Livesundersink Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 For this post i'll assume that R+L=J. What are the possibilities for the reveal of Jon's mother? i find it unlikely that Howland Reed will just pop up out of nowhere and just say Jon, Lyanna was your mother and that will all that is said, we've also seen that Bran can see past events with his tree wizard shenanigans, but these powers haven't been explored much, ie can he take other people into these visions with him and show them what he sees?. Also how will Jon respond to this, we've seen throughout the books how much he thinks of himself as Ned's son and therefore it will take some serious evidence and persuasion to convince him otherwise. What are your thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 So what do you imagine Howland Reed exists in this universe for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banner Without Brothers Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I hope his parentage is one of those things that never gets revealed. GRRM has said that a lot of stuff will be left up to the reader in the end and this should be one. I can remember a time when R+L=J was just another theory whereas now it's become the dominant paradigm and accepted as truth even though we've had no more information than we did. I would be happy if the answer was a simple as the most straightforward explanation we received when Davos was stuck in the Sisters; That Ned fathered a bastard named Jon on a fisherwoman that took him back North. I don't feel it adds anything to Jon's character to make all that he's achieved in spite of being a bastard be for essentially nothing because he would have been special anyway no matter what he did. I like that he's sort of earned his position, for me it's one of his redeeming qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Banner Without Brothers said: I would be happy if the answer was a simple as the most straightforward explanation we received when Davos was stuck in the Sisters; That Ned fathered a bastard named Jon on a fisherwoman that took him back North. Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 @StubbyAnother RLJ thread? Why not take this discussion to the pinned thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Howland Reed is useful for a great deal more than revealing Jon's parentage. He is also tied into the Robb's will plot and is one of the few known pupils of the Green Men on the Isle of Faces. Together with his cool moving castle, skills as a hunter and skill using crannogmen magic, he's someone we are waiting for in anticipation. Plus, he's Jojen and Meera's dad, who sent them to Winterfell to renew their pledge their allegiance to House Stark and to aid Bran with his dreams etc... As for how they'll work it in, the only reason Howland would leave Greywater Watch is if he was specifically summoned to Winterfell by a Stark or, possibly, Jon Snow if he survives and goes to try and save (f)Arya. Since his people have been engaged with all-out warfare with the Ironmen, the Freys of the Crossing and any Southron threat for a while, it seems he is still keeping to the last known orders Robb gave to him - to hold the Neck. He'd need new orders from the Lord or Lady of Winterfell before he'll get off his "default settings", as it were. The more likely scenario would be if one of the POV characters went to him. By far, the most likely would be Bran, as he is already travelling with Howl's kids. If he does leave BR's cave, then the next logical step for him would be to go to the Isle of Faces, a place notoriously difficult to get to and where we know Howl was a student for a year. Seems logical that if they head for the Isle of Faces they will go via Greywater Watch and check in with Howland. (Meera seemed to indicate that Jojen might be due to die at GWW, if he didn't get made into paste, that is). Either way, it is possible he'll tell Bran the truth though there might be a chance for him to tell Jon directly one day. It depends where Jon's plot goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 9 hours ago, Banner Without Brothers said: I hope his parentage is one of those things that never gets revealed. GRRM has said that a lot of stuff will be left up to the reader in the end and this should be one. I can remember a time when R+L=J was just another theory whereas now it's become the dominant paradigm and accepted as truth even though we've had no more information than we did. I would be happy if the answer was a simple as the most straightforward explanation we received when Davos was stuck in the Sisters; That Ned fathered a bastard named Jon on a fisherwoman that took him back North. I don't feel it adds anything to Jon's character to make all that he's achieved in spite of being a bastard be for essentially nothing because he would have been special anyway no matter what he did. I like that he's sort of earned his position, for me it's one of his redeeming qualities. But that's not Ned's way, to go whoring. He's not Theon, who would bed a girl on sight. If it's not R+L=J, I'll wager he's the son of Ned and a highborn lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 There is a theory - with a long and lovely essay presenting it - that the "fisherman's daughter" actually was Ashara Dayne in disguise. It is online somewhere ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banner Without Brothers Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said: But that's not Ned's way, to go whoring. He's not Theon, who would bed a girl on sight. If it's not R+L=J, I'll wager he's the son of Ned and a highborn lady. Well I'm not putting forward a serious argument that that is the case. However, he's on his way back from war and takes a little bit of comfort from an attractive washerwoman, who knows, he's not Baelor the blessed, not saying it is the case but he's a young man it might be out of character but people do stuff out of character all the time. Anyway just saying it's a possibility that gets almost completely overlooked even though it's the most definitively stated. And that I'd be happy with it never being revealed. I certainly don't want to derail the OP's thread which is about something totally different. Sorry OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Howland Reed is the most obvious source, but not the only one. I think that, if he is alive, Benjen Stark knows who Jon's mother is. In any case, I would bet that he knows a lot more than he has let on. Ashara Dayne (if alive) would also be a potential source of information. Crackpot: If there was a maester present at all, there could potentially be a record hidden at the Citadel. Sam could be the one to find out. Whether he decides to disclose it would be another matter. Yet another secret to keep, perhaps.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Wylla should know. I've been thinking for a long while that she is Garin's mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Nevets said: Crackpot: If there was a maester present at all, there could potentially be a record hidden at the Citadel. Sam could be the one to find out. Whether he decides to disclose it would be another matter. Yet another secret to keep, perhaps.? I've always wondered about that. It seems odd Rhaegar would have left Lyanna without a Maester but I also doubt there is any paper trail proving Jon was born. Even if he was true-born. If he went to the trouble of hiding Jon's true parentage by passing him off as his own son, there probably wasn't a paper trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livesundersink Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 13 hours ago, Banner Without Brothers said: Well I'm not putting forward a serious argument that that is the case. However, he's on his way back from war and takes a little bit of comfort from an attractive washerwoman, who knows, he's not Baelor the blessed, not saying it is the case but he's a young man it might be out of character but people do stuff out of character all the time. Anyway just saying it's a possibility that gets almost completely overlooked even though it's the most definitively stated. And that I'd be happy with it never being revealed. I certainly don't want to derail the OP's thread which is about something totally different. Sorry OP. It's alright, i'm not bothered. The Fishermans daughter theory just doesn't hold much weight with me simply because it is only mentioned in one chapter i believe and it's mentioned by a character that we haven't seen before. Also these events happened before Ned and Cat's marriage which is a key point in their relationship, Cat believes that Ned cheated on her and therefore distrusts Jon immensely, if Jon was conceived before the marriage then why would Ned not tell her this? and why would he never name his mother if she was merely the daughter of a simple fisherman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitterblooms Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Did Ned tell a Jon "next time we meet" in the books or the show? (sorry, sometimes I can't separate Ned from Sean Bean!) If it's in the books as well, I'm suspicious that the reveal will be to different characters in different ways: Howland Reed to some, Ned in a dream (through Bran's influence?) to Jon. Off to check GOT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bitterblooms said: Did Ned tell a Jon "next time we meet" in the books or the show? (sorry, sometimes I can't separate Ned from Sean Bean!) If it's in the books as well, I'm suspicious that the reveal will be to different characters in different ways: Howland Reed to some, Ned in a dream (through Bran's influence?) to Jon. Off to check GOT... I don't think so. I think Ned has already left for King's Landing by the time Jon leaves for the Wall. I don't have the book to check, though. 2 hours ago, Livesundersink said: It's alright, i'm not bothered. The Fishermans daughter theory just doesn't hold much weight with me simply because it is only mentioned in one chapter i believe and it's mentioned by a character that we haven't seen before. Also these events happened before Ned and Cat's marriage which is a key point in their relationship, Cat believes that Ned cheated on her and therefore distrusts Jon immensely, if Jon was conceived before the marriage then why would Ned not tell her this? and why would he never name his mother if she was merely the daughter of a simple fisherman? Indeed. It is unlikely that Jon is much different in age to Robb, whether he was the Tower of Joy baby or not (let's assume he was) because he was already set up at Winterfell with a wetnurse when Cat got there. Given how quickly babies grow at that age, there is no way Ned could have passed off an older child as a baby not yet weaning. There are a lot of rumours about Jon's true mother and, odds are on, if it has been suggested in the books so far - it won't be the correct answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 I'm fine with it never revealed. But obvious because he accomplished stuff related to the PtwP. And chosen because of what he did. Not because he is the legitimate heir of the Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Bitterblooms said: Did Ned tell a Jon "next time we meet" in the books or the show? (sorry, sometimes I can't separate Ned from Sean Bean!) If it's in the books as well, I'm suspicious that the reveal will be to different characters in different ways: Howland Reed to some, Ned in a dream (through Bran's influence?) to Jon. Off to check GOT... That was a show thing only. Jon and Ned don't talk before Ned leaves for KL. ETA - I should say that whatever interaction they had happened off page. And Jon decides that next time he sees Ned, he'll ask him about his mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faera Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 42 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said: I'm fine with it never revealed. But obvious because he accomplished stuff related to the PtwP. And chosen because of what he did. Not because he is the legitimate heir of the Targaryens. I think it will come out though I'd be fine if Jon himself never found out, as odd as that would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseKerkhof Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 It is also speculated that Rhaegar's Harp is in Lyanna's tomb, so if you put 2 and 2 together.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 It will be Sansa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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