Wow, I never noticed that v.16

[Lost Melnibonean]

33 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You need 4 people to accompany a smuggled child; I've previously pointed out the similarities between Edric's and Viserys&Dany smugglings. I've noticed Aemon also has 4 accompanying him, his namesake, his milk mother, his adoptive father and a singer, just as it was in the previous two.

  And there are economies of scale with more smuggled kids... Only four were required to smuggle Bran and Rickon: Osha, Hodor, Jojen and Meera. 

[Corvo the Crow]

17 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

  And there are economies of scale with more smuggled kids... Only four were required to smuggle Bran and Rickon: Osha, Hodor, Jojen and Meera. 

Wow! I never noticed this! Smuggle two for the price of one I guess, as it was the same with Targlings.

Using watercraft also seems to be the preferred method of child smugglers; Targlings, Edric, Rickon and Aemon all traveled across sea at one point or another.

[Corvo the Crow]

Going by the Stark kids; Tullys are airheads. Stark looking Jon and Arya are good at sums, Sansa sucks at it, Robb may or may not suck but is worse at it than Jon.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

9 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Going by the Stark kids; Tullys are airheads. Stark looking Jon and Arya are good at sums, Sansa sucks at it, Robb may or may not suck but is worse at it than Jon.

For all her shortcomings as a lady, Arya knows how to manage a household better than her sister. (Arya I, AGOT 7)

There's this with Catelyn;

"We have suffered much, and there is more peril and more grief ahead. We need to face it boldly, with horns blowing and banners flying bravely. But this rain beats us down. The banners hang limp and sodden, and the men huddle under the cloaks and scarcely speak to one another. Only an evil rain would chill our hearts when most we need them to burn hot." (Catelyn V, ASOS 45)

[Lollygag]

4 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Going by the Stark kids; Tullys are airheads. Stark looking Jon and Arya are good at sums, Sansa sucks at it, Robb may or may not suck but is worse at it than Jon.

So everyone not good with numbers is an airhead?

[Corvo the Crow]

17 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

So everyone not good with numbers is an airhead?

Bad choice of words on my part, apoligies if it was offensive to you or anyone else. 

[Lollygag]

51 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Bad choice of words on my part, apoligies if it was offensive to you or anyone else. 

That's better

[Lollygag]

Quhuru Mo is a Summer Islander who captains the Cinnamon Wind. He visited Dany in Qarth in ACOK Daenerys II and had just heard of Robert’s death while in Oldtown. Sam is a passenger on his ship from Braavos to Oldtown. Oldtown comes up often in ACOK Dany I & II perhaps hinting at a link. Gunthor Hightower comes aboard the Cinnamon Wind in Sam’s POV.

 

TWOIAF

Certain Summer Islanders with a desire to see the wider world have been known to take up service abroad as mercenary bowmen and sellsails. Others have joined the pirates of the Basilisk Isles; some became captains of dark renown whose deeds are spoken of with dread in ports as distand as Qarth and Oldtown.

[Lost Melnibonean]

19 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Quhuru Mo is a Summer Islander who captains the Cinnamon Wind. He visited Dany in Qarth in ACOK Daenerys II and had just heard of Robert’s death while in Oldtown. Sam is a passenger on his ship from Braavos to Oldtown. Oldtown comes up often in ACOK Dany I & II perhaps hinting at a link. Gunthor Hightower comes aboard the Cinnamon Wind in Sam’s POV.

TWOIAF

Certain Summer Islanders with a desire to see the wider world have been known to take up service abroad as mercenary bowmen and sellsails. Others have joined the pirates of the Basilisk Isles; some became captains of dark renown whose deeds are spoken of with dread in ports as distand as Qarth and Oldtown.

You would have liked this old thread...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/105835-moqorro-and-the-cinnamon-wind/

[Lost Melnibonean]

How do we reconcile this...

Quote

"We are not unmindful of your service, good ser. Lord Tywin Lannister has generously agreed to grant you a handsome tract of land north of Lannisport, beside the sea, with gold and men sufficient to build you a stout keep, and servants to see to your every need."

Sansa V, Game 57

With this...

Quote

His father had not raised his voice, yet Tyrioncould see the anger in the gold of his eyes. "And dismissing Selmy, where was the sense in that? Yes, the man was old, but the name of Barristanthe Bold still has meaning in the realm. He lent honor to any man he served. Can anyone say the same of the Hound? You feed your dog bones under the table, you do not seat him beside you on the high bench." He pointed a finger at Tyrion'sface. "If Cersei cannot curb the boy, you must. And if these councillors are playing us false . . . "

Tyrion IX, Game 69

[Lollygag]

38 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

How do we reconcile this...

Quote

"We are not unmindful of your service, good ser. Lord Tywin Lannister has generously agreed to grant you a handsome tract of land north of Lannisport, beside the sea, with gold and men sufficient to build you a stout keep, and servants to see to your every need."

Sansa V, Game 57

With this...

Quote

His father had not raised his voice, yet Tyrioncould see the anger in the gold of his eyes. "And dismissing Selmy, where was the sense in that? Yes, the man was old, but the name of Barristanthe Bold still has meaning in the realm. He lent honor to any man he served. Can anyone say the same of the Hound? You feed your dog bones under the table, you do not seat him beside you on the high bench." He pointed a finger at Tyrion'sface. "If Cersei cannot curb the boy, you must. And if these councillors are playing us false . . . "

Tyrion IX, Game 69

This might help a little. Cersei lied to Tyrion and threw Joff under the bus saying Joff wanted someone to blame when we just saw that Joff didn't care at all. My personal belief is that Cersei in her new regent role knew that she'd be making some requests of the KG which wouldn't exactly go down well with Barristan and Varys jumped on it.

ACOK Tyrion I

"His Grace has a unique way of winning the hearts of his subjects," Tyrion said with a crooked smile. "Was it Joffrey's wish to dismiss Ser Barristan Selmy from his Kingsguard too?"

Cersei sighed. "Joff wanted someone to blame for Robert's death. Varys suggested Ser Barristan. Why not? It gave Jaime command of the Kingsguard and a seat on the small council, and allowed Joff to throw a bone to his dog. He is very fond of Sandor Clegane. We were prepared to offer Selmy some land and a towerhouse, more than the useless old fool deserved."

 

ACOK Sansa I

"I am sorry for your loss as well, Joffrey," the dwarf said.

"What loss?"

"Your royal father? A large fierce man with a black beard; you'll recall him if you try. He was king before you."

"Oh, him. Yes, it was very sad, a boar killed him."

 

[Corvo the Crow]

56 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

How do we reconcile this...

Sansa V, Game 57

With this...

Tyrion IX, Game 69

I promise to help with that if you reconcile the first one it with this

Quote

Lann the Clever supposedly lived to the age of 312, and sired a hundred bold sons and a hundred lissome daughters, all fair of face, clean of limb, and blessed with hair "as golden as the sun." But such tales aside, the histories suggest that the early Lannisters were fertile as well as fair, for many names began to appear in the chronicles, and within a few generations Lann's descendants had grown so numerous that even Casterly Rock could not contain all of them. Rather than tunnel out new passages in the stone, some sons and daughters from lesser branches of the house left to make their homes in a village a scant mile away. The land was fertile, the sea teemed with fish, and the site they had chosen had an excellent natural harbor. Soon enough the village grew into a town, then a city: Lannisport.

 

You may also want to reconcile it with this

Quote

The moon was rising over the wooden walls of Barrowton when they stepped outside. Reek could hear the wind sweeping across the rolling plains beyond the town. It was less than a mile from Barrow Hall to Harwood Stout's modest keep beside the eastern gates. Lord Bolton offered him a horse. "Can you ride?"

Hint hint: Casterly Rock is to the North of Lannisport.

Hint hint: Barrowton is just a large town while Lannisport is the third biggest settlement in Westeros.

 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

21 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I promise to help with that if you reconcile the first one it with this

 

You may also want to reconcile it with this

Hint hint: Casterly Rock is to the North of Lannisport.

Hint hint: Barrowton is just a large town while Lannisport is the third biggest settlement in Westeros.

 

I don’t understand what needs reconciling here... or the relevance to the original quotes. 

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

How do we reconcile this...

Sansa V, Game 57

With this...

Tyrion IX, Game 69

I think I reconcile by recognizing that Cersei is full of shit and just firing from the hip... especially early on throwing around Tywin’s name.  

We learn as the plot moves forward how much he personally through fear and cunning was holding things together and demanding obedience.

[Corvo the Crow]

10 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I don’t understand what needs reconciling here... or the relevance to the original quotes. 

I think I reconcile by recognizing that Cersei is full of shit and just firing from the hip... especially early on throwing around Tywin’s name.  

We learn as the plot moves forward how much he personally through fear and cunning was holding things together and demanding obedience.

Lands promised to Barristan is NORTH of Lannisport. Lannisport village was less than a mile south of Casterly Rock, unless it didn't expand to north as well while it was growing larger and larger, distance between CR and outer walls of LP is now even shorter than that "scant a mile away", not leaving much of an area to place Barristan's promised lands.

We could of course make it somehow fit even though not ideally, but Casterly Rock, Lanisport and the Promised Land are all beside the sea, so it's impossible to work out.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

9 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Lands promised to Barristan is NORTH of Lannisport. Lannisport village was less than a mile south of Casterly Rock, unless it didn't expand to north as well while it was growing larger and larger, distance between CR and outer walls of LP is now even shorter than that "scant a mile away", not leaving much of an area to place Barristan's promised lands.

We could of course make it somehow fit even though not ideally, but Casterly Rock, Lanisport and the Promised Land are all beside the sea, so it's impossible to work out.

What? Maybe I’m still missing something...

Couldn’t there just be a plot of land further north? Why would it have to be between Casterly Rock and Lannisport?

It’s not surprising that a town outside a castle becomes a city, and it’s not impossible the borders have moved since the original founding of the town too.

With the amount of time we are talking the coastline could even have changed... especially because we are talking a city at the mouth of a river.

[Corvo the Crow]

31 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

What? Maybe I’m still missing something...

Couldn’t there just be a plot of land further north? Why would it have to be between Casterly Rock and Lannisport?

It’s not surprising that a town outside a castle becomes a city, and it’s not impossible the borders have moved since the original founding of the town too.

With the amount of time we are talking the coastline could even have changed... especially because we are talking a city at the mouth of a river.

Well, because then it would be the logical thing to say it is North of CR, which is not some random tower house on the road  but the regional capital, and not Lannisport.

Also we don't even learn the distance between the two until after TWOIAF, so possibly a world building error there, knowledge in the saga and world book is inconsistent For another possible inconsistency, Karstark land is implied to be taken from the Boltons in the saga but according to TWOIAF, Boltons never held lands east of the Last River.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Well, because then it would be the logical thing to say it is North of CR, which is not some random tower house on the road  but the regional capital, and not Lannisport.

Also we don't even learn the distance between the two until after TWOIAF, so possibly a world building error there, knowledge in the saga and world book is inconsistent For another possible inconsistency, Karstark land is implied to be taken from the Boltons in the saga but according to TWOIAF, Boltons never held lands east of the Last River.

Historical inconsistency is consistent with the series though!

So at least there is that!

[Seams]

The wineseller with the poison in the Western Market of Vaes Dothrak:

He was a small man, slender and handsome, his flaxen hair curled and perfumed after the fashion of Lys. When Dany paused before his stall, he bowed low. A taste for the Khaleesi? I have a sweet red from Dorne, my lady, it sings of plums and cherries and rich dark oak. A cask, a cup, a swallow? One taste, and you will name your child after me."

(AGoT, chapter 54)

Ser Maynard Plumm, a knight participating in the Whitewalls tourney:

Egg: Are you kin to Lord Viserys Plumm, ser?

"Distantly," confessed Ser Maynard, a tall, thin, stoop-shouldered man with long straight flaxen hair, "though I doubt that his Lordship would admit to it. One might say that he is of the sweet Plumms, whilst I am of the sour." Plumm's cloak was as purple as his name, though frayed about the edges and badly dyed. A moonstone brooch big as a hen's egg fastened it at the shoulder.

(The Mystery Knight)

Could be just a coincidence. Are there other characters with flaxen hair?

I'm still trying to do my due-diligence on all the plum and Plumm references. I've seen the threads questioning whether the wineseller might have been sent to scare Dany without actually harming her - an attempt by Varys to motivate Khal Drogo to invade Westeros. If he is part of the plot by Varys (and Illyrio), it would be amazing to further connect him (in the literary sense) to Ser Maynard Plumm. But it also fits with my current thinking about the plum imagery if he was working for the usurper, Robert Baratheon. Or, as Ser Maynard points out, there could be two kinds of plums - sweet and sour.

Here's another line of thinking: GRRM is often throwing us a hint when he inserts a line such as, "One taste, and you will name your child after me." We know that Dany plans to name her child Rhaego. I believe there is only one Rhaegar in the Targaryen family history, and she didn't name the baby after him 100%. But there is also an Aegor, whose name is a near-match for Rhaego, with just a slight rearrangement of one letter. Is the wine seller linked to someone named Aegor? Either literally or figuratively?

[Alexis-something-Rose]

4 minutes ago, Seams said:

Could be just a coincidence. Are there other characters with flaxen hair?

Justin Massey (Jon IV, ADWD 17), I think there might be more.

[Lollygag]

Tyrion has flaxen hair.

When his bowels were empty, Tyrion slipped on a bedrobe and roughed his thin flaxen hair with his fingers, all the more to look as if he had wakened from sleep.