Wow, I never noticed that v.16

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Quote

Jhiqui and Irri were of an age with Dany, Dothrakigirls taken as slaves when Drogo destroyed their father's khalasar.

Daenerys III, Game 23

Irri and Jhiqui are sisters!

This has always bothered me. They are never talked about as sisters, yet we have this quote which certainly implies they are sisters. 

We also know that that their body types are not similar.

Dany VI, Dance

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 When Daenerys returned to her pyramid, sore of limb and sick of heart, she found Missandei reading some old scroll whilst Irri and Jhiqui argued about Rakharo. "You are too skinny for him," Jhiqui was saying. "You are almost a boy. Rakharo does not bed with boys. This is known." Irri bristled back. "It is known that you are almost a cow. Rakharo does not bed with cows."

Obviously, two sisters can have different body types, but this quote along with how they are never specifically mentioned as sisters makes me wonder.

Maybe they had the same father, but different mothers?

[Alexis-something-Rose]

56 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Maybe they had the same father, but different mothers?

This might be it. One of the khals at Vaes Dothrak had 4 wives. So there's got to be some sort of hierarchy with the wives and the children. 

Quote

Pycelle pushed himself to his feet. He was clad in a magnificent robe of thick red velvet, with an ermine collar and shiny gold fastenings. (Sansa V, Game 57) 

Pycelle is wearing Lannister colors.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

This has always bothered me. They are never talked about as sisters, yet we have this quote which certainly implies they are sisters. 

We also know that that their body types are not similar.

Dany VI, Dance

Obviously, two sisters can have different body types, but this quote along with how they are never specifically mentioned as sisters makes me wonder.

Maybe they had the same father, but different mothers?

Sounds good to me. And doesn't Daenerys tell us that some khals pass their khaleeses around with their blood riders? If so, they might not be related by blood at all. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 hour ago, Widow's Watch said:

This might be it. One of the khals at Vaes Dothrak had 4 wives. So there's got to be some sort of hierarchy with the wives and the children. 

 

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Sounds good to me. And doesn't Daenerys tell us that some khals pass their khaleeses around with their blood riders? If so, they might not be related by blood at all. 

Both of these make sense.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Daenerys III, Game 23

Irri and Jhiqui are sisters!

I figured that it could also mean that both Irri and Jhiqui were the daughter's of a khal, but two different khal's, both of whom were defeated by Drogo, after which they were both enslaved.

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I figured that it could also mean that both Irri and Jhiqui were the daughter's of a khal, but two different khal's, both of whom were defeated by Drogo, after which they were both enslaved.

The "father's" is singular, so only one papa. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

4 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I figured that it could also mean that both Irri and Jhiqui were the daughter's of a khal, but two different khal's, both of whom were defeated by Drogo, after which they were both enslaved.

If this were the case, wouldn't it be written fathers' and not father's?

I could be wrong. It has been a while since I have looked into writing possessive apostrophes correctly. 

 

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

Ahh. by LM.

[Seams]

Jon had no answer for him. The raven was pecking at an egg, breaking the shell. Pushing his beak through the hole, he pulled out morsels of white and yoke. (AGoT, Jon IX)

The correct spelling should be yolk. Could be just a typo. But it might be an allusion to the white bull symbolism . . .

[Darion Storm]

Mormont’s raven knows how to kill wights.

Quote

“Burn!” the raven cawed. “Burn, burn, burn!”

It isn’t repeating something someone said, it isn’t responding to a fire nearby, it seems to be an instruction. This gives Jon the idea to set the drapes aflame and smother the wight with them.

For me this almost proves that someone is skinchanging into the raven. Everything else can be explained as just convenient parroting or coincidental choice of words, but this is something different. Of all the things it could say it says “Burn”, burn the wight it seems to say, it knows that this is how one kills a wight.

[divica]

37 minutes ago, Darion Storm said:

Mormont’s raven knows how to kill wights.

It isn’t repeating something someone said, it isn’t responding to a fire nearby, it seems to be an instruction. This gives Jon the idea to set the drapes aflame and smother the wight with them.

For me this almost proves that someone is skinchanging into the raven. Everything else can be explained as just convenient parroting or coincidental choice of words, but this is something different. Of all the things it could say it says “Burn”, burn the wight it seems to say, it knows that this is how one kills a wight.

The amount of times the bird says "king" and then "Snow, Snow" or how in ADwD the bird says:

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"Corn," the bird said, and, "King," and, "Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow." That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall.

It gives the idea someone it is trying to say something but can t say the complete mensage. After ADwD I started to think that instead of being controled by someone maybe there is a vestige of a LC from a long time ago which was a warg inside the bird. If bloodraven birds can have presences from god knows when why not the NW raven? Besides if the raven was being controled whoever wanted to get a message across should be powerful enough to have found another way to get to jon after 5 books.

[Corvo the Crow]

Someone may have posted it before, but I have never noticed Vaes Dothrak, Womb of the World is Otuken from real world. Otuken even has womb among it's meanings.

[Corvo the Crow]

Blind Sybassion the Eater of Eyes, a Qartheen who eats eyes so he can gain his sight (which he later does) reminds me of Symeon Star-eyes a blind men from age of heroes who replaced his eyes with sapphires who also saw fighthing hellhounds in his visit to Nightfort.

 

 

[Lady Dacey]

Not sure if this should be here or at the "references and homages" thread, but... as soon as Dany agreed to marry:

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A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VI 

"Blood?" said Dany, horrified. "Is that a jape? No. No, don't tell me, I must see him for myself." She was a young girl, and alone, and young girls can change their minds. "Convene my captains and commanders. Hizdahr, I know you will forgive me."

"Meereen must come first." Hizdahr smiled genially. "We will have other nights. A thousand nights."

The original Arabic title of "Arabian  Nights" is "one thousand and one nights". The protagonist is the bride and queen Shererazade. She is to be executed the night after the wedding but utimately gains a pardon from her husband and gets to live ("I know you will forgive me").

from Wikipedia:

"The earliest forms of Scheherazade's name in Arabic sources include Shirazad (شيرازاد Šīrāzād) in Masudi, and Shahrazad (شهرازاد Šahrāzād) in Ibn al-Nadim, the latter meaning in New Persian "the person whose realm/dominion (شهر šahr) is free (آزادāzād)"."

sound like the breaker of chains? 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

In the Prologue of A Game of Thrones we are introduced to the Others. Waymar Royce battles an Other and becomes the first known victim. Kraznys mo Nakloz becomes Drogon's first victim in Daenarys III, A Storm of Swords. George uses the same phrase in both events.

Then the Plaza of Punishment blew apart into blood and chaos. The Good Masters were shrieking, stumbling, shoving one another aside and tripping over the fringes of their tokars in their haste. Drogon flew almost lazily at Kraznys, black wings beating. As he gave the slaver another taste of fire...

The phrase "almost lazily" stood out to me upon a recent read. This is because George uses a very similar phrase when Waymar is killed back in the Prologue.

Ser Waymar Royce found his fury. "For Robert!" he shouted, and he came up snarling, lifting the frost-covered longsword with both hands and swinging it around in a flat sidearm slash with all his weight behind it. The Other's parry was almost lazy.

This is very interesting because these are the only two instances where George uses either of these phrases in his entire Ice and Fire writings. By now we should realize George uses phrases to direct the reader into a specific direction. I believe he is doing this here. He may want us to relate the two passages. 

There are obvious opposites at work in the two scenes as well. Waymar is killed by the swords of the Others. Kraznys is killed by the sword of Drogon (fire). The moon is present in the night sky during Waymar's death. The sun is flashing during the death of Kraznys. 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

In the Prologue of A Game of Thrones we are introduced to the Others. Waymar Royce battles an Other and becomes the first known victim. Kraznys mo Nakloz becomes Drogon's first victim in Daenarys III, A Storm of Swords. George uses the same phrase in both events.

Then the Plaza of Punishment blew apart into blood and chaos. The Good Masters were shrieking, stumbling, shoving one another aside and tripping over the fringes of their tokars in their haste. Drogon flew almost lazily at Kraznys, black wings beating. As he gave the slaver another taste of fire...

The phrase "almost lazily" stood out to me upon a recent read. This is because George uses a very similar phrase when Waymar is killed back in the Prologue.

Ser Waymar Royce found his fury. "For Robert!" he shouted, and he came up snarling, lifting the frost-covered longsword with both hands and swinging it around in a flat sidearm slash with all his weight behind it. The Other's parry was almost lazy.

This is very interesting because these are the only two instances where George uses either of these phrases in his entire Ice and Fire writings. By now we should realize George uses phrases to direct the reader into a specific direction. I believe he is doing this here. He may want us to relate the two passages. 

There are obvious opposites at work in the two scenes as well. Waymar is killed by the swords of the Others. Kraznys is killed by the sword of Drogon (fire). The moon is present in the night sky during Waymar's death. The sun is flashing during the death of Kraznys. 

Oooh, nice!

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

4 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oooh, nice!

I thought about starting a new thread with it, but wasn't sure if there was enough discussion to warrant a new topic.

I feel like there is something here which relates to some of the things that @LmL talks about in his last two essays, but I can't figure out a way to put these ideas down in an organized manner.

[The Fattest Leech]

10 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I thought about starting a new thread with it, but wasn't sure if there was enough discussion to warrant a new topic.

I feel like there is something here which relates to some of the things that @LmL talks about in his last two essays, but I can't figure out a way to put these ideas down in an organized manner.

I can see how this comparison could be the tip of the iceberg that explores the larger ice 'n fire theme of the story. There is a definitely a dichotomy going on here, and I agree when you say, "By now we should realize George uses phrases to direct the reader into a specific direction."

... I can also see how this might reveal some uncomfortable details about certain characters

I have only skimmed LmL's last two essays (time has been tight!), some good ideas, some whacky ideas, but in general he does a good job bringing together much we see in the books. I will have to make some downtime to get back to reading those two essays more closely now that birthdays and Christmas are passing by.

[Lady Dacey]

4 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

In the Prologue of A Game of Thrones we are introduced to the Others. Waymar Royce battles an Other and becomes the first known victim. Kraznys mo Nakloz becomes Drogon's first victim in Daenarys III, A Storm of Swords. George uses the same phrase in both events.

Then the Plaza of Punishment blew apart into blood and chaos. The Good Masters were shrieking, stumbling, shoving one another aside and tripping over the fringes of their tokars in their haste. Drogon flew almost lazily at Kraznys, black wings beating. As he gave the slaver another taste of fire...

The phrase "almost lazily" stood out to me upon a recent read. This is because George uses a very similar phrase when Waymar is killed back in the Prologue.

Ser Waymar Royce found his fury. "For Robert!" he shouted, and he came up snarling, lifting the frost-covered longsword with both hands and swinging it around in a flat sidearm slash with all his weight behind it. The Other's parry was almost lazy.

This is very interesting because these are the only two instances where George uses either of these phrases in his entire Ice and Fire writings. By now we should realize George uses phrases to direct the reader into a specific direction. I believe he is doing this here. He may want us to relate the two passages. 

There are obvious opposites at work in the two scenes as well. Waymar is killed by the swords of the Others. Kraznys is killed by the sword of Drogon (fire). The moon is present in the night sky during Waymar's death. The sun is flashing during the death of Kraznys. 

Wow, that's awesome!!! I do perceive both the Others and the dragons in the same realm of "magical treats to mankind". They are polar opposites and represent imbalance/lack of equilibrium, which is a destructive force (chaos). A sword without a hilt and with its own will... it's great to see that Martin is pointing at this direction (comparing their kills) in his writing. I'd love to discuss it further. 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

11 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

Wow, that's awesome!!! I do perceive both the Others and the dragons in the same real of "magical treats to mankind". They are polar opposites and represent imbalance/lack of equilibrium, which is a destructive force (chaos). A sword without a hilt and with its own will... it's great to see that Martin is pointing at this direction (comparing their kills) in his writing. I'd love to discuss it further. 

Yeah. I should have made a new thread, I'll do that now.