everlasting WW threat would leave the end open for future books.

Does it mean that in the end of ASOIAF giant comet will destroy Planetos? If not, then there's always possibility of a sequel, or a repeating of WW threat (because there's still lots of dragonglass in their world, and even one piece can create new Night's King).

21 hours ago, jcmontea said:

2nd most probable: heroic death - 10-25% 

Really? :blink: Only 25% that she'll die? You're very optimistic ^_^

16 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Assuming that they somehow even know how to transform a human into a NK/NQ now when all the CotF are dead, why would Dany specifically become NQ? Why not just have Jon who's more knowledgeable about the WW's and the north become the new NK? 

Current Night's King will turn her into Night's Queen. By dragonglass knife into her heart.

17 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Jon was stabbed in the heart, and resurrected. There's no parallel between Jon and Dany here

What about Azor Ahai and his wife Misa Misa?

Azor Ahai tried to make a sword out of meteorite ore. But the sword was constantly breaking, so in the end to complete it, Azor Ahai plunged it into heart of his wife, and forged sword in her blood. Then with this sword he defeated previous NK.

Dany was called Misa by people in Essos. And Jon is new Azor Ahai. So there is a parellel.

16 hours ago, jcmontea said:

In fact, Jon will be sold off to the Mountain after Dany becomes the Night Queen and takes all the white walkers back to the north.

:D Arya will save him.

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9 minutes ago, Megorova said:

 

Really? :blink: Only 25% that she'll die? You're very optimistic ^_^

Yea. George wrote in 93 that she makes it through the end of the show/ books. I think going from 100% certainty to 75% is a good enough adjustment. 

 

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8 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Yea. George wrote in 93 that she makes it through the end of the show/ books.

But that was nearly 25 years ago. By the time Season 8 will come out, it will be 25+ years ago.

At that time GRRM also planned Tyrion + Arya (or was it love triangle between TxAxJon, or Jon x Sansa x someone else. Something like that). But he changed it, and in GOT that plot also didn't happened. Furthermore GRRM can end ASOIAF in one way, and D&D will end GOT differently.

D&D in show merged in Jon character, plot lines of book-Jon and Young Griff.

In GOT Jon was resurected, and currently he is absolutely alive. But in the books Cat and Berrick are fire wights, they're not a living beings. Which means that even if book-Jon will be revived by Melisandre, he won't be alive. Thus Dany's child won't be Jon's child, in the books the father will be Griff. Aldo after R+L did their part, GRRM offed them. Based on the same logic, if there will be a Targaryen child (D+G), then there's no reason to keep any of them alive. Fire wight Jon will die in battle against Night's King. Dany will die in childbirth, like her own mother, and Lyanna. And Griff will die in some other battle. Furthermore in the book, D+J is very unlikely, because Griff is between them. Jon is in the North, Griff is in Stormlands, and Dany is in Meereen. So she's not getting to Jon, without crossing her path with Griff. They both are Targaryens, he planned to marry with her since long ago. So the moment book-Dany will set her foot in Westeros, D+G will happen.

Dany is needed only until she will give birth to new Targaryen. After that her plot armor will be gone.

Furthermore in the show they hinted that she'll die. When she didn't wanted to discuss with Tyrion possible successor. When in her vision she went away from Iron Throne into the land of dead, and reunited there with Drogo and her son. When in promo video of S7, Jon, Dany and Cersei close their eyes, and then Cersei opens her eyes and exhales steam, and camera switches to eye of NK. Which may mean that all three of them will die, but Cersei after her death will be turned by NK into wight. Also in other promo there were faces of all of them on the wall in the temple of Death (House of Faceless Men).

So I would say that 25% survive, 75% die, is more likely. Though possibility that she will die, but then will be revived by Melisandre, as her final miracle, is 50%.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

But that was nearly 25 years ago. By the time Season 8 will come out, it will be 25+ years ago.

At that time GRRM also planned Tyrion + Arya (or was it love triangle between TxAxJon, or Jon x Sansa x someone else. Something like that). But he changed it, and in GOT that plot also didn't happened. Furthermore GRRM can end ASOIAF in one way, and D&D will end GOT differently.

D&D in show merged in Jon character, plot lines of book-Jon and Young Griff.

In GOT Jon was resurected, and currently he is absolutely alive. But in the books Cat and Berrick are fire wights, they're not a living beings. Which means that even if book-Jon will be revived by Melisandre, he won't be alive. Thus Dany's child won't be Jon's child, in the books the father will be Griff. Aldo after R+L did their part, GRRM offed them. Based on the same logic, if there will be a Targaryen child (D+G), then there's no reason to keep any of them alive. Fire wight Jon will die in battle against Night's King. Dany will die in childbirth, like her own mother, and Lyanna. And Griff will die in some other battle. Furthermore in the book, D+J is very unlikely, because Griff is between them. Jon is in the North, Griff is in Stormlands, and Dany is in Meereen. So she's not getting to Jon, without crossing her path with Griff. They both are Targaryens, he planned to marry with her since long ago. So the moment book-Dany will set her foot in Westeros, D+G will happen.

Dany is needed only until she will give birth to new Targaryen. After that her plot armor will be gone.

Furthermore in the show they hinted that she'll die. When she didn't wanted to discuss with Tyrion possible successor. When in her vision she went away from Iron Throne into the land of dead, and reunited there with Drogo and her son. When in promo video of S7, Jon, Dany and Cersei close their eyes, and then Cersei opens her eyes and exhales steam, and camera switches to eye of NK. Which may mean that all three of them will die, but Cersei after her death will be turned by NK into wight. Also in other promo there were faces of all of them on the wall in the temple of Death (House of Faceless Men).

So I would say that 25% survive, 75% die, is more likely. Though possibility that she will die, but then will be revived by Melisandre, as her final miracle, is 50%.

I disagree. 

Honeslty, nothing really important has changed since that original outline. If anything Dany’s role has only gotten more important since she became Jon’s love interest instead of Arya so no real reason I think to discount it by as much as you said. 

The kid is going to be born at the end of the last episode and the show ain’t ending with Dany dying in child birth. Its going to be the fire ending to a story that started with an ice beggining - the targaryens creating life vs the white walkers extinguishing it. A Dream of Spring - one of several - to end the story on. Its going to parallel the first season which also ended with Dany giving birth. The fire as life ending to the death as ice beggining the episode will start with when Jaime and Cersei kill each other. We will be left to wonder how will the coin flip come up for that kid: Targaryen genius or Targaryen crazy. We won’t know the answer but we will have some hope since life at the beggining is always hopeful and full of promise. 

D&D will have the same ending as  GRRM for the major characters. But if they didn’t i think its more likely they would keep her alive versus not because she is one of the most popular characters. But her story ends the same way in the books. 

Thats my current theory. Not tin foil but who knows. 

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3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Does it mean that in the end of ASOIAF giant comet will destroy Planetos? If not, then there's always possibility of a sequel

Tell that to GRRM, that's what he said. :P All the plot points will be wrapped up in the last episode/book.

Quote

or a repeating of WW threat (because there's still lots of dragonglass in their world, and even one piece can create new Night's King).

The children of the forest created the NK, not a piece of dragon glass, there is some speculation that the dragons and the others (magical creatures) will all perish together and magic will leave the world. No magic, no WW threat. 

Quote

Dany is needed only until she will give birth to new Targaryen. After that her plot armor will be gone.

You're.... reducing a complex character to the status of a walking womb? :mellow: I hope you're wrong. 

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5 hours ago, Megorova said:

What about Azor Ahai and his wife Misa Misa?

Azor Ahai tried to make a sword out of meteorite ore. But the sword was constantly breaking, so in the end to complete it, Azor Ahai plunged it into heart of his wife, and forged sword in her blood. Then with this sword he defeated previous NK.

Dany was called Misa by people in Essos. And Jon is new Azor Ahai. So there is a parellel.

Mhysa, not Misa, and Nissa Nissa, not Misa Misa. Quite different so there's no parallel. 

Even so, I'm gonna humor you: The original AA tried two make two swords, but they shattered. He didn't succeed until his third attempt, but it also claimed the life of his wife. There is someone on the show (and in the books) who fits metaphorically, but it's not Jon (when did he attempt to forge two "swords" that ended up breaking?) - It's Rhaegar.

The swords can easily be a metaphor since prophecies are never that literal. Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophecy, and made two children ("swords") with Elia Martell. Neither of them ended up being the Lightbringer, and they both shattered (literally, the Mountain cleaved them in half). His third attempt, Jon, may have succeeded, but it too claimed the life of his wife, since Lyanna died giving birth to Jon.

Tinfoil warning? Perhaps, but far more likely than Jon being AA and stabbing Daenerys in the chest in S8 only to draw forth a burning (actual) sword from her body.


 

Quote

Dany is needed only until she will give birth to new Targaryen. After that her plot armor will be gone.



That's a rather strange, tragic and some would say sexist approach to a character who's been in the show for 7, soon 8 seasons. Talk about taking all of her achievements and tossing them into the dirt; "They mean nothing, just give birth to a child so you can die."

Quote

Furthermore in the show they hinted that she'll die. When she didn't wanted to discuss with Tyrion possible successor. When in her vision she went away from Iron Throne into the land of dead, and reunited there with Drogo and her son. When in promo video of S7, Jon, Dany and Cersei close their eyes, and then Cersei opens her eyes and exhales steam, and camera switches to eye of NK. Which may mean that all three of them will die, but Cersei after her death will be turned by NK into wight. Also in other promo there were faces of all of them on the wall in the temple of Death (House of Faceless Men)


When you assume, you make an "ass" out of "u" and "me".

The talk about succession from Tyrions PoV makes sense, as he's concerned with her well being and had recently seen several attempts on her life. The talk also makes sense from a story PoV, as it's one of the many (not so subtle) cases of foreshadowing of her getting pregnant next season.

Her vision in the house of the undying might be foreshadowing of her death (north of the wall...why?), but it might also (and this is more likely) be foreshadowing of events that has already happened: Dany ignoring the throne when it was within her reach to instead go north of the wall and meet her husband and future child, except it's not Drogo and Rhaego but Jon and *to-be-decided*.

The promo video of S7 foreshadows absolutely nothing in regards to characters dying. The promo focused on Jon, Dany and Cersei because at this point in the story, they are the only remaining actual rulers left. If Cersei exhaling steam would point to her impending demise, then it would've happened already in S7, but it didn't. If anything it foreshadowed that winter would come to Kings Landing, which it also did.

While it's true that the promo-pictures contains Cersei's, Jon's and Dany's faces in the House of Black and White (along with several other faces of characters who are indeed dead), the very same promo-pictures also contains the faces of Jamie, Tyrion, Sansa and Arya. Do you really believe that all of these 7 characters will die in S8? 
Oh well, there goes the bittersweet/lotr-style ending, instead it seems we get a tragic ending where everyone of the major characters dies. :/
(I'm being facetious of course.)

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9 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Mhysa, not Misa, and Nissa Nissa, not Misa Misa. Quite different so there's no parallel. 

Even so, I'm gonna humor you: The original AA tried two make two swords, but they shattered. He didn't succeed until his third attempt, but it also claimed the life of his wife. There is someone on the show (and in the books) who fits metaphorically, but it's not Jon (when did he attempt to forge two "swords" that ended up breaking?) - It's Rhaegar.

The swords can easily be a metaphor since prophecies are never that literal. Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophecy, and made two children ("swords") with Elia Martell. Neither of them ended up being the Lightbringer, and they both shattered (literally, the Mountain cleaved them in half). His third attempt, Jon, may have succeeded, but it too required claimed the life of his wife, since Lyanna died giving birth to Jon.

Tinfoil warning? Perhaps, but far more likely than Jon being AA and stabbing Daenerys in the chest in S8 only to draw forth a burning (actual) sword from her body.


 



That's a rather strange, tragic and some would say sexist approach to a character who's been in the show for 7, soon 8 seasons. Talk about taking all of her achievements and tossing them into the dirt; "They mean nothing, just give birth to a child so you can die."

This is undermining all the good work from that great blue rose pics 

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16 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

This is undermining all the good work from that great blue rose pics 

I expanded my post in regards to the other death predictions, but yeah - you win some, you loose some. :P

I admire Megorovas tenacity and imagination, but as Queen Amidala would tell her, she assumes too much (when there's no real proof backing it up).

 

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48 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

I expanded my post in regards to the other death predictions, but yeah - you win some, you loose some. :P

I admire Megorovas tenacity and imagination, but as Queen Amidala would tell her, she assumes too much (when there's no real proof backing it up).

 

Part of what makes discussing this stuff fun is the tin foil!!! Crazy theories make you question your assumptions and why you trully think certain things. Also, can open up thinking. 

If it wasn’t for so many people saying Dany was going to die I would probably be way too optimistic that she will survive which even if she does would take some of the tension out of watching the last season. 

What do you think about the idea i floated above? That some “Fire” themed scene is how the story will end to perfectly book end how the show began with the white walkers “Ice” and also parallel how the first season was perfectly bookended with “Ice” and “Fire”

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