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Ben Chambers

Season 8 prediction

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16 hours ago, TRILOGY said:

You're.... reducing a complex character to the status of a walking womb?

GRRM reduced Lyanna to that status.

16 hours ago, TRILOGY said:

The children of the forest created the NK, not a piece of dragon glass,

NK knows what they did to him. He can repeat the same procedure on someone else.

I'm not saying that Dany will 100% become NQ, but there is a possibility.

14 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

The original AA tried two make two swords, but they shattered. He didn't succeed until his third attempt, but it also claimed the life of his wife. There is someone on the show (and in the books) who fits metaphorically, but it's not Jon (when did he attempt to forge two "swords" that ended up breaking?) - It's Rhaegar.

The swords can easily be a metaphor since prophecies are never that literal. Rhaegar was obsessed with the prophecy, and made two children ("swords") with Elia Martell. Neither of them ended up being the Lightbringer, and they both shattered (literally, the Mountain cleaved them in half). His third attempt, Jon, may have succeeded, but it too claimed the life of his wife, since Lyanna died giving birth to Jon.

Tinfoil warning?

No. Pure fanfiction.

(Rhaegar was making dragon heads, not swords :D)

14 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

That's a rather strange, tragic and some would say sexist approach to a character who's been in the show for 7, soon 8 seasons. Talk about taking all of her achievements and tossing them into the dirt; "They mean nothing, just give birth to a child so you can die."

What is her plot armor? Dragons? No, they can be killed, as we already saw.

So what could it be?

Her plot armor is that she's the only remaining female Targaryen.

She's the only person in Planetos that has 100% Targaryen blood, whose both parents were Targaryens. Jon is only 50% Targaryen. He's children with anyone else aside from Dany, will be only 25% Targaryens - same percentage of Targaryen blood had Robert, Stannis and Renly. Dany's and Jon's children will be 75% Targaryens. Same as Dany's and Griff's, who is also only 50% Targaryen, same as Jon.

Dany's main trait and her plot armor is that she's a Targaryen.

She's going to conquer Westeros because she is a Targaryen. She stopped being a pushover because she realised that she's a Targaryen, and started to act like one, like a person in whose veins runs dragon blood.

Driving force of all of her achievements is that she's a Targaryen.

And everything that she did, she did it for the future. Without children, there is no future. Without next generation of Targaryens, there's no point in anything that she accomplished so far. If she will die childless, it's all over for the new world, the way she wanted to make it (break the wheel, etc).

She's protected from death, until she will give birth to a daughter.

14 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Her vision in the house of the undying might be foreshadowing of her death (north of the wall...why?), but it might also (and this is more likely) be foreshadowing of events that has already happened: Dany ignoring the throne when it was within her reach to instead go north of the wall and meet her husband and future child, except it's not Drogo and Rhaego but Jon and *to-be-decided*.

Beyond The Wall is The Land of Always Winter. Drogo and Rhaego are dead. In her vision Dany went beyong The Wall, but it was metaphorical Wall, she went beyond the veil that separates world of the living and world of the dead.

14 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Do you really believe that all of these 7 characters will die in S8? 
Oh well, there goes the bittersweet/lotr-style ending, instead it seems we get a tragic ending where everyone of the major characters dies. :/
(I'm being facetious of course.)

All major players of GOT died (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Jaime and Cersei) <- bitter-sweet -> humankind survived and life goes on.

13 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Part of what makes discussing this stuff fun is the tin foil!!! Crazy theories make you question your assumptions and why you trully think certain things. Also, can open up thinking. 

Exactly. :agree:

When years ago people thought up theories that R+L=J, other people were mocking them, and saying that those theories are crazy, and where are those mockers now?

Here's the crazy theory for next season: Jon will fight against Undead Army with Dawn sword, that previously belonged to Arthur Dayne. That sword will either be given to Jon by Howland Reed, or he will find it in crypts of Winterfell, close to where Lyanna is buried.

Dawn sword is Lightbringer of Azor Ahai 2.

Theories for the book:

1. Ashara Dayne is alive. She's wife of Howland Reed Jyana.

2. Their daughter Meera was conceived in 281, during Tourney at Harenhall, and was born in 282 at Starfall castle in Dorne.

3. Edric Dayne, current Lord of Starfall is twin brother of Jojen Reed. And he was born in 286 at the Greywater Watch.

4. His wet nurse Wylla originally worked at Starfall, as wet nurse of Ashara's daughter. Then after events in Tower of Joy, she went with newborn Jon and Ned to Winterfell. After Jyana Reed gave birth to two boys, she summoned Wylla to her. Wylla took one of those boys, and brought him to Starfall, where he became Edric Dayne.

5. Ned didn't returned Dawn sword to Arthur's family. He either gave that sword to Ashara and Howland. Or he took it to Winterfell, and hid it in Lyanna's crypt.

Edited by Megorova

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13 hours ago, jcmontea said:

What do you think about the idea i floated above? That some “Fire” themed scene is how the story will end to perfectly book end how the show began with the white walkers “Ice” and also parallel how the first season was perfectly bookended with “Ice” and “Fire”

Not bad.

GOT started with a scene with a wight little girl, and it will end with a scene with a Targaryen little girl.

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4 hours ago, Megorova said:

No. Pure fanfiction.

(Rhaegar was making dragon heads, not swords :D)

It's interesting how you completely ignore the fact that I called you out on Mhysa not being the same as Nissa-Nissa, and then call my theory (which actually has some merit) pure fanfiction. At least have the decency to admit when you're being proven wrong.

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

She's protected from death, until she will give birth to a daughter.

Agree to disagree, and you're still reducing her to nothing but a walking womb.
If all she ever needed to do is give birth to a daughter, all her accomplishments means nothing. All she's done and suffered for during the last 7 seasons means nothing. 

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

Beyond The Wall is The Land of Always Winter. Drogo and Rhaego are dead. In her vision Dany went beyong The Wall, but it was metaphorical Wall, she went beyond the veil that separates world of the living and world of the dead.

You're totally ignoring what I wrote, and just push your own assumptions...as usual.

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

All major players of GOT died (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Jaime and Cersei) <- bitter-sweet -> humankind survived and life goes on.

Having all the main characters die is not a bittersweet ending, it's very much a tragic ending. 

 

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6 hours ago, Megorova said:

GRRM reduced Lyanna to that status.

Lyanna is a one-dimensional character, she's not comparable to a POV character with 30+ chapters. 

Dany's "plot armor" > Dragons, Fire personified, ending the long night, break the wheel, and possibly Targaryen restoration. 

Edited by TRILOGY

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32 minutes ago, TRILOGY said:

Lyanna is a one-dimensional character, she's not comparable to a POV character with 30+ chapters. 

Dany's "plot armor" > Dragons, Fire personified, ending the long night, break the wheel, and possibly Targaryen restoration. 

Targaryen restoration! 

This video is such a Targ hype video. Only two years to go.... :bang:

 

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9 hours ago, Megorova said:

GOT started with a scene with a wight little girl, and it will end with a scene with a Targaryen little girl.

No.

GoT started with a scene including Ser Waymar Royce and two rangers. Then it it will end with a scene with a member of House Royce…

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

No.

GoT started with a scene including Ser Waymar Royce and two rangers. Then it it will end with a scene with a member of House Royce…

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yoyn Royce the PWWP

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12 hours ago, TRILOGY said:

Lyanna is a one-dimensional character,

Because of that 'one-dimensional character'

1. the rebellion began,

2. tens of thousands people died,

3. her own father and brother were burned alive/strangled,

4. nearly entire Targaryen dinasty became extinct,

King Aerys, Prince Rhaegar, little Aegon and his sister Rhaenys. Queen Rhaella died giving birth to her child, while being practically imprisoned at Dragonston. Maybe there wasn't even maester there. Maybe if she was giving birth, while she was home in Red Keep, she would've survived. Viserys and Daenerys were forced to be exiled from Westeros. Aegon Targaryen/Martell, legitimate son of Crown Prince, was supposed to become next King after Rhaegar, but instead he was smashed by the Mountain.

5. Lannister family became rulers of 7K. Tywin, Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen, Cersei again.

Quote

she's not comparable to a POV character with 30+ chapters. 

If not Lyanna's unwitting intervention in 7K's politics, we would never have even one chapter with Daenerys' POV.

Without Lyanna, now there wouldn't be Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, the Unburnt, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons.

Without (how you phrased it - one-dimensional character) Lyanna, there would be only Daenerys Targaryen Insignificant, Third child of King Aerys, Little sister of Crown Prince Rhaegar, Wife of second prince Viserys, Mother of his insignificant children (non of which will ever wear a crown, or sit on Iron Throne); welcoming hostess, that during family feasts and festivities, will be entertaining their guests, with her weird talent, to take with her bare hands piece of burning coal out of fire, and stay unburned.

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4 hours ago, Megorova said:

Because of that 'one-dimensional character'

1. the rebellion began,

etc etc

So what? Everything happened during her pregnancy and after her death without her having any role in all these events… What's your point?

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On 10/7/2017 at 1:20 PM, Megorova said:

Not bad.

GOT started with a scene with a wight little girl, and it will end with a scene with a Targaryen little girl.

Sometimes I wish shows like this could be fan written. 

Just get like 3 fans who are solid writers, and have them kinda crowd source plot points and scenes and use their skill to weave it all together. 

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1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

So what? Everything happened during her pregnancy and after her death without her having any role in all these events… What's your point?

If Lyanna never existed, or if she didn't went with Rhaegar, or if she didn't became pregnant, then at this point of time in Planetos, Rhaegar would be the King, Dany would be with her husband and children at Dragonstone, and Undead Army with 100,000+ wights, and dozens of giants, would be already on this side of The Wall (after giants broke the gates, same way it was done during wildlings' attack at Castle Black). 

My point is that even though the only thing Lyanna did, was giving birth to Jon, she still was/is a very important character. And back to the main topic of our disagreement - Dany's main trait is that she's a Targaryen, her main value is that she's the only remaining female Targaryen, thus the most important thing she will do in her life, is giving birth to next generation of Targaryens. She may be a walking womb, as someone in this thread replied to my post, but this doesn't make her insignificant, or unimportant. Though the main reason why Dany IS important is all thanks to Lyanna, and her influence on politics of 7K. Without Lyanna, now Dany would have been one of two female Targaryens of reproductive age - she and her niece Rhaenys. But now Dany is the only female Targaryen, thus she won't die until she at least give birth to a daughter. After that her plot armor will be gone. Same as her mother's, when Dany was born, there was no need for GRRM to keep Rhaella alive.

Dany's plot armor will remain invincible until she will give birth. Same as Jon won't die, until he will defeat Night's King. Their destiny, their purpose, meaning of their lives were always predefined - it's to become Mother of dragons (i.e. Targaryens) and Azor Ahai.

41 minutes ago, MrJay said:

Sometimes I wish shows like this could be fan written. 

Just get like 3 fans who are solid writers, and have them kinda crowd source plot points and scenes and use their skill to weave it all together. 

Maybe originally D&D were also fans of ASOIAF and GRRM, but then entertainment industry, money and fame corrupted them, and they started to write :bs: instead of good stories.

Edited by Megorova

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14 hours ago, Megorova said:

Because of that 'one-dimensional character'

1. the rebellion began,

2. tens of thousands people died,

3. her own father and brother were burned alive/strangled,

4. nearly entire Targaryen dinasty became extinct,

King Aerys, Prince Rhaegar, little Aegon and his sister Rhaenys. Queen Rhaella died giving birth to her child, while being practically imprisoned at Dragonston. Maybe there wasn't even maester there. Maybe if she was giving birth, while she was home in Red Keep, she would've survived. Viserys and Daenerys were forced to be exiled from Westeros. Aegon Targaryen/Martell, legitimate son of Crown Prince, was supposed to become next King after Rhaegar, but instead he was smashed by the Mountain.

5. Lannister family became rulers of 7K. Tywin, Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen, Cersei again.

If not Lyanna's unwitting intervention in 7K's politics, we would never have even one chapter with Daenerys' POV.

Without Lyanna, now there wouldn't be Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, the Unburnt, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons.

Without (how you phrased it - one-dimensional character) Lyanna, there would be only Daenerys Targaryen Insignificant, Third child of King Aerys, Little sister of Crown Prince Rhaegar, Wife of second prince Viserys, Mother of his insignificant children (non of which will ever wear a crown, or sit on Iron Throne); welcoming hostess, that during family feasts and festivities, will be entertaining their guests, with her weird talent, to take with her bare hands piece of burning coal out of fire, and stay unburned.

Complex characters: You can get a sense of their personality and rest of their life from what's portrayed, you can sense their motivations, dreams, fears, etc. 

It's as opposed to one-dimensional characters that are merely there to serve the story. Lyanna plays an important role in the story (her purpose: what you mentioned) but she's a mystery, an interesting (at least, for me) and one-dimensional character. 

Edited by TRILOGY

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Yeah you can't really compare Lyanna Stark and Daenerys Targaryen and say that they're "the same" just because they both have (or rather, soon will have?) given birth to an important person. Saying that a character is one-dimensional doesn't remove the fact that said character is important to the story.

Lyanna is not a PoV-character, we (the audience) have only spent a handful on minutes with her (on screen) and don't really know much about her. We know very little of her personality, what she liked, what she wanted, what her dreams where before she died, how she grew up, what she feared, etc. It's hard to form a real opinion about her given how little we actually know about her. People can judge her based on the little we know about her ("Poor Lyanna, died in childbirth" or "Stupid Lyanna, her crush and inability to tell her father caused a war that killed thousands") but it's hard to actually make a fair judgement and relate to her given that we barely know anything about her at all.

Daenerys on the other hand is a PoV-character that we've spend many hours with. We know much, almost all there is to know about her personality, motivation, dreams, fears, goals, etc. We can relate to Daenerys (for better or worse) in a whole different way than we can to Lyanna. We know enough about her to make an actual judgement regarding if we like or dislike her based on the character actions.

Edit: For clarification, I agree with @TRILOGY

Edited by MinscS2

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