The secret code in numbers?

[Seams]

I realize that there are thousands of references to numbers throughout the books. I am interested in whether there might be a pattern where people are equated with numbers. In other words, the phrases that say, "This person IS four" or "You ARE six." If there is a pattern, what does it mean? 

"Well, no doubt the Starks have been terribly good to you. I'm certain Lady Stark treats you as if you were one of her own. And your brother Robb, he's always been kind, and why not? He gets Winterfell and you get the Wall. And your father … he must have good reasons for packing you off to the Night's Watch …" (AGoT, Tyrion II)

Anger flashed across Father's face. "Enough, Sansa. More of that and you will change my mind. I am weary unto death of this endless war you two are fighting. You are sisters. I expect you to behave like sisters, is that understood?" (AGoT, Arya II)

There are a couple of references to the two sisters, their two female direwolf pups, and that they are two years apart.

"Is he afraid?" Ned asked.

"A little," she admitted. "He is only three."

Ned frowned. "He must learn to face his fears. He will not be three forever. And winter is coming." (AGoT, Catelyn I)

But there seems to be a two-three combination that might be significant:

"There are five pups," he told Father. "Three male, two female."

"What of it, Jon?"

"You have five trueborn children," Jon said. "Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord." (AGoT, Bran I)

Robb looked at her as if she'd gone mad. "Mother, stay here. I'll come back as soon as the fire's out." He ran then. She heard him shout to the guards outside the room, heard them descending together in a wild rush, taking the stairs two and three at a time. (AGoT, Catelyn III)

Ned was correct that Rickon would not be three forever:

"I'm four now," Rickon said. He was peeking through the lens tube at the gargoyles on the First Keep. (AGoT, Bran VII)

"I want one too," Rickon said. "I want four. I'm four." (AGoT, Bran VII)

Of course, there is a significant book called Lives of Four Kings, and we have the War of the Five Kings. There could be a lot of significant numbers, strings of numbers, equations. There might not be a single set of symbols. I am interested to find that a lot of phrases equating a person with a number, though, occur in early Stark POVs or refer to STarks: "I am ___" or "You are ___" or "He is ____" with a number in the blank.

Ned looked down the council table and wondered which were the flatterers and which the fools. He thought he knew already. "We are but five," he pointed out. (AGoT, Eddard IV)

"The wife has lost the husband," he said carefully. "Perhaps the mother feared to lose the son. The boy is very young."

"Six, and sickly, and Lord of the Eyrie, gods have mercy," the king swore. (AGoT, Eddard I)

 

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. "Yes," she said, "but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven." (AGoT, Catelyn II)

 

Renly had been a boy of eight when Robert won the throne, but he had grown into a man so like his brother that Ned found it disconcerting.  (AGoT, Eddard IV)

 

"I'm eight now!" Bran said. "Eight isn't so much younger than fifteen, and I'm the heir to Winterfell, after you." (AGoT, Bran V)

 

She watched her little brother whack at Tommen. "I could do just as good as Bran," she said. "He's only seven. I'm nine." (AGoT, Arya I)

 

Except this one also seems significant to me, and it doesn't involve a literal Stark:

 

She laughed. "That's fair. I liked you better when you were nine." (ACoK, Theon II)

 

There is a lot of talk in that chapter about Theon having turned into a lordling from the green lands, and we know that he will later admit to Barbry Dunstan that he wished he were a Stark. So maybe he is part of the "counting Starks" pattern.

 

On the other hand, Is there something significant about the number nine that we start to see other families identifying with the number? Or am I just being too selective in my searches?

 

"I was the oldest," the prince said, "and yet I am the last. After Mors and Olyvar died in their cradles, I gave up hope of brothers. I was nine when Elia came, a squire in service at Salt Shore. When the raven arrived with word that my mother had been brought to bed a month too soon, I was old enough to understand that meant the child would not live. (AFfC, The Captain of the Guards)

 

She should be more frightened herself, she knew. She was only ten, a skinny girl on a stolen horse with a dark forest ahead of her and men behind who would gladly cut off her feet. (AsoS, Arya I)

 

"I'm not a squirrel," she said. "I'll almost be a woman soon. I'll be one-and-ten." (ASoS, Arya IV)

Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. (AGoT, Jon I)

"Gods, Catelyn, Sansa is only eleven," Ned said. "And Joffrey … Joffrey is …"

She finished for him. "… crown prince, and heir to the Iron Throne. And I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon." (AGoT, Catelyn II)

 

Tyrion sighed. "You are remarkably polite for a bastard, Snow. What you see is a dwarf. You are what, twelve?"

"Fourteen," the boy said. (AGoT, Tyrion II)

 

When we get to twelve, there is a series of squires and killers who are all twelve:

 

Clegane glanced at Arya. "You going to make her a knight too, Dondarrion? The first eight-year-old girl knight?"

"I'm twelve," Arya lied loudly, "and I could be a knight if I wanted. I could have killed you too, only Lem took my knife." (ASoS, Arya VII)

Within he found a boy of twelve laying out clothing on the bed; his squire, such that he was. Podrick Payne was so shy he was furtive. (ACoK, Tyrion III)

 

Ser Rodrik commanded the man to set aside a fifth, and questioned the steward closely about Lord Hornwood's bastard, the boy Larence Snow. In the north, all highborn bastards took the surname Snow. This lad was near twelve, and the steward praised his wits and courage. (ACoK, Bran II)

 

Most squires have loose tongues, but Wex had been born dumb . . . which didn't seem to keep him from being clever as any twelve-year-old had a right to be.  (ACoK, Theon II)

 

"I killed my first man at twelve. I've lost count of how many I've killed since then. . . ." (ACoK, Sansa IV)

"I never learned the lance, but I could beat you with a sword," said Arya. "Have you killed anyone?"

That seemed to startle him. "I'm only twelve."

I killed a boy when I was eight, Arya almost said, but she thought she'd better not. "You've been in battles, though." (ASoS, Arya VIII)

He felt as if he were twelve again, cartwheeling across the supper table in Casterly Rock's great hall. (ADwD, Tyrion IX)

Of course, much of the string of twelve-year-old squires could be explained if squires are usually put to work at the age of twelve. But why keep mentioning it? Are the specific ages important for some reason? Why not just say, "A young boy" or ". . . of an age to become a squire."

The numbers keep going, of course - Brienne seeking a maid of three-and-ten, Jon or Robb reaching sixteen (and a man grown), etc. Maybe it's just normal exposition to identify a person with their age. But maybe it's a series of clues.

 

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

A lot of the time that number is the character's age.

We use this code in real life too. Certain ages, or numbers, give individuals access to more things, such as being allowed to drink alcoholic beverages in public or drive more dangerous vehicles.

[300 H&H Magnum]

There are no secret numerical codes but certain important people have titles that contain numbers.  Most prominent of course are the following:

1. The three-headed dragon, which is Dany.
2. The three-eyed raven, which is Bran.
3. The Child of Three, which is Dany.

[LynnS]

7 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

The three-eyed raven, which is Bran.

When I first saw the HBO show call Bloodraven the three-eyed raven; I did a search of the text and Martin never uses three-eyed raven.  It's the thee-eyed crow that Bran is looking for and that I believe is Jon.

8 hours ago, Seams said:

Of course, much of the string of twelve-year-old squires could be explained if squires are usually put to work at the age of twelve. But why keep mentioning it? Are the specific ages important for some reason? Why not just say, "A young boy" or ". . . of an age to become a squire."

The numbers keep going, of course - Brienne seeking a maid of three-and-ten, Jon or Robb reaching sixteen (and a man grown), etc. Maybe it's just normal exposition to identify a person with their age. But maybe it's a series of clues.

It's an interesting inquiry, I don't have anything to add except that 'the one' is important:

- the one whose name may not, cannot, must not be spoken

- Sam to Bran at the Black Gate:  Are you the one?

[SirArthur]

If you remove all the age mentions you come to much more interesting number patterns. 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, SirArthur said:

If you remove all the age mentions you come to much more interesting number patterns. 

Yes I think there is something to the grouping of things rather than specific to age.  The obvious example are all the ear worms:

Jon - eye, eye, eye

Sam - the Wall, the Wall, the Wall

Sansa - blood, blood, blood

Mormont's Raven - too many to mention

I suspect that most POV characters will have some kind of triplet like the above; the meaning of which is specific to the character in some way.

Then there is the unknown identity of the one.  Mel and Moqorro express it three different ways.  I'm not sure that the one is all the same person in the present; possibly in the past.

- the one whose name may not be spoken - this implies permission is necessary - Sam takes an oath not to speak Bran's name

- the one whose name cannot be spoken -  this implies mutism - Euron removes the tongues of wizards and women, his ship is the Silence

- the one whose name must not be spoken - this implies that there are consequences to speaking the name and/or that keeping the name secret is necessary - Jon's identity for example or the faceless men who have no identity, a name or a face.

Other groupings of six and nine:

- six: direwolves, white walkers, stark children, children of the forest

- nine swords on the crown of the kings of winter, nine weirwood trees at the grove used by the Night's Watch

This is the kind of stuff that I ponder when it comes to numbers.

 

[zandru]

If you string together all the numbers in the text in the order they were mentioned, you get the 1001st and onward decimals of pi.

This indicates that all of life is but a circle.

[Seams]

39 minutes ago, zandru said:

If you string together all the numbers in the text in the order they were mentioned, you get the 1001st and onward decimals of pi.

This indicates that all of life is but a circle.

Seriously? Citations?

[SirArthur]

4 minutes ago, Seams said:

Seriously? Citations?

He is just mocking us.

[Reekazoid]

23 hours ago, Seams said:

I realize that there are thousands of references to numbers throughout the books. I am interested in whether there might be a pattern where people are equated with numbers. In other words, the phrases that say, "This person IS four" or "You ARE six." If there is a pattern, what does it mean? 

"Well, no doubt the Starks have been terribly good to you. I'm certain Lady Stark treats you as if you were one of her own. And your brother Robb, he's always been kind, and why not? He gets Winterfell and you get the Wall. And your father … he must have good reasons for packing you off to the Night's Watch …" (AGoT, Tyrion II)

Anger flashed across Father's face. "Enough, Sansa. More of that and you will change my mind. I am weary unto death of this endless war you two are fighting. You are sisters. I expect you to behave like sisters, is that understood?" (AGoT, Arya II)

There are a couple of references to the two sisters, their two female direwolf pups, and that they are two years apart.

"Is he afraid?" Ned asked.

"A little," she admitted. "He is only three."

Ned frowned. "He must learn to face his fears. He will not be three forever. And winter is coming." (AGoT, Catelyn I)

But there seems to be a two-three combination that might be significant:

"There are five pups," he told Father. "Three male, two female."

"What of it, Jon?"

"You have five trueborn children," Jon said. "Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord." (AGoT, Bran I)

Robb looked at her as if she'd gone mad. "Mother, stay here. I'll come back as soon as the fire's out." He ran then. She heard him shout to the guards outside the room, heard them descending together in a wild rush, taking the stairs two and three at a time. (AGoT, Catelyn III)

Ned was correct that Rickon would not be three forever:

"I'm four now," Rickon said. He was peeking through the lens tube at the gargoyles on the First Keep. (AGoT, Bran VII)

"I want one too," Rickon said. "I want four. I'm four." (AGoT, Bran VII)

Of course, there is a significant book called Lives of Four Kings, and we have the War of the Five Kings. There could be a lot of significant numbers, strings of numbers, equations. There might not be a single set of symbols. I am interested to find that a lot of phrases equating a person with a number, though, occur in early Stark POVs or refer to STarks: "I am ___" or "You are ___" or "He is ____" with a number in the blank.

Ned looked down the council table and wondered which were the flatterers and which the fools. He thought he knew already. "We are but five," he pointed out. (AGoT, Eddard IV)

"The wife has lost the husband," he said carefully. "Perhaps the mother feared to lose the son. The boy is very young."

"Six, and sickly, and Lord of the Eyrie, gods have mercy," the king swore. (AGoT, Eddard I)

 

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. "Yes," she said, "but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven." (AGoT, Catelyn II)

 

Renly had been a boy of eight when Robert won the throne, but he had grown into a man so like his brother that Ned found it disconcerting.  (AGoT, Eddard IV)

 

"I'm eight now!" Bran said. "Eight isn't so much younger than fifteen, and I'm the heir to Winterfell, after you." (AGoT, Bran V)

 

She watched her little brother whack at Tommen. "I could do just as good as Bran," she said. "He's only seven. I'm nine." (AGoT, Arya I)

 

Except this one also seems significant to me, and it doesn't involve a literal Stark:

 

She laughed. "That's fair. I liked you better when you were nine." (ACoK, Theon II)

 

There is a lot of talk in that chapter about Theon having turned into a lordling from the green lands, and we know that he will later admit to Barbry Dunstan that he wished he were a Stark. So maybe he is part of the "counting Starks" pattern.

 

On the other hand, Is there something significant about the number nine that we start to see other families identifying with the number? Or am I just being too selective in my searches?

 

"I was the oldest," the prince said, "and yet I am the last. After Mors and Olyvar died in their cradles, I gave up hope of brothers. I was nine when Elia came, a squire in service at Salt Shore. When the raven arrived with word that my mother had been brought to bed a month too soon, I was old enough to understand that meant the child would not live. (AFfC, The Captain of the Guards)

 

She should be more frightened herself, she knew. She was only ten, a skinny girl on a stolen horse with a dark forest ahead of her and men behind who would gladly cut off her feet. (AsoS, Arya I)

 

"I'm not a squirrel," she said. "I'll almost be a woman soon. I'll be one-and-ten." (ASoS, Arya IV)

Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. (AGoT, Jon I)

"Gods, Catelyn, Sansa is only eleven," Ned said. "And Joffrey … Joffrey is …"

She finished for him. "… crown prince, and heir to the Iron Throne. And I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon." (AGoT, Catelyn II)

 

Tyrion sighed. "You are remarkably polite for a bastard, Snow. What you see is a dwarf. You are what, twelve?"

"Fourteen," the boy said. (AGoT, Tyrion II)

 

When we get to twelve, there is a series of squires and killers who are all twelve:

 

Clegane glanced at Arya. "You going to make her a knight too, Dondarrion? The first eight-year-old girl knight?"

"I'm twelve," Arya lied loudly, "and I could be a knight if I wanted. I could have killed you too, only Lem took my knife." (ASoS, Arya VII)

Within he found a boy of twelve laying out clothing on the bed; his squire, such that he was. Podrick Payne was so shy he was furtive. (ACoK, Tyrion III)

 

Ser Rodrik commanded the man to set aside a fifth, and questioned the steward closely about Lord Hornwood's bastard, the boy Larence Snow. In the north, all highborn bastards took the surname Snow. This lad was near twelve, and the steward praised his wits and courage. (ACoK, Bran II)

 

Most squires have loose tongues, but Wex had been born dumb . . . which didn't seem to keep him from being clever as any twelve-year-old had a right to be.  (ACoK, Theon II)

 

"I killed my first man at twelve. I've lost count of how many I've killed since then. . . ." (ACoK, Sansa IV)

"I never learned the lance, but I could beat you with a sword," said Arya. "Have you killed anyone?"

That seemed to startle him. "I'm only twelve."

I killed a boy when I was eight, Arya almost said, but she thought she'd better not. "You've been in battles, though." (ASoS, Arya VIII)

He felt as if he were twelve again, cartwheeling across the supper table in Casterly Rock's great hall. (ADwD, Tyrion IX)

Of course, much of the string of twelve-year-old squires could be explained if squires are usually put to work at the age of twelve. But why keep mentioning it? Are the specific ages important for some reason? Why not just say, "A young boy" or ". . . of an age to become a squire."

The numbers keep going, of course - Brienne seeking a maid of three-and-ten, Jon or Robb reaching sixteen (and a man grown), etc. Maybe it's just normal exposition to identify a person with their age. But maybe it's a series of clues.

 

Someone get this man a sliding chalkboard, cardigan sweater, printed copies of every ASoIaF book, and some corduroy pants, stat!

I expect to hear you reading these numbers to us over  shortwave radio within the fortnight!

 

 

 

[zandru]

4 hours ago, SirArthur said:

He is just mocking us.

Yes, and I should know better by now. If folks have fun detecting apparent patterns and finding meaning in them, why should I or anyone else object? You might be on to something. Not your fault that I'm still annoyed by all the blathering over pi in "Contact" (although 30+ years of irritation suggests there's something wrong with ME...)

[SirArthur]

12 hours ago, zandru said:

Yes, and I should know better by now. If folks have fun detecting apparent patterns and finding meaning in them, why should I or anyone else object? You might be on to something. Not your fault that I'm still annoyed by all the blathering over pi in "Contact" (although 30+ years of irritation suggests there's something wrong with ME...)

But why the 2nd thousand numbers and not the first thousand ?

[Archmaester_Aemma]

I don't know about all the ages but there are certain numbers that crop up over and over again in a symbolically relevant fashion.

Some are obvious - 3 like the three heads of the dragon of the Targaryens, a likely reference to the three primary dragon meteors resulting from @LmL's hypothesised moon disaster. Similarly with "thousand(s)" of anything.

Similarly, the 12 + 1 pattern is heavily associated with the Last Hero and his twelve companions and there are numerous instances of this in the series (see @LmL's Green Zombies series for the proofs).

7 is heavily ice associated. The Faith of the Seven uses crystal, which is a description applied to both the Wall and to the Others' swords. The Kingsguard have cloaks of snow and scales like hard ice (The Kingbreaker, ADWD) and there are seven of them. There are seven involved in the confrontation in AGOT Prologue: I slice it up as 5 Others, Ser Waymar and Will looming over all, but it could be 5 background Others, the Other Waymar fights and Ser Waymar himself. The Eyrie is made of white and blue marble (ice colours, marble as an icy stone) and has seven towers. The Starks are the family at the heart of the North, with all of their concomitant icy symbolism, and they are a family of seven.

Finally, the last one I have spotted seems to be 9, but I'm not sure what to make of it exactly. There are 9 rivers in the riverlands which is itself a crossing over point and home to the Trident (dropping a 3 reference within it too). Varamyr has 9 deaths - 8 animal ones and his true death (in which he accidentally causes Thistle to look like a weirwood tree). There are 9 sword points to the King of Winters crown, made of iron and bronze to fight against the cold. There's the weirwood grove of nine in which all old gods worshipping black brothers take their vows. And there's the Knight of Ninestars in the Vale and he is specifically described as having icy blue eyes and a beak of a nose. ASOIAF is actually referenced in the literature section of the number 9 for having 9 Westerosi regions (The Seven Kingdoms + Dorne and Crownlands) and the 9 Free Cities. Not entirely sure how to interpret it, but there could be a link there to the Nine Worlds of Norse myth and thus a link to Yggdrasil and thus weirwoods??

There's one specific quote I wanted to address from the quote pool you pulled.

On 09/10/2017 at 2:52 AM, Seams said:

"There are five pups," he told Father. "Three male, two female."

"What of it, Jon?"

"You have five trueborn children," Jon said. "Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord." (AGoT, Bran I)

There is actually a three, two, one counting down pattern here, if you add Ghost. 3 sons are also 3 brothers, potentially linking them to the 3 brothers of the Night's Watch who found the Others in the Prologue of AGOT. I am relatively in favour of this interpretation, as the Prologue is literally the chapter before, and one of those brothers was killed in this very chapter, plus the Starks are heavily linked to the Night's Watch. One of these pups (Grey Wind) is later beheaded for its owner betraying their oath, reminiscent of Gared's beheading for desertion. 

Then there are the two daughters, a potential reference to the two moons that used to be in the sky (if you subscribe to @LmL's moon destruction theory anyway). This also matches with one moon being fiery (Sansa with her kissed by fire hair) and icy (Arya, who is likened to Lyanna numerous times, with Lyanna serving as an ice moon figure). Sansa's wolf is dead, in accordance with the fire moon being the moon that was destroyed to cause the Long Night (per @LmL's theory).

And finally there is the One, Ghost. Jon is equated with being the wanderer or the Stranger on numerous occasions and seems likely to be (one of) the Azor Ahai Reborn figure(s). 

What this sequence means, I'm less sure of. Is it just telling us about key players in the War for the Dawn?

This scene also has an obscure 9 reference, in that 9 people are gathered around the scene: Bran, Robb, Jon, Theon, Jory Cassell, Ned, Hullen, Harwin and another man (who remains unnamed). Not sure if that is at all relevant, but hey ho.

[Luddagain]

The ages stuff is just colour so we know how old each child is.

 

However there are significant associations with numbers that seem to link to magic or religion or perhaps invasions

 

Obviously the Targs are linked to 3 - Dragon heads, three original dragons, Dany child of three etc.

 

The 7 is linked to the Andals and to the Kingdoms before the Targs arrived. We hear also of 7 wanderers in the night sky (shades of Roman mythology here)

 

Nine is linked to the North and the first Men and to the King of the North with his 9 swords in his crown. There is a weirwood circle of 9 trees

 

12 is linked to the constellations and may be significant (as in our world 12 (plus 1) is pretty magical still

 

100 is linked to the CoF and the pact with the first men.