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Wow, I never noticed that v.16


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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You are citing quotes about two different companies. And the first deals with a contract between the Golden Company and whoever procured its services, while second involves the men who sign up to serve in the Second Sons. 

 

2 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

@divica

But it is very interesting to see the two companies current views on the blood vs. ink dynamic. I like it. Nice find (even if it wasn't what you were intending)! ;)

 

I was thinking that it shows in the past the sellswords companies signed contrats with blood to show they won t betray that contract (be it people signing up to join the company or the company accepting a comission). It is a strech at this point, but it is a reason to pay attention to more details about the history and traditions of sellsword companies.

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23 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Thank you and probably. I did mention that this may have been Cersei's way of bastardizing Ned by flipping his House colors. This is what Ned did to Jon if Jon is a legitimate child. I find it very symbolic.

I know, I also wanted to quote that but somehow didn't. I meant, is there a possibility that Ned chose his clothing on his own for some reason?

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11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I know, I also wanted to quote that but somehow didn't. I meant, is there a possibility that Ned chose his clothing on his own for some reason?

I don't know why Ned would choose to do that, but what if it's Littlefinger's idea? He would so suggest something like this to Joffrey because it would be so "hilarious". He brought Ned low, this only brings him lower before the man is executed. It would be like the frosting on the cake of all his scheming.

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11 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I don't know why Ned would choose to do that, but what if it's Littlefinger's idea? He would so suggest something like this to Joffrey because it would be so "hilarious". He brought Ned low, this only brings him lower before the man is executed. It would be like the frosting on the cake of all his scheming.

Don't know, perhaps to give a subtle hint towards Joffrey's parentage, though it would be a stretch? Because Ned's is never in question while Joffrey's is. Ned was never supposed to be executed.

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22 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Don't know, perhaps to give a subtle hint towards Joffrey's parentage, though it would be a stretch?

I wanna say that I doubt this. Plus LF did manage to get rid of Joff later. So I really don't know.

22 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Ned was never supposed to be executed.

I'm going the other way on this, that what happened on the steps of the Sept of Baelor was supposed to happen exactly the way it happened and that Joffrey, Janos Slynt, Littlefinger and possibly Ilyn Payne were all in on it.

Arya sees Littlefinger, and she identifies him as the man who once fought a duel for her mother. For me personally, the way Arya identified him is pretty big. He's not the master of coin, or her mother's foster brother. He is the man who fought a duel for her mother instead. I think it might be very telling that this is coming mere minutes before Ned loses his head. 

For Cersei, the High Septon, Varys, Ned was never supposed to die. But for Joffrey, Littlefinger, Janos Slynt (who was in LF's pocket), I think it happened exactly planned.

The flipped house colors is whoever's way to tell Ned that he is nothing now.

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44 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

I don't know why Ned would choose to do that, but what if it's Littlefinger's idea? He would so suggest something like this to Joffrey because it would be so "hilarious". He brought Ned low, this only brings him lower before the man is executed. It would be like the frosting on the cake of all his scheming.

For sure. 

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Normally, when we think about stone kings we think about the crypts in Winterfell. Arya associates them with home, while they remind Jon that he doesn't belong, and Theon is afraid of them. But I never noticed that Daenerys is the first character to see "stone kings." They "looked down on her from their thrones, their faces chipped and stained, even their names lost in the mists of time," as she entered Vaes Dothrak. There are no further mentions of "stone kings." 

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Tormund Giantsbane, who is also Husband to Bears is a short man with a broad chest and massive belly.

We know Tormund was more a babe to the giantess than a bane.

Guess which family in the North has short but strongly built members.

Could it be that Tormund fathering children from a bear also has some truth to it, but instead of fathering children from a bear, he is a bear himself, possibly through his mother?

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1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Tormund Giantsbane, who is also Husband to Bears is a short man with a broad chest and massive belly.

We know Tormund was more a babe to the giantess than a bane.

Guess which family in the North has short but strongly built members.

Could it be that Tormund fathering children from a bear also has some truth to it, but instead of fathering children from a bear, he is a bear himself, possibly through his mother?

I know many people believe he might be the father to one of Maege Mormont's daughters. I'm not inclined to believe that. Him a descent from house Mormont, even less so. I think he's widling through and through.

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20 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Arya sees Littlefinger, and she identifies him as the man who once fought a duel for her mother. For me personally, the way Arya identified him is pretty big. He's not the master of coin, or her mother's foster brother. He is the man who fought a duel for her mother instead. I think it might be very telling that this is coming mere minutes before Ned loses his head. 

For Cersei, the High Septon, Varys, Ned was never supposed to die. But for Joffrey, Littlefinger, Janos Slynt (who was in LF's pocket), I think it happened exactly planned.

The flipped house colors is whoever's way to tell Ned that he is nothing now.

This is an excellent catch!  You could say that Ned's execution represents the 'second round' of the duel vs. the Starks -- except this time with Littlefinger as the winner. Another interesting inverse parallel between 'round one' on the water stair and 'round two' on the steps of Baelor is the treatment of mercy, with Baelish having learnt from 'round one' that it does not behoove the victor to grant the humiliated party the slightest 'madness of mercy' (as Brandon did sparing Littlefinger's life in 'round one' at Cat's request), which only serves to buy the loser time and motivate him to take revenge on his rival in 'round two.'  Accordingly, there was no stay of execution at Ned's 'duel', despite the pleas of Sansa (playing the role of Cat 2.0 here). The symbolic equivalent of the 'water' in 'round one' would be the sword Ice (ice=frozen water).  Had Brandon not practised restraint, the water would've closed over Littlefinger's head and he would never have risen again to fight another day.  Interestingly, GRRM uses a trope of drowning -- particularly drowning in an icy lake -- to characterise Littlefinger's murderous fantasies towards Ned!  I'd argue, this is yet another echo of the Brandon Stark-Petyr Baelish duel, and how it still plays on Petyr's mind.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Eddard VIII

"Do you always find murder so amusing, Lord Baelish?"

"It's not murder I find amusing, Lord Stark, it's you. You rule like a man dancing on rotten ice. I daresay you will make a noble splash. I believe I heard the first crack this morning."

"The first and last," said Ned. 

'The first and last' is an echo of yet another pivotal duel...

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Eddard X

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

And now we can reflect on Varys's riddle:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion II

"A shadow on the wall," Varys murmured, "yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

...

Varys smiled. "Some say knowledge is power. Some tell us that all power comes from the gods. Others say it derives from law. Yet that day on the steps of Baelor's Sept, our godly High Septon and the lawful Queen Regent and your ever-so-knowledgeable servant were as powerless as any cobbler or cooper in the crowd. Who truly killed Eddard Stark, do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or . . . another?"

A small man can cast a large shadow over history (especially when that small brainy man never got over losing a duel to a bigger brawnier one).  In other words, one duel between two men ('brothers' of a sort...Ned and Littlefinger are brothers-in-law, given Ned's wife identifying Petyr as her little brother) can have untold repercussions many years later, even escalating into a fullscale war on an international scale, ultimately all because of the wounded narcissistic ego of one man.

 @Unchained you would like this for obvious reasons B)

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With regard to who knew what about Ned's execution, it's all but confirmed that Janos Slynt and Ilyn Payne knew it was going to happen in Tyrion II, Clash 8.

Quote

 

"I bet he's that traitor's bastard," Lommy said one night, in hushed voice so Gendry would not hear. "The wolf lord, the one they nicked on Baelor's steps."

"He is not," Arya declared. My father only had one bastard, and that's Jon. (Arya III, Clash 9)

 

I guess this is part of the gossip at Flea Bottom.

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Compare this...

Quote

"Put down your steel now, and I promise you shall have a quick and painless death," Robb called out.

Bran looked up in desperate hope, and there he was. The strength of the words were undercut by the way his voice cracked with strain. He was mounted, the bloody carcass of an elk slung across the back of his horse, his sword in a gloved hand.

"The brother," said the man with the grey stubbly face.

"He's a fierce one, he is," mocked the short woman. Hali, they called her. "You mean to fight us, boy?"

"Don't be a fool, lad. You're one against six." The tall woman, Osha, leveled her spear. "Off the horse, and throw down the sword. We'll thank you kindly for the mount and for the venison, and you and your brother can be on your way."

Robb whistled. They heard the faint sound of soft feet on wet leaves. The undergrowth parted, low-hanging branches giving up their accumulation of snow, and Grey Wind and Summer emerged from the green. Summer sniffed the air and growled.

"Wolves," gasped Hali.

"Direwolves," Bran said. Still half-grown, they were as large as any wolf he had ever seen, but the differences were easy to spot, if you knew what to look for. Maester Luwin and Farlen the kennelmaster had taught him. A direwolf had a bigger head and longer legs in proportion to its body, and its snout and jaw were markedly leaner and more pronounced. There was something gaunt and terrible about them as they stood there amid the gently falling snow. Fresh blood spotted Grey Wind's muzzle.

Bran V, Game 37

To this...

Quote

How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? the riddle ran. A thousand eyes, and one. Some claimed the King's Hand was a student of the dark arts who could change his face, put on the likeness of a one-eyed dog, even turn into a mist. Packs of gaunt gray wolves hunted down his foes, men said, and carrion crows spied for him and whispered secrets in his ear.

The Mystery Knight

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38 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Compare this...

Bran V, Game 37

To this...

The Mystery Knight

This sort of description comes up very often in the books: 

Arya I, ASOS

"She was no little girl in the dream; she was a wolf, huge and powerful, and when she emerged from beneath the trees in front of them and bared her teeth in a low rumbling growl, she could smell the rank stench of fear from horse and man alike. The Lyseni's mount reared and screamed in terror, and the others shouted at one another in mantalk, but before they could act the other wolves came hurtling from the darkness and the rain, a great pack of them, gaunt and wet and silent."

Jon V, ASOS 

"He tried to think back on the madness at the inn, but all he could remember was the beast, gaunt and grey and terrible. It was too large to be a common wolf. A direwolf, then. It had to be. He had never seen an animal move so fast."

Arya III, ASOS 

"Warm and dry in a corner between Gendry and Harwin, Arya listened to the singing for a time, then closed her eyes and drifted off to sleep. She dreamt of home; not Riverrun, but Winterfell. It was not a good dream, though. She was alone outside the castle, up to her knees in mud. She could see the greywalls ahead of her, but when she tried to reach the gates every step seemed harder than the one before, and the castle faded before her, until it looked more like smoke than granite. And there were wolves as well, gaunt grey shapes stalking through the trees all around her, their eyes shining. Whenever she looked at them, she remembered the taste of blood."

Bran I, ADWD 

"The direwolf moved toward the meat,gaunt grey shadow sliding from tree to tree, through pools of moonlight and over mounds of snow."

bran III, ADWD 

"The moon was fat and full. Summer prowled through the silent woods, a long grey shadow that grew more gaunt with every hunt, for living game could not be found."

 

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Catelyn III - A Clash of Kings
Catelyn was remembering, fitting pieces together. "My sister Lysa accused the queen of killing her husband in a letter she sent me at Winterfell," she admitted. "Later, in the Eyrie, she laid the murder at the feet of the queen's brother Tyrion."
Stannis snorted. "If you step in a nest of snakes, does it matter which one bites you first?"
 
Daenerys II - A Dance With Dragons
 
"Lannister or Stark, what difference? Viserys used to call them the Usurper's dogs. If a child is set upon by a pack of hounds, does it matter which one tears out his throat? All the dogs are just as guilty."
 
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3 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:
Catelyn III - A Clash of Kings
Catelyn was remembering, fitting pieces together. "My sister Lysa accused the queen of killing her husband in a letter she sent me at Winterfell," she admitted. "Later, in the Eyrie, she laid the murder at the feet of the queen's brother Tyrion."
Stannis snorted. "If you step in a nest of snakes, does it matter which one bites you first?"
 
Daenerys II - A Dance With Dragons
 
"Lannister or Stark, what difference? Viserys used to call them the Usurper's dogs. If a child is set upon by a pack of hounds, does it matter which one tears out his throat? All the dogs are just as guilty."
 

Nice one!

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I'm sure this won't blow anyone's mind but I've recently finished my first aGoT re-read and these stood out to me -

In Asshai, the maester that Mirri Maz Duur learnt anatomy and the common tongue from was Marywn - that's a huge revelation! He is mentioned once in aSoS then we meet him properly in aFFC, so I'm not going to kick myself for missing it the first time.

For some reason I'd assumed the Seven Kingdoms were an Andal thing (perhaps their association with the number 7?) but they were started by the First Men.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran VII


(Luwin) "So long as the kingdoms of the First Men held sway, the Pact endured, all through the Age of Heroes and the Long Night and the birth of the Seven Kingdoms, yet finally there came a time, many centuries later, when other peoples crossed the narrow sea.
"The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair-haired warriors who came with steel and fire and the seven-pointed star of the new gods painted on their chests.

But the scene and chapter that stood out the most was Jon and Aemon's conversation on honor vs love in Jon VIII. I noticed there was a focus on Jon's bloody hands:

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Jon shifted the bucket to his right hand and thrust his left down into the bloody bits.

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Jon's fingers were in the bucket, blood up to the wrist.

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The fingers of his left hand were slimy with blood, and his right throbbed from the weight of the bucket.

If anyone can point me to an analysis of this scene, I'd love to read it.

 

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Numbers may be somewhat wrong, so correct me if you have better numbers but here it goes

Westeros isn't as big as it is represented and neither is North so big as we are told; It took Samwell less than 2 months(he states he only saw snow last month so it may be even fewer weeks) to travel from Barrowlands to Wall. A day's ride is 40-50 km at best (Mongolians covering 100 miles with 3-4 horses).

It takes Catelyn and Ser Rodrick a fortnight of riding from King's landing to Inn at the crossroads.

It also takes the Starks a fortnight to travel from Darry to King's Landing.

All these three would be at slower paces than the average due to those travelling (Samwell, Catelyn and Arya, Sansa, Septa...) and the average distance traveled will be shorter than the average distance a Mongol horse covers per day.

 

 

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OMG!

Ok, other people have probably detected this but assuming Lemore is Ashara:

"I am sad for you." Lemore slipped her robe over her head. "I know you only rise so early in hopes of seeing turtles."
"I like to watch the sun come up as well." It was like watching a maiden rising naked from her bath. Some might be prettier than others, but every one was full of promise. "The turtles have their charms, I will allow. Nothing delights me so much as the sight of a nice pair of shapely … shells."
- Tyrion IV, A Dance With Dragons:
 
"I like to watch the sun come up as well.'' = Dawn = House Dayne = Ashara
 
Now, I don't know if Tyrion meant it as an insinuation that he knows or suspects who she is, or if it's (most likely) just a suggestion from Grrm to the reader, but it's a great hint.
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33 minutes ago, Lady Anna said:

OMG!

Ok, other people have probably detected this but assuming Lemore is Ashara:

"I am sad for you." Lemore slipped her robe over her head. "I know you only rise so early in hopes of seeing turtles."
"I like to watch the sun come up as well." It was like watching a maiden rising naked from her bath. Some might be prettier than others, but every one was full of promise. "The turtles have their charms, I will allow. Nothing delights me so much as the sight of a nice pair of shapely … shells."
- Tyrion IV, A Dance With Dragons:
 
"I like to watch the sun come up as well.'' = Dawn = House Dayne = Ashara
 
Now, I don't know if Tyrion meant it as an insinuation that he knows or suspects who she is, or if it's (most likely) just a suggestion from Grrm to the reader, but it's a great hint.

I still think it's the Mad Maid, but that's the kind of possible hint that can make me change my mind. Nice catch. 

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