Jump to content
Lord Varys

The Book of Swords - The Sons of the Dragon SPOILERS

Recommended Posts

Just now, The hairy bear said:

Why do you claim that Aeron is "not likely a name native to the Iron Born"? I think it's cheating a little bit to claim that the name is not likely Iron Born just because it doesn't fit your theory, instead of opening the door to the possibility that your theory is not universal since there are names that do not fit.

In fact, Aeron would likely be pronounced in a very similar way than "Iron", which would support exactly the opposite: that it's a name native from the Iron Islands.

With the information that we information that we have at hand, it's far most likely that the "ae" diphthong is just a remnant from older times (we see it in names in "old Valyrian", the ancient maesters, presumably ancient houses, potential old spellings for iron, etc.) that just an indicative of the Valyrian language.

Huh. That makes no sense. Sorry.

It doesnt matter if Aeron comes from and older Aryn name or something from the Iron Islands. The Og name and cultural way for them to have spelled it then would have been Aryn or what ever example you want to use. 

There has been cultural mixing since so a first name is likely to be borrowed in this case. Where as their House name is likely to be the way it always was. So house Danye could theoretically have a Aegon Dayne in their house currently, but not in the Dawn days that they date back to.

And what theory? I dont have a theory so no need to be snarky just cause i dont agree. I dont have a theory yet, im just flushing out information.

Any name listed from the Age of Heroes and Dawn Age that are first names may be trusted as that may have been before any cultural mixing, but that's' debatable

But you already have your mind made up that Grrm was fibbing or overly confident or idk what cause you couldn't figure out what he meant. So im not sure much of what i say will matter. I get the feeling this is more of a one way conversation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

In fact, Aeron would likely be pronounced in a very similar way than "Iron", which would support exactly the opposite: that it's a name native from the Iron Islands.

Oh wait, you think Aeron is pronounced like Iron on the Iron Islands..... but spell Iron as iron.... So why adopt the Ae spelling if its a nod to your ancestral origins. Why not keep the way it was?

Iron huh? That's interesting. I dont believe we have any examples of Ae sounding like that in the books. Wouldn't make any sense either. The I sound in Iron is typically made with an I, Y, or Ai. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

In fact, Aeron would likely be pronounced in a very similar way than "Iron", which would support exactly the opposite: that it's a name native from the Iron Islands.

IIRC, at Balticon George pronounced "Aeron" as a homophone of the given name "Aaron" (and he rhymed "Balon" with talon, also IIRC). I don't think George cares all that much about pronunciation in general, however (SSM).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

There has been cultural mixing since so a first name is likely to be borrowed in this case.

I don't think it can be said that since the conquest there has been cultural mixing in Westeros between the Valyrian culture and the local one. The Valyrians invaders numbered a couple of thousand at most, while the Westerosi population were in the eight digits. No significant number of cross-marriages took place, and the customs and traditions of the Seven Kingdoms remained unchanged. In fact, the Targaryens even refused their own legacies and adopted the Westerosi faith, language and knightly tradition. The only thing that they maintained from their culture was the names.

It is true that the Targaryens became part of Westeros history after the Conquest. For this reason, many nobles and commoners could name their children Alysanne, Aegon or Baelor, but only to honor their past kings, not because they were embracing the Valyrian heritage. For this reason, I doubt that the name Aeron is Valyrian in origin: no rellevant Westerosi Targaryen ever bore that name.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Where as their House name is likely to be the way it always was.

Steward/Stuard, Plantegenest/Plantagenet, Westseaxna/Wessex, Tudur/Tudor, Habsburg/ Hapsburg, Lucilinburhuc/Luxembourg,..

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

So house Dayne could theoretically have a Aegon Dayne in their house currently, but not in the Dawn days that they date back to.

I agree with that. My point is that if there was an Aegimund or an Taeril in house Dayne now, we shouldn't conclude that those names are Valyrian in origin.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

But you already have your mind made up that Grrm was fibbing or overly confident or idk what cause you couldn't figure out what he meant. So im not sure much of what i say will matter. I get the feeling this is more of a one way conversation

I'm just saying that there are far too examples of the "ae" in non-Valyrian names that the idea that it's a particle exclusive to the Valyrian language seems an unlikely preposition.

We can play at the game of imagining a Valyrian connection to all of those names. Baelish's ancestors could be Valyrian slaves that fled to Braavos, house Paege could descended from Valyrian merchants that settled in the Riverlands, Aeron could be named this way to honor a famous Valyrian pirate of old known around the world, and so on. It can be a fun, sure, but we should be intellectually honest about it and admit that it doesn't seem likely.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Iron huh? That's interesting. I dont believe we have any examples of Ae sounding like that in the books. Wouldn't make any sense either. The I sound in Iron is typically made with an I, Y, or Ai. 

Martin intends to have the sound "ae" sound as in the English "aisle" ['eɪ ].

Edited by The hairy bear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wouldn't be surprising to find Valyrians, or Valyrian or Valyrian "looking" names. in Westeros before the Targaryen conquest. The Targaryens were hardly the only Valyrians or descendants of Valyrians.

The Valyrian Freehold supposedly existed for thousands of years, and the Free Cities across that they established or Valyrianized across the sea from Westeros existed for hundreds or thousands of years.

The glass candles at the Citadel are said to have been brought to Oldtown from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom. Maesters and Archmaesters are claimed to have often traveled to the Freehold before the Doom.

The Valyrians established themselves on Dragonstone two centuries before the Doom, the Targaryens twelve years before the Doom, and the Velaryons on Driftmark even before the Targaryens.

The Tarly Valyrian steel sword Heartsbane is said to have been passed down from father to son near five hundred years.
The Mormont Valyrian steel sword Longclaw is said to have been in their family for five centuries.
The Stark Valyrian steel sword Ice is said to be four hundred years old.
The Lannister Valyrian steel sword Brightroar is said to have come into their possession in the century before the Doom.

So it is not as though there was absolutely no contact between Valyrians and Westerosi, whether or not Valyrians tended to be rare on mainland Westeros prior to the Targaryens.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Martin intends to have the sound "ae" sound as in the English "aisle" ['eɪ ]

Working atm so ill have to digest the respond more in a lil while boss but can you provide a reference for this by chance? That would be really interesting! Maybe through mistake but i just assumed Aegon was pronounce like Day - gone but minus the D. I know he pronounced Targareyen as Are on both first and second syllables, but didn't know that. I always hear him refer to Aegon as i showed (D)ay-gone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Martin intends to have the sound "ae" sound as in the English "aisle" ['eɪ ].

I think you mixed it up. In the SSM you posted Martin supposedly confirms that the "ae" is pronounced like "ay," and when asked if, for example, it was more like "may-ster" or "my-ster" Martin confirmed "may-ster." If it was like the sound in "aisle" it would be more like "my-ster." The "ae," then, is likely to be pronounced closer to the "ay" in Dayne, or "ey" in Reyne. The nickname Egg makes sense coming from an Aegon pronounced with the "may" sound, but not from an Aegon pronounced with the "my" sound.

Edited by Bael's Bastard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I don't think it can be said that since the conquest there has been cultural mixing in Westeros between the Valyrian culture and the local one

Westerosi houses adopting Targaryen first names would be one form of cultural mixing. Same as Jalapeno has entered the english language. Or Mansion. 

35 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Steward/Stuard, Plantegenest/Plantagenet, Westseaxna/Wessex, Tudur/Tudor, Habsburg/ Hapsburg, Lucilinburhuc/Luxembourg,..

Not really applicable. Your talking real world, and England no less. Where there was a tonnnnn of cultural mixing. In many waves no less. And GRRM ins't a linguist, i dont expect him to be that thorough. 

 

37 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I agree with that. My point is that if there was an Aegimund or an Taeril in house Dayne now, we shouldn't conclude that those names are Valyrian in origin.

Now if Ae is phonetically sounded the same as ice, then sure. Or if there were examples in those houses with clear nods to the house names like how you mention Taeril to Tyrell. In fact we see the opposite with Sarra or Serra Frey - Saera Targaryen. Sarra or Serra at the least likely sounding as air, not are. Same likely for Saera. Just how i've taken it though.

 

41 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I'm just saying that there are far too examples of the "ae" in non-Valyrian names that the idea that it's a particle exclusive to the Valyrian language seems an unlikely preposition.

We can play at the game of imagining a Valyrian connection to all of those names. Baelish's ancestors could be Valyrian slaves that fled to Braavos, house Paege could descended from Valyrian merchants that settled in the Riverlands, Aeron could be named this way to honor a famous Valyrian pirate of old known around the world, and so on. It can be a fun, sure, but we should be intellectually honest about it and admit that it doesn't seem likely.

Ill have to get back to you on Paege and the rest of this, as id have to look them up and consider it. But yes, this is more the game id rather play haha Totally bring up counter points to help the cause, but help to by fleshing out what may actually be. Helps keep the conversation going and the rabbit hole deepening in the right way. Specially since this isn't a theory, so there's nothing to prove by just bashing everything and walking out with out any constructive input. (Well, technically thats a different thread. This was actually just a question for Elio, on anything he may be at freedom to talk about, if he even feels like answering) :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

It wouldn't be surprising to find Valyrians, or Valyrian or Valyrian "looking" names. in Westeros before the Targaryen conquest. The Targaryens were hardly the only Valyrians or descendants of Valyrians.

The Valyrian Freehold supposedly existed for thousands of years, and the Free Cities across that they established or Valyrianized across the sea from Westeros existed for hundreds or thousands of years.

The glass candles at the Citadel are said to have been brought to Oldtown from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom. Maesters and Archmaesters are claimed to have often traveled to the Freehold before the Doom.

The Valyrians established themselves on Dragonstone two centuries before the Doom, the Targaryens twelve years before the Doom, and the Velaryons on Driftmark even before the Targaryens.

The Tarly Valyrian steel sword Heartsbane is said to have been passed down from father to son near five hundred years.
The Mormont Valyrian steel sword Longclaw is said to have been in their family for five centuries.
The Stark Valyrian steel sword Ice is said to be four hundred years old.
The Lannister Valyrian steel sword Brightroar is said to have come into their possession in the century before the Doom.

So it is not as though there was absolutely no contact between Valyrians and Westerosi, whether or not Valyrians tended to be rare on mainland Westeros prior to the Targaryens.
 

This is true in concept, but we're specifically told that the Valyrians shunned Westeros till taking Dragonstone. 
 

Though we do hear about Maesters going to Valyria seeking answers to questions.

And all the rest you mentioned is all after Valyria took Dragonstone, which they couldn't do with the Andals and Rhoynar in their way. Daeryssa and possibly Bael (If ever real) are from the Age of Heroes. Then some of the houses listed are from maybe Andal times, but should be before the Valyrians.

Btw, it seems odd to me that Martin would tell people to get off the goose chase of Hair and eye colors, just to set them on another pointless goose chase. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@AlaskanSandman

@Bael's Bastard

I may be confusing myself a little here. I'm not an English native speaker, and to me aisle and day do not sound that different (something like /'eɪ/ in both cases). You can hear how George pronounces it himself here (around 3:20), and judge yourselves. :)

I'll digress now: the diphthong "ae" was frequent in classical Latin (Aether, Aesquilus, Encyclopaedia ...). It was often written as æ, and has progressively evolved as a monophthong in most modern languages. So in Westeros, the natural evolution of the language (specially when used by speakers of the common tongue) would be to end pronouncing it as a single vowel. The fact that Aegon V's nickname was Egg would support that that's the fact, although in the video I posted above Martin clearly pronounces the second vowel (and of course, it's very unlikely that Martin even cares about all that).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

@AlaskanSandman

@Bael's Bastard

I may be confusing myself a little here. I'm not an English native speaker, and to me aisle and day do not sound that different (something like /'eɪ/ in both cases). You can hear how George pronounces it himself here (around 3:20), and judge yourselves. :)

I'll digress now: the diphthong "ae" was frequent in classical Latin (Aether, Aesquilus, Encyclopaedia ...). It was often written as æ, and has progressively evolved as a monophthong in most modern languages. So in Westeros, the natural evolution of the language (specially when used by speakers of the common tongue) would be to end pronouncing it as a single vowel. The fact that Aegon V's nickname was Egg would support that that's the fact, although in the video I posted above Martin clearly pronounces the second vowel (and of course, it's very unlikely that Martin even cares about all that).

 

 

So, what do you think Martin meant by the comment on names? Seems odd to steer fans away from one wild goose chase just to set them on another.

Ps. and all good, i suspected we came from different areas :) Im in the U.s. so the way i understand it Aegon would sound like Gaelic but pov matters eh 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AlaskanSandman said:

This is true in concept, but we're specifically told that the Valyrians shunned Westeros till taking Dragonstone. 
 

Though we do hear about Maesters going to Valyria seeking answers to questions.

And all the rest you mentioned is all after Valyria took Dragonstone, which they couldn't do with the Andals and Rhoynar in their way. Daeryssa and possibly Bael (If ever real) are from the Age of Heroes. Then some of the houses listed are from maybe Andal times, but should be before the Valyrians.

Btw, it seems odd to me that Martin would tell people to get off the goose chase of Hair and eye colors, just to set them on another pointless goose chase. 

I think it is a little more complicated than that. As far as Tyrion knows, the Valyrian Freehold's grasp never reached the mainland of Westeros. But Archmaester Perestan speculated that the Valyrians had reached as far as Oldtown in ancient times, but experienced something that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter.

Maester Yandel goes so far as to say that most maester accept the common wisdom that declares the great square fortress of black stone that serves as the foundation of the Hightower was of Valyrian construction, and goes on about how this suggests a Valyrian presence thousands of years before their outpost on Dragonstone.

Of course, he also mentions the arguments put forth that the fortress is not Valyrian at all, and this is entirely possible. But the point is that it isn't taken for granted that Valyrians never stepped foot on mainland Westeros before establishing Dragonstone. And even if the dragonlords themselves came to avoid the mainland for whatever reason, that does not preclude other people of Valyrian descent or with Valyrian names making their way to different parts of Westeros over the millennia.

"The Freehold's grasp had reached as far as Dragonstone, but never to the mainland of Westeros itself." (ADWD: Tyrion II)

"The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. Archmaester Perestan has put forward a different, more plausible speculation, suggesting that the Valyrians had in ancient days reached as far as Oldtown but suffered some great reverse or tragedy there that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter." (TWOIAF: The Westerlands)

"Even more enigmatic to scholars and historians is the great square fortress of black stone that dominates that isle. For most of recorded history, this monumental edifice has served as the foundation and lowest level of the Hightower, yet we know for a certainty that it predates the upper levels of the tower by thousands of years.

Who built it? When? Why? Most maesters accept the common wisdom that declares it to be of Valyrian construction, for its massive walls and labyrinthine interiors are all of solid rock, with no hint of joins or mortar, no chisel marks of any kind, a type of construction that is seen elsewhere, most notably in the dragonroads of the Freehold of Valyria, and the Black Walls that protect the heart of Old Volantis. The dragonlords of Valryia, as is well-known, possessed the art of turning stone to liquid with dragonflame, shaping it as they would, then fusing it harder than iron, steel, or granite.

If indeed this first fortress is Valyrian, it suggests that the dragonlords came to Westeros thousands of years before they carved out their outpost on Dragonstone, long before the coming of the Andals, or even the First Men. If so, did they come seeking trade? Were they slavers, mayhaps seeking after giants? Did they seek to learn the magic of the children of the forest, with their greenseers and their weirwoods? Or was there some darker purpose?

Such questions abound even to this day. Before the Doom of Valyria, maesters and archmaesters oft traveled to the Freehold in search of answers, but none were ever found. Septon Barth's claim that the Valyrians came to Westeros because their priests prophesied that the Doom of Man would come out of the land beyond the narrow sea can safely be dismissed as nonsense, as can many of Barth's queerer beliefs and suppositions.

More troubling, and more worthy of consideration, are the arguments put forth by those who claim that the first fortress is not Valyrian at all.
" (TWOIAF: The Reach: Oldtown)

I don't think Martin is sending anyone on goose chases with the names. I think he generally intends the different types of surnames to indicate the ethnic groups they originated with:

"“I also wanted to show the ethnic groups… I have successive waves of invasion that have hit Westeros in this backstory, if you read its history… They started out with the First Men, and the First Men tend to have very simple, descriptive names, like Stark or Strong or Mudd… where they’re named after something. Then the Andals come in, and their names are a little more elaborate, and they don’t tend to be named after things. So like Lannister, or Arryn… these are Andal names. And then of course you get the Valyrians and the Targaryens coming in, who have the very exotic names with all the "ae"s and the "y"s and the odd spellings like Daenerys Targaryen…”"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

@AlaskanSandman

@Bael's Bastard

I may be confusing myself a little here. I'm not an English native speaker, and to me aisle and day do not sound that different (something like /'eɪ/ in both cases). You can hear how George pronounces it himself here (around 3:20), and judge yourselves. :)

I'll digress now: the diphthong "ae" was frequent in classical Latin (Aether, Aesquilus, Encyclopaedia ...). It was often written as æ, and has progressively evolved as a monophthong in most modern languages. So in Westeros, the natural evolution of the language (specially when used by speakers of the common tongue) would be to end pronouncing it as a single vowel. The fact that Aegon V's nickname was Egg would support that that's the fact, although in the video I posted above Martin clearly pronounces the second vowel (and of course, it's very unlikely that Martin even cares about all that).

 

 

Oh and i always took Egg's name to be a reference to his dome head haha being shaved and all looking like an egg 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

@AlaskanSandman

@Bael's Bastard

I may be confusing myself a little here. I'm not an English native speaker, and to me aisle and day do not sound that different (something like /'eɪ/ in both cases). You can hear how George pronounces it himself here (around 3:20), and judge yourselves. :)

I'll digress now: the diphthong "ae" was frequent in classical Latin (Aether, Aesquilus, Encyclopaedia ...). It was often written as æ, and has progressively evolved as a monophthong in most modern languages. So in Westeros, the natural evolution of the language (specially when used by speakers of the common tongue) would be to end pronouncing it as a single vowel. The fact that Aegon V's nickname was Egg would support that that's the fact, although in the video I posted above Martin clearly pronounces the second vowel (and of course, it's very unlikely that Martin even cares about all that).

@The hairy bear

"aisle" tends to be pronounced close to "isle," with more of an "eye" sound than a "may" (as in the month) sound.

Or "aɪ" (PRICE, ride, pie) rather than "eɪ" (FACE, made, fail, vein, pay). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English

Aisle: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aisle
Isle: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/isle

This link might be of help:

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Pronunciation_guide


The "ae" has definitely had very different sounds in different languages. GRRM's usage does not appear to be like either English usages or the Latin usage (as in sigh).

Edited by Bael's Bastard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I think it is a little more complicated than that. As far as Tyrion knows, the Valyrian Freehold's grasp never reached the mainland of Westeros. But Archmaester Perestan speculated that the Valyrians had reached as far as Oldtown in ancient times, but experienced something that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter.

Maester Yandel goes so far as to say that most maester accept the common wisdom that declares the great square fortress of black stone that serves as the foundation of the Hightower was of Valyrian construction, and goes on about how this suggests a Valyrian presence thousands of years before their outpost on Dragonstone.

Of course, he also mentions the arguments put forth that the fortress is not Valyrian at all, and this is entirely possible. But the point is that it isn't taken for granted that Valyrians never stepped foot on mainland Westeros before establishing Dragonstone. And even if the dragonlords themselves came to avoid the mainland for whatever reason, that does not preclude other people of Valyrian descent or with Valyrian names making their way to different parts of Westeros over the millennia.

"The Freehold's grasp had reached as far as Dragonstone, but never to the mainland of Westeros itself." (ADWD: Tyrion II)

"The wealth of the westerlands was matched, in ancient times, with the hunger of the Freehold of Valyria for precious metals, yet there seems no evidence that the dragonlords ever made contact with the lords of the Rock, Casterly or Lannister. Septon Barth speculated on the matter, referring to a Valyrian text that has since been lost, suggesting that the Freehold's sorcerers foretold that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy them. Archmaester Perestan has put forward a different, more plausible speculation, suggesting that the Valyrians had in ancient days reached as far as Oldtown but suffered some great reverse or tragedy there that caused them to shun all of Westeros thereafter." (TWOIAF: The Westerlands)

"Even more enigmatic to scholars and historians is the great square fortress of black stone that dominates that isle. For most of recorded history, this monumental edifice has served as the foundation and lowest level of the Hightower, yet we know for a certainty that it predates the upper levels of the tower by thousands of years.

Who built it? When? Why? Most maesters accept the common wisdom that declares it to be of Valyrian construction, for its massive walls and labyrinthine interiors are all of solid rock, with no hint of joins or mortar, no chisel marks of any kind, a type of construction that is seen elsewhere, most notably in the dragonroads of the Freehold of Valyria, and the Black Walls that protect the heart of Old Volantis. The dragonlords of Valryia, as is well-known, possessed the art of turning stone to liquid with dragonflame, shaping it as they would, then fusing it harder than iron, steel, or granite.

If indeed this first fortress is Valyrian, it suggests that the dragonlords came to Westeros thousands of years before they carved out their outpost on Dragonstone, long before the coming of the Andals, or even the First Men. If so, did they come seeking trade? Were they slavers, mayhaps seeking after giants? Did they seek to learn the magic of the children of the forest, with their greenseers and their weirwoods? Or was there some darker purpose?

Such questions abound even to this day. Before the Doom of Valyria, maesters and archmaesters oft traveled to the Freehold in search of answers, but none were ever found. Septon Barth's claim that the Valyrians came to Westeros because their priests prophesied that the Doom of Man would come out of the land beyond the narrow sea can safely be dismissed as nonsense, as can many of Barth's queerer beliefs and suppositions.

More troubling, and more worthy of consideration, are the arguments put forth by those who claim that the first fortress is not Valyrian at all.
" (TWOIAF: The Reach: Oldtown)

I don't think Martin is sending anyone on goose chases with the names. I think he generally intends the different types of surnames to indicate the ethnic groups they originated with:

"“I also wanted to show the ethnic groups… I have successive waves of invasion that have hit Westeros in this backstory, if you read its history… They started out with the First Men, and the First Men tend to have very simple, descriptive names, like Stark or Strong or Mudd… where they’re named after something. Then the Andals come in, and their names are a little more elaborate, and they don’t tend to be named after things. So like Lannister, or Arryn… these are Andal names. And then of course you get the Valyrians and the Targaryens coming in, who have the very exotic names with all the "ae"s and the "y"s and the odd spellings like Daenerys Targaryen…”"

 

Yea the contradictions from the maesters in TWOIAF really muddled alottttt lol I feel sometimes like its all non sense and theres nothing really to speculate on. Everything is meant to be unresolved and ambiguous, even alot with in the main series.

I mean i wanna believe theres some clever things hidden that he's waiting to drop on us. But most everything is sooooooo rallied against, or just already has barely enough evidence to go on. 

I mean, if not for TWOIAF there is alloootttttt to suggest Bael is from the Targaryen times and a sleeper to reveal in later books. But TWOIAF had to contradict it, and since, Elio lol but going off the main books alone, there was cause. 

I mean, the Green men are a mystery but only cause he teased them to early. Hasn't given us a lick of anythingggggg one way or the other. Not contradicting tales or legends or reports or nothing. 

F/aegon is already generally excepted as fake aegon by most just cause the show cut him. Plus R+L=J is supposed fact now. Like, there is literally next to no mysteries left. What the white walker want? Most think he wont explain the magic behind dragons. We know he wont explain other magic or the gods. Idk. With two books left and no possible mysteries that matter to likely be resolved other than white walkers, im kind of bummed. Even more so that the show will spoil the rest and itll be all over the news and fb and impossible to avoid. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×