Wow, I never noticed that v.16

[Lady Dacey]

It nothing much, but I just caught this parallel while re-reading: 

Arya leaving Harrenhal:

For a moment she did not know what to say. For a moment she was a little girl again, and scared, and the rain on her face felt like tears.

Arya leaving the House of Black and White for the first time:

Rain began to fall. Arya turned her face up to let the raindrops wash her cheeks, so happy she could dance.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

11 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

It nothing much, but I just caught this parallel while re-reading: 

Arya leaving Harrenhal:

For a moment she did not know what to say. For a moment she was a little girl again, and scared, and the rain on her face felt like tears.

Arya leaving the House of Black and White for the first time:

Rain began to fall. Arya turned her face up to let the raindrops wash her cheeks, so happy she could dance.

 

Nice. 

[Ckram]

In "The Hedge Knight", after writing several paragraphs describing the drought and its effects on the vegetation of Wat's Wood, GRRM comes with this:

Quote

When ducking down beneath an overhanging limb, Dunk plucked a leaf and crumpled it between his fingers. It fell apart like thousand-year-old parchment in his hand.

And I found myself wondering: How much does Weirnet lose during droughts and winters? How much do they affect its use?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Oh, wow... What's the author trying to do here?

Quote

"You think to outlive me, dwarf?" The sellsword grinned. He had a dark gap in his smile where the edge of Ser Vardis Egen's shield had cracked a tooth in half.

Tyrion shrugged. "Riding hard and fast by night is a sure way to tumble down a mountain and crack your skull. I prefer to make my crossing slow and easy. I know you love the taste of horse, Bronn, but if our mounts dieunder us this time, we'll be trying to saddle shadowcats . . . and if truth be told, I think the clans will find us no matter what we do. Their eyes are all around us." He swept a gloved hand over the high, wind-carved crags that surrounded them.

Bronn grimaced. "Then we're dead men, Lannister."

"If so, I prefer to die comfortable," Tyrion replied. "We need a fire. The nights are cold up here, and hot food will warm our bellies and lift our spirits. Do you suppose there's any game to be had? Lady Lysa has kindly provided us with a veritable feast of salt beef, hard cheese, and stale bread, but I would hate to break a tooth so far from the nearest maester."

Tyrion VI, Game 42

[Lost Melnibonean]

Wow I never noticed that the white Hart is associated with the ghostly Herne the Hunter in English folklore. The men of House Baratheon wear helmets with antlers. Robert hunts a white hart in the forest, and ends up being gored by a boar. Herne wears antlers too. And in one version of his legend, he is killed when hunting a white hart. 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Wow I never noticed that the white Hart is associated with the ghostly Herne the Hunter in English folklore. The men of House Baratheon wear helmets with antlers. Robert hunts a white hart in the forest, and ends up being gored by a boar. Herne wears antlers too. And in one version of his legend, he is killed when hunting a white hart. 

Nice. 

And surely the greenseer candidate brothers Herndon of the Horn and Harlon the Hunter from Horn Hill are based on the above mentioned Herne the Hunter. 

Regards Robert's hunt, the mythology of the White Hart has some interesting reading.  Here's a couple of things I noted after a quick search...... [Under the Influence: Mythical Beast section]
 

Quote

 

''Elusive and rare, our forefathers may have caught a glimpse of the white stag in some hidden glade in the woods,  or seen it moving ghost-like across the wild moors, or maybe stood high on a rocky outcrop crowned against the sky.  The white stag was always something to be desired yet always out of reach. Always leading the hunt onwards, ever onwards, to a destiny ordained by the gods.''

''For those humans who encountered a white stag, there were often profound consequences, sometimes stimulating great spiritual changes within a person. Sometimes these encounters have been the trigger of great events leading to the creation of nations and kingdoms.''

''In Celtic mythology, the White Stag symbolises the existence of the Otherworld and that forces from the Otherworld are present and in action. The Celtic god Cernunnos was depicted zoomorphically as a man with horns growing from his head.

In earlier times the Celts believed that the white stag was an agent from the ‘Other world’ and a bringer of great changes to those it encountered. The white stag often appeared when something sacred, or a law or code, was being broken.''

 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Nice. 

And surely the greenseer candidate brothers Herndon of the Horn and Harlon the Hunter from Horn Hill are based on the above mentioned Herne the Hunter. 

Regards Robert's hunt, the mythology of the White Hart has some interesting reading.  Here's a couple of things I noted after a quick search...... [Under the Influence: Mythical Beast section]
 

 

In fact, Herne was said to haunt an old oak tree, sound like anyone we know? 

[Lady Dacey]

Vance and Piper are two Riverlands houses, and their heirs frequently appear together during A Game of Thrones. Their names are Karyl and Marq. These houses are suspect of funding and working together with the Brotherhood Without Banners, an organization that's supposed to be dedicated to the protection of the smallfolk. Are their names a reference to a certain historical figure? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Perhaps Rhaego drowned in the Womb of the World? 

Dragons were born of the moon, and they would be reborn of the moon when the moon got too close to the sun...

Quote

"A trader from Qarth once told me that dragons came from the moon," blond Doreah said as she warmed a towel over the fire. Jhiqui and Irri were of an age with Dany, Dothraki girls taken as slaves when Drogo destroyed their father's khalasar. Doreah was older, almost twenty. Magister Illyriohad found her in a pleasure house in Lys.

Silvery-wet hair tumbled across her eyes as Dany turned her head, curious. "The moon?"

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi," the Lysene girl said. "Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return."

Daenerys III, Game 23

Eventually, Daenerys fell for Drogo, and he became her sun...

Quote

Ser Jorah Mormont said, "The Western Market will have food more to your taste, Your Grace. The traders from the Free Cities come there to sell their wares. The khal will honor his promise in his own time."

"He had better," Viserys said grimly. "I was promised a crown, and I mean to have it. The dragon is not mocked." Spying an obscene likeness of a woman with six breasts and a ferret's head, he rode off to inspect it more closely.

Dany was relieved, yet no less anxious. "I pray that my sun-and-stars will not keep him waiting too long," she told Ser Jorah when her brother was out of earshot.

Daenerys IV, Game 36

And Daenerys became his moon...

Quote

"What is meaning, name Rhaego," Khal Drogo asked as they walked, using the Common Tongue of the Seven Kingdoms. She had been teaching him a few words when she could. Drogo was quick to learn when he put his mind to it, though his accent was so thick and barbarous that neither Ser Jorah nor Viserys could understand a word he said.

"My brother Rhaegar was a fierce warrior, my sun-and-stars," she told him. "He died before I was born. Ser Jorah says that he was the last of the dragons."

Khal Drogo looked down at her. His face was a copper mask, yet under the long black mustache, drooping beneath the weight of its gold rings, she thought she glimpsed the shadow of a smile. "Is good name, Dan Ares wife, moon of my life," he said.

Daenerys V, Game 46

And the moon shattered when Daenerys baptized her unborn son...

Quote

They rode to the lake the Dothraki called the Womb of the World, surrounded by a fringe of reeds, its water still and calm. A thousand thousand years ago, Jhiqui told her, the first man had emerged from its depths, riding upon the back of the first horse.

The procession waited on the grassy shore as Dany stripped and let her soiled clothing fall to the ground. Naked, she stepped gingerly into the water. Irri said the lake had no bottom, but Dany felt soft mud squishing between her toes as she pushed through the tall reeds. The moon floated on the still black waters, shattering and re-forming as her ripples washed over it. Goose pimples rose on her pale skin as the coldness crept up her thighs and kissed her lower lips. The stallion's blood had dried on her hands and around hoer mouth. Dany cupped her fingers and lifted the sacred waters over her head, cleansing herself and the child inside her while the khal and the others looked on. She heard the old women of the dosh khaleen muttering to each other as they watched, and wondered what they were saying.

Daenerys V, Game 46

[Lost Melnibonean]

Is there a connection here?

Quote

"The same could be said of rubies and diamonds and fire opals, Princess . . . and dragon's eggs are rarer by far. Those traders he's been drinking with would sell their own manhoods for even one of those stones, and with all three Viserys could buy as many sellswords as he might need."

Daenerys V, Game 46

Quote

"One day at Myr, a certain man came to our folly. After the performance, he made an offer for me that my master found too tempting to refuse. I was in terror. I feared the man meant to use me as I had heard men used small boys, but in truth the only part of me he had need of was my manhood. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.”

Tyrion X, Clash 44

Quote

The Crow's Eye sipped from his silver cup. "I once held a dragon's egg in this hand, brother. ThisMyrish wizard swore he could hatch it if I gave him a year and all the gold that he required. When I grew bored with his excuses, I slew him. As he watched his entrails sliding through his fingers he said, ‘But it has not been a year.'" He laughed.

The Reaver, Feast 29

[Seams]

Aha! That might make this passage

Littlefinger smiled. "Leave Lord Varys to me, sweet lady. If you will permit me a small obscenity—and where better for it than here—I hold the man's balls in the palm of my hand." He cupped his fingers, smiling. "Or would, if he were a man, or had any balls. You see, if the pie is opened, the birds begin to sing, and Varys would not like that. Were I you, I would worry more about the Lannisters and less about the eunuch." 

AGoT, Eddard IV

possible confirmation of a pet theory that Littlefinger has (or soon obtains) some dragon eggs.

Very nice!

[Wizz-The-Smith]

22 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

In fact, Herne was said to haunt an old oak tree, sound like anyone we know? 

Indeed, that tree is pretty close to where I live, I should go there sometime. 

10 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

Vance and Piper are two Riverlands houses, and their heirs frequently appear together during A Game of Thrones. Their names are Karyl and Marq. These houses are suspect of funding and working together with the Brotherhood Without Banners, an organization that's supposed to be dedicated to the protection of the smallfolk. Are their names a reference to a certain historical figure? 

Hi Lady Dacey. 

The two Houses Vance are a tribute from George to one of his favourite writers, Jack Vance.  The names of family members and castles are a nod to his works.  Here is a break down for you........

HOUSE VANCE OF WAYFARER’S REST

Their sigil is Quartered, a black dragon on a white field and two golden eyes in a golden ring on a black field.

The dragons in the sigil refer to one of JV’s works ‘The Dragon Masters’ and the ‘golden eyes’ to his ‘The Eyes of the Overworld’ series. 

The name of the castle, ‘Wayfarer’s Rest’ is another literary nod to Vance’s work, this time the ‘Liane the Wayfarer’ short story.

There is no obvious link to be found around Lord Karyl Vance himself, but he has three daughters that we have yet to meet in the series, they are only mentioned.  Liane, Rhialta and Emphyria.

Liane Vance is a reference to the afore mentioned ‘Liane the Wayfarer’

Rhialta Vance is a nod to the short story by JV, ‘Rhialto the Marvellous’

And Emphyria Vance is an inspiration from Vance’s novel ‘Emphyrio’

Some cool nods, but why not have a secondary house if you have some more!

HOUSE VANCE OF ATRANTA

Their sigil is Quartered, a green dragon on a white field and a white tower on a black field.

Again the ‘dragons’ in the sigil refer to JV’s ‘The Dragon Masters’ and this time the ‘towers’ represent Vance’s novel ‘The Last Castle’.

The name of the castle, ‘Atranta’ is a nod to a land in one of JV’s novels ‘Bad Ronald’ of which they later made a film BTW. 

The blind Lord ‘Norbert’ Vance is again a reference to the novel ‘Bad Ronald’.  Norbert is a main character from this book.  What about his sons? .................

Ser Ronald ‘the bad’ Vance is funny once you realise this is another play on the novel ‘Bad Ronald’.  Ha!  Nice one George.

Ser Hugo Vance's association with Jack Vance is slightly different.  This a nod to JV’s [I think] three Hugo awards, rather than a book/novel itself.  And of course George is no stranger to a Hugo award!  

---------------------------------------

House Piper I'm not so sure about.  Although @ravenous reader did point out to me that it may alluding to the 'Pied Piper' in the respect that Lord Clement Piper is leading the Lannister's a merry dance with his scheming, leading them exactly where he wants them.  In a similar way to how Tom 'o' Sevens seems to be playing Jaime like a fiddle etc...  I like that idea.

Cheers Lady Dacey, I hope that's of interest, I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts.   

[Lady Anna]

Daenerys III, A Dance With Dragons:

"When I went to the Hall of a Thousand Thrones to beg the Pureborn for your life, I said that you were no more than a child," Xaro went on, "but Egon Emeros the Exquisite rose and said, 'She is a foolish child, mad and heedless and too dangerous to live.' When your dragons were small they were a wonder. Grown, they are death and devastation, a flaming sword above the world." He wiped away the tears. "I should have slain you in Qarth."

[kissdbyfire]

11 hours ago, Lady Dacey said:

Vance and Piper are two Riverlands houses, and their heirs frequently appear together during A Game of Thrones. Their names are Karyl and Marq. These houses are suspect of funding and working together with the Brotherhood Without Banners, an organization that's supposed to be dedicated to the protection of the smallfolk. Are their names a reference to a certain historical figure? 

OMG Karl Marx!!!! Decades on and... wow, I never noticed that!

 

[Lady Dacey]

29 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Indeed, that tree is pretty close to where I live, I should go there sometime. 

Hi Lady Dacey. 

The two Houses Vance are a tribute from George to one of his favourite writers, Jack Vance.  The names of family members and castles are a nod to his works.  Here is a break down for you........

HOUSE VANCE OF WAYFARER’S REST

Their sigil is Quartered, a black dragon on a white field and two golden eyes in a golden ring on a black field.

The dragons in the sigil refer to one of JV’s works ‘The Dragon Masters’ and the ‘golden eyes’ to his ‘The Eyes of the Overworld’ series. 

The name of the castle, ‘Wayfarer’s Rest’ is another literary nod to Vance’s work, this time the ‘Liane the Wayfarer’ short story.

There is no obvious link to be found around Lord Karyl Vance himself, but he has three daughters that we have yet to meet in the series, they are only mentioned.  Liane, Rhialta and Emphyria.

Liane Vance is a reference to the afore mentioned ‘Liane the Wayfarer’

Rhialta Vance is a nod to the short story by JV, ‘Rhialto the Marvellous’

And Emphyria Vance is an inspiration from Vance’s novel ‘Emphyrio’

Some cool nods, but why not have a secondary house if you have some more!

HOUSE VANCE OF ATRANTA

Their sigil is Quartered, a green dragon on a white field and a white tower on a black field.

Again the ‘dragons’ in the sigil refer to JV’s ‘The Dragon Masters’ and this time the ‘towers’ represent Vance’s novel ‘The Last Castle’.

The name of the castle, ‘Atranta’ is a nod to a land in one of JV’s novels ‘Bad Ronald’ of which they later made a film BTW. 

The blind Lord ‘Norbert’ Vance is again a reference to the novel ‘Bad Ronald’.  Norbert is a main character from this book.  What about his sons? .................

Ser Ronald ‘the bad’ Vance is funny once you realise this is another play on the novel ‘Bad Ronald’.  Ha!  Nice one George.

Ser Hugo Vance's association with Jack Vance is slightly different.  This a nod to JV’s [I think] three Hugo awards, rather than a book/novel itself.  And of course George is no stranger to a Hugo award!  

---------------------------------------

House Piper I'm not so sure about.  Although @ravenous reader did point out to me that it may alluding to the 'Pied Piper' in the respect that Lord Clement Piper is leading the Lannister's a merry dance with his scheming, leading them exactly where he wants them.  In a similar way to how Tom 'o' Sevens seems to be playing Jaime like a fiddle etc...  I like that idea.

Cheers Lady Dacey, I hope that's of interest, I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts.   

That was a very interesting read, I really appreciate it, thanks! If they are favorites of GRRM they're certainly worth getting to know. But I was actually hinting at this:

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

OMG Karl Marx!!!! Decades on and... wow, I never noticed that!

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

That was a very interesting read, I really appreciate it, thanks! If they are favorites of GRRM they're certainly worth getting to know

Jack Vance is most definitely worth knowing!!!!  

[The Fattest Leech]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Jack Vance is most definitely worth knowing!!!!  

Yes, I second this very much. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

26 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

OMG Karl Marx!!!! Decades on and... wow, I never noticed that!

 

He is like hyperliberal too, isn't he? (I wonder how he feels about income redistribution. )

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

He is like hyperliberal too, isn't he? (I wonder how he feels about income redistribution. )

Excellent!

 

[Seams]

21 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Is there a connection here?

Daenerys V, Game 46

Tyrion X, Clash 44

The Reaver, Feast 29

I keep thinking about this. This is really good.

I suspect this connection between dragon's eggs and selling one's manhood - cutting off balls, juggling balls - may be a really key piece of evidence in sorting out who has dragon's eggs or dragons, or how to hatch an egg once it is obtained.

Quite awhile ago, I wondered why we were given the story of Quentyn "Fireball" Ball and Glendon Flowers in such great detail. I thought it had something to do with juggling and with the "death" of Quentyn Martell who is burned in a fireball generated by a dragon. But exactly what GRRM was doing with balls and juggling was unclear. Now I can see that it has to do with obtaining an egg. The role of Glendon Flowers in the Dunk & Egg story becomes much more meaningful. The role of Bloodraven in killing Quentyn Ball also takes on deeper meaning.

The lines you uncovered help to connect more of the dots: now we know that there is a price paid to buy an egg, and the price is to sacrifice one's balls. But I bet the ball metaphor is also part of the "game" of thrones - the person with the ball can score; everyone else plays defense.