Adaneth Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said: Out of curiosity why do you feel for Stannis? I think a lot has to do with what's to come, about Shireen. So there is a big parallel with Agamennone there. But unlike Agamenone (which I never liked) Stannis throughout his life lived in the shadow of Robert and he feels he wasn't treated fairly by him. He's such a bleak and gloomy person. There is sadness in him, yet he is so resilient and bound to duty. I rather admire that, yet I feel for him smh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I think Stannis might well fit into the definition of "tragic". His actions caused his fate (assuming he dies, of course... :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 My choice is Victorian. I know it's kind of repititive, but he really doesn't even try that hard to think things through. All the other characters that people mention at least try to make smart decisions. Victorian just cannot wrap his head around what might happen if he does something. Lack of social understanding : check. Lack of ability to make complex plans : check. Walking into other people's barely veiled traps : check. Lack of empathy : check. Also a note on some others on this list. I do think Cersei makes a lot of decisions without accurately knowing how others will react. Robb and Eddard both value honor too much over intelligent decision making. Eddard telling Cersei his plan may be the stupidest individual action in the series. Howver every single character has done something that was not that smart, Eddard's was just ripe with consequences. Robb killing Rickard Karstark and breaking his marriage promise are also up there. Jaime wildly bumbling into Robb's trap. Sansa trusting Cersei. Jon Snow letting the random man who they would kill anyway live. Daenerys loving a sellsword captain. Tyrion loving a prostitute (who quite obviosly felt nothing for him) (and ps those who understand Tyrion and not Daenerys might want to check their sexism-o-meter). Aeron doing anything religiously motivated. Theon jumping the loyalty ship for a father's approval. Brienne trusting Dick Crabb (although he was telling the truth). Cersei trapping Maergerry and expecting everything to work out well. Arya's three murders (i know she is kid, but she could have changed the whole war with the right choices. spend some more time choosing!) Bran comtrolli g Hodor without ever thinking about it...(is this stupid or just completely without empathy?), Arianne's awful plan, Aerys thinking Arianne's plan was good, Qynten's even worse plan (involving dragons), and lastly and most painfully (because she is my favorite character), Catelyn's trust in Petyr Bailish and her sister. I understand you grew up with them, but especially in Petyr's case, she should have known better (p.s. I like Catelyn and actually think she makes better decisions than many other charactera considering what information she has access too. I also think a lot of the fan hate against her, as well as Daenerys and Brienne (perhaps Arianne as well) is because she is a woman). Anyways, in conclusion, over all, I choose Victorian becausw he is consistently stupid and cannot see what will happen at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 5:09 AM, Stormking902 said: I was speaking about IF Cat didnt arrest Tyrion at the inn, which if she didnt Tywin wouldnt invade the RL because he would have no reason to and Jamie wouldnt attack Ned in the streets because again there would be no need. Your correct about the Lannisters assuming Cat was informing Ned that Jamie was responsible for Brans fall but what could they do? Without Tywin in open rebellion they have no army and no power and they cant just murder Ned all his northmen, Robert and his KG, Renly and his men, etc........ Tywin almost certainly already had his army ready. How do you explain how quickly his army acts. To compare, look how disorganized the Riverlords are. They are unprepared for war, yet the Westerlands has not one, but two armies ready to go? Tywin was preparing for war before Tyrion was captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: Tywin almost certainly already had his army ready. How do you explain how quickly his army acts. To compare, look how disorganized the Riverlords are. They are unprepared for war, yet the Westerlands has not one, but two armies ready to go? Tywin was preparing for war before Tyrion was captured. I doubt it why would he be preparing for war? Bobby B is alive and well and married to Cersie with 3 heirs from her as far as he is concerned, attacking the RL out of the blue makes no sense. Yes tywins army mobilized quickly but we do not know how much time passed from when Tyrion was falsly arrested by Cat and when news hit Tywin and from that point when he attacked. If i remember correctly Ser Gregor and his some 300 men were sent out first while Tywins army mobilized ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: Arya's three murders (i know she is kid, but she could have changed the whole war with the right choices. spend some more time choosing!) One wish, the second. Which was more than compensated by the genius of the third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 14 hours ago, Caterina Sforza said: I think a lot has to do with what's to come, about Shireen. So there is a big parallel with Agamennone there. But unlike Agamenone (which I never liked) Stannis throughout his life lived in the shadow of Robert and he feels he wasn't treated fairly by him. He's such a bleak and gloomy person. There is sadness in him, yet he is so resilient and bound to duty. I rather admire that, yet I feel for him smh. Agamemnon? I'm with Clytemnestra on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adaneth Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 hours ago, the trees have eyes said: Agamemnon? I'm with Clytemnestra on this one. Lol Yeah, but Stannis wife def. isn't Clytemnestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 6:16 PM, Stormking902 said: I doubt it why would he be preparing for war? Bobby B is alive and well and married to Cersie with 3 heirs from her as far as he is concerned, attacking the RL out of the blue makes no sense. Yes tywins army mobilized quickly but we do not know how much time passed from when Tyrion was falsly arrested by Cat and when news hit Tywin and from that point when he attacked. If i remember correctly Ser Gregor and his some 300 men were sent out first while Tywins army mobilized ...... And yet tensions were high... Jon Arryn was dead. Bran Stark crippled. Lysa Arryn and Stannis Baratheon had fled. I personally think Tywin knew what was coming. Hell, everyone did. If Catelyn had not arrested Tyrion, Ned would have still discovered what he discovered. He probably would have still warned Cersei. Petyr Baelish would have still betrayed him. Renly would have still plotted to marry Robert to Maergerry. People act like Catelyn Tully's act was a lone act in an otherwise peaceful situation, which is either willfully ignorant (which wouldn't surprise me, after all people think people kneeling during the anthem is the problem, and not the inequality and racism that caused the protest in the first place) or just looking for a scapegoat to place the blame (also not surprsing : see support for the muslim ban). Catelyn Tully's act was just one of the many sparks all going off simultaneously, which began the war. You are right, I have no say to prove Tywin is preparing, but not only do I think he was, but I think Renly and Stannis were as well. If Robert had lived a little longer, Renly would have attempted his plan. There is no way Cersei could let that happen. And as much as I loathe Tywin Lannister, I do think he is intelligent. It is hard for me to believe he wouldn't be preparing. He knows what his children were up to. He knows Jon Arryn suddenly and mysteriously died (and probably suspects his children). He knows Eddard Stark, a man who hates him, is hand of the King. He knows Stannis disappeared to Dragonstone. I'm simply denying the importance you place on Tyrion's capture. This war was coming. As well, if he really cared about Tyrion's life, was war even the right move? He could have payed a ransom or asked for a proper trial or something. He just starts a war. Why does no one blame the war on who was truly responsible for the war : Tywin Lannister? He is the one who started the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Everyone who says Victarion is a dummy needs to revise. "On wings of song I fly to you, Daenerys." See? Victarion is a poet. (I know jokes don't translate well over the internet). I could actually sit here and write a dissertation about Doran Martell. Suffice to say that I think his actions might end up destroying his House. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a Dornish civil war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livesundersink Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 4 hours ago, Widow's Watch said: could actually sit here and write a dissertation about Doran Martell. Suffice to say that I think his actions might end up destroying his House. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a Dornish civil war. Please do, i would love to read that. I loved the chapter where Arianne lays everything out in front of him and tells him his grand plan has failed, yet in spite of all of this he still believes that he can make it work, I can't wait until he hears about Quentyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 16 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: And yet tensions were high... Jon Arryn was dead. Bran Stark crippled. Lysa Arryn and Stannis Baratheon had fled. I personally think Tywin knew what was coming. Hell, everyone did. If Catelyn had not arrested Tyrion, Ned would have still discovered what he discovered. He probably would have still warned Cersei. Petyr Baelish would have still betrayed him. Renly would have still plotted to marry Robert to Maergerry. People act like Catelyn Tully's act was a lone act in an otherwise peaceful situation, which is either willfully ignorant (which wouldn't surprise me, after all people think people kneeling during the anthem is the problem, and not the inequality and racism that caused the protest in the first place) or just looking for a scapegoat to place the blame (also not surprsing : see support for the muslim ban). Catelyn Tully's act was just one of the many sparks all going off simultaneously, which began the war. You are right, I have no say to prove Tywin is preparing, but not only do I think he was, but I think Renly and Stannis were as well. If Robert had lived a little longer, Renly would have attempted his plan. There is no way Cersei could let that happen. And as much as I loathe Tywin Lannister, I do think he is intelligent. It is hard for me to believe he wouldn't be preparing. He knows what his children were up to. He knows Jon Arryn suddenly and mysteriously died (and probably suspects his children). He knows Eddard Stark, a man who hates him, is hand of the King. He knows Stannis disappeared to Dragonstone. I'm simply denying the importance you place on Tyrion's capture. This war was coming. As well, if he really cared about Tyrion's life, was war even the right move? He could have payed a ransom or asked for a proper trial or something. He just starts a war. Why does no one blame the war on who was truly responsible for the war : Tywin Lannister? He is the one who started the war. Agreed. Both in story and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 On 10/22/2017 at 7:57 PM, Caterina Sforza said: I agree. Lol Who's the most tragic character, I wonder? I really do feel so much for Quentyn and I think Stannis is another candidate. Thank you. Sansa takes the cake for dummy. Tragic? Jon, Quentyn, Arya, and Aerys. Maybe Tyrion after all is said and done at the end. He has a tragic flaw that brings many men to ruin. He's an alcoholic and he's emotionally messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adaneth Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Thank you. Sansa takes the cake for dummy. Tragic? Jon, Quentyn, Arya, and Aerys. Maybe Tyrion after all is said and done at the end. He has a tragic flaw that brings many men to ruin. He's an alcoholic and he's emotionally messed up. Aerys? Interesting....why do you find him a tragic figure? Just because he's mad or you think there is a reason behind his madness and that's why? I agree about Tyrion, although I am not sure where his story is going or much less so the end. Arya too has a big potential but I need more story development for her character to form an opinion. I'm not sure about Jon till I see the ending. My feeling is that he will die but his story can go both ways actually. Idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobJ Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/5/2017 at 6:49 AM, Sigella said: Shout out to Catelyn... Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigella Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 24 minutes ago, RobJ said: Agree So awesome this was your first post! Welcome to the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 4:49 PM, Widow's Watch said: Everyone who says Victarion is a dummy needs to revise. "On wings of song I fly to you, Daenerys." See? Victarion is a poet. (I know jokes don't translate well over the internet). I could actually sit here and write a dissertation about Doran Martell. Suffice to say that I think his actions might end up destroying his House. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a Dornish civil war. I doubt if any of Doran, Arianne, Tyene, Nymeria, or Obara will survive the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 59 minutes ago, SeanF said: I doubt if any of Doran, Arianne, Tyene, Nymeria, or Obara will survive the series. Let's just say it wouldn't be shocking if the people you mentioned all died very painful deaths. Dorne is a powder keg and Doran set in motion a chain of events that he won't be able to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 1:19 PM, Livesundersink said: I can't wait until he hears about Quentyn. I can't help but feel sorry for poor Doran though. His marriage failed. His body is failing. He sent his oldest son to his death. He possibly sent his daughter to her death after he destroyed his relationship with her because of his secrecy. Finally his last child has one of the lowest Cyvasse ratings in all of Westeros, it's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 For my money, it is a tie between Theon and Cersei. They each make a long series of stupid decisions, one after another after another,, that is quite painful to read, despite the fact that I don't really care that much about either of them. Theon's land him in Ramsay's dungeon, while Cersei's get her a naked trip through King's Landing. And neither has the excuse of extreme youth, like Sansa, or extreme emotional stress, like Catelyn. And the Starks have made plenty of sensible decisions as well. Cersei and Theon are simply massive fools, and easily the dumbest major POVs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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