Jump to content
Dead headofMaelysKinslayer

Wow, I never noticed that v.16

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Clydas is of Valyrian (or maybe Dayne) descent?


 

 

He even uses "my lord" properly. Not even Dolorous Edd, a member of a branch of Tolletts whose home was similar to Craster's "Keep" don't use it properly, an example below.

 

Now look again at the last of the Clydas quotes. He slips and calls Jon by name instead of saying "my lord". Targish eyes, lordly speech, forgetting he needs his courtesies with Jon... Clydas is secretly Rhaegar confirmed! :D 

Joke aside, I've never noticed this, do we know anything of his origins?

If you're in the mood for a few crackpots, this one involves Clydas. I like it a lot because it explains why Jon is drinking so much wine in ADWD and his berserker rage strongly recalls Robert Arryn's shaking fits. I don't recall that it goes into Clydas' background, though. The author also says in the comments that he forgot about Cersei's placing a hit out on Jon when he wrote the theory.

https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2015/02/20/a-confederacy-of-stewards/

I take the Cersei angle in my thread below which was apparently poorly written on my part as no one could follow it. No Clydas there, but I think Cantuse is onto something.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145299-jon-was-poisoned-with-sweetsleep/#comment-7880633

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Lollygag said:

If you're in the mood for a few crackpots, this one involves Clydas. I like it a lot because it explains why Jon is drinking so much wine in ADWD and his berserker rage strongly recalls Robert Arryn's shaking fits. I don't recall that it goes into Clydas' background, though. The author also says in the comments that he forgot about Cersei's placing a hit out on Jon when he wrote the theory.

https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2015/02/20/a-confederacy-of-stewards/

I take the Cersei angle in my thread below which was apparently poorly written on my part as no one could follow it. No Clydas there, but I think Cantuse is onto something.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145299-jon-was-poisoned-with-sweetsleep/#comment-7880633

 

 

Interesting read, thanks!

 

 

 
Quote

 

Where the Sand Snakes were tall, Arianne took after her mother, who stood but five foot two.
 
"And what did you do, princess?" asked Spotted Sylva.
I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber knight had brought me here to have his way with me, she thought, a tall hard man with black eyes and a widow's peak. The memory made her uneasy. "I dreamed," she said, "and when the sun went down I sat cross-legged at my uncle's feet and begged him for a story."
"Prince Oberyn was full of stories." Garin had been with them as well that day; he was Arianne's milk brother, and they had been inseparable since before they learned to walk. "He told about Prince Garin, I remember, the one that I was named for."

 

 
 
Guess who is tall with black eyes and a "widow's peak"? I am starting to believe incest is not strictly a Targaryen pastime after all!
Edited by Corvo the Crow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote
He woke in darkness, shivering. The room hadgrown cold as ice. Jaime flung aside the covers with the stump of his sword hand. The fire in the hearth had died, he saw, and the window had blown open. He crossed the pitch-dark chamber to fumble with the shutters, but when he reached the window his bare foot came down in something wet. Jaime recoiled, startled for a moment. His first thought was of blood, but blood would not have been so cold.
 
It was snow, drifting through the window. 

Again, this seems to relate to Jon, and be the morning after he's stabbed. At least it's suggestive of such. 

Now for tinfoil. What if it's descriptive of what's happening to Jon after the stabbing? 

He's gone cold as ice. The fire in his heart(h) has gone out. His window (third eye) has  been blown open and snow (Jon) is drifting through it. 

And into ghost, which is more of less canon in advance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Guess who is tall with black eyes and a "widow's peak"? I am starting to believe incest is not strictly a Targaryen pastime after all!

Ah, she's just a horndog. Definitely one of my favorites, right up there with the Myrish Swamp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
This is Tommen
Quote

 

After them came the children. Little Rickon first, managing the long walk with all the dignity a three-year-old could muster. Jon had to urge him on when he stopped to visit. Close behind came Robb, in grey wool trimmed with white, the Stark colors. He had the Princess Myrcella on his arm. She was a wisp of a girl, not quite eight, her hair a cascade of golden curls under a jeweled net. Jon noticed the shy looks she gave Robb as they passed between the tables and the timid way she smiled at him. He decided she was insipid. Robb didn't even have the sense to realize how stupid she was; he was grinning like a fool.
His half sisters escorted the royal princes. Arya was paired with plump young Tommen, whose white-blond hair was longer than hers. Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar. Sansa looked radiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey's pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell's Great Hall.

 

 

And below is a description of Lyseni peopşe

Quote

The Lyseni took the table nearest to the fire and spoke quietly over cups of black tar rum, keeping their voices low so no one could overhear. But she was no one and she heard most every word. And for a time it seemed that she could see them too, through the slitted yellow eyes of the tomcat purring in her lap. One was old and one was young and one had lost an ear, but all three had the white-blond hair and smooth fair skin of Lys, where the blood of the old Freehold still ran strong.

 

Only two other characters are described as having white-blond hair; Justin Massey and Cassala Vaith. Though we don't know where did they get these traits, we know Doran's Wife is from the free cities and his vassals aren't upset about it so one of Cassala's parents may have been from Essos too and Masseys have gained it from crownlanders of Valyrian descent or  Valyrianseeds.

 

How did Tommen get this seemingly Valyrian trait while her siblings have the Lannister look, same as his parents?

 

While the genetics are usualy anything but simple, Mendelian genetics are simple. If say blonde hair gene is dominant, "B" and white-blond hair gene is recessive, "b" If this were the case then Tommen's hair genes would be "bb".

He would still need to get it from his parents, which would need to be "bb" both.

In that case, Jaime and Cersei would be Bb and the children of such parents would be; BB, Bb, Bb, bb Meaning Joffrey and Myrcella can be BB or Bb, it doesn't matter which as with mendelian genetics only the dominant trait will be seen.

But how did Jaime and Cersei get the "b" in a family full of "B"s and that has no Valyrian ancestors? Or do they have one?

Quote

"As you command." The white knight chose his words with care. "Prince Aerys … as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the … the liberties your father took during the bedding." His face reddened. "I have said too much, Your Grace. I—"

 

The scurrilous rumor that Joanna Lannister gave up her maidenhead to Prince Aerys the night of his father's coronation and enjoyed a brief reign as his paramour after he ascended the Iron Throne can safely be discounted. As Pycelle insists in his letters, Tywin Lannister would scarce have taken his cousin to wife if that had been true, "for he was ever a proud man and not one accustomed to feasting upon another man's leavings."
It has been reliably reported, however, that King Aerys took unwonted liberties with Lady Joanna's person during her bedding ceremony, to Tywin's displeasure. Not long thereafter, Queen Rhaella dismissed Joanna Lannister from her service. No reason for this was ever given, but Lady Joanna departed at once for Casterly Rock and seldom visited King's Landing thereafter.

There are rumors about Aerys and Joanna which Pycelle discredits. We can't know one way or the other as seen with Margaery.However the liberties Aerys took are true and confirmed. This doesn't have to mean Aerys used the right of first night and I believe he didn't because Tywin knows what happened as Barristan confirms. He may just have been more excessive in his japes and touches. But notice Joanna still stays in King's Landing for a while until Rhaella dismisses her and she still comes to KL, where a certain king who has taken a liking to her rules from. We can't know if she was his paramour in secret and whether if she loved her or not. Her daughter certainly took a liking to His son though so it is quite possible the mother may have loved the father. Even if she didn't love Aerys, who can say if Aerys didn't take his "right" later on with interest? Would Joanna have told Tywin or would she fear for him as he may act in a way that would get him killed and kept this a secret?

Edited by Corvo the Crow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:
 
This is Tommen
 

And below is a description of Lyseni peopşe

 

Only two other characters are described as having white-blond hair; Justin Massey and Cassala Vaith. Though we don't know where did they get these traits, we know Doran's Wife is from the free cities and his vassals aren't upset about it so one of Cassala's parents may have been from Essos too and Masseys have gained it from crownlanders of Valyrian descent or  Valyrianseeds.

 

How did Tommen get this seemingly Valyrian trait while her siblings have the Lannister look, same as his parents?

 

While the genetics are usualy anything but simple, Mendelian genetics are simple. If say blonde hair gene is dominant, "B" and white-blond hair gene is recessive, "b" If this were the case then Tommen's hair genes would be "bb".

He would still need to get it from his parents, which would need to be "bb" both.

In that case, Jaime and Cersei would be Bb and the children of such parents would be; BB, Bb, Bb, bb Meaning Joffrey and Myrcella can be BB or Bb, it doesn't matter which as with mendelian genetics only the dominant trait will be seen.

But how did Jaime and Cersei get the "b" in a family full of "B"s and that has no Valyrian ancestors? Or do they have one?

There are rumors about Aerys and Joanna which Pycelle discredits. We can't know one way or the other as seen with Margaery.However the liberties Aerys took are true and confirmed. This doesn't have to mean Aerys used the right of first night and I believe he didn't because Tywin knows what happened as Barristan confirms. He may just have been more excessive in his japes and touches. But notice Joanna still stays in King's Landing for a while until Rhaella dismisses her and she still comes to KL, where a certain king who has taken a liking to her rules from. We can't know if she was his paramour in secret and whether if she loved her or not. Her daughter certainly took a liking to His son though so it is quite possible the mother may have loved the father. Even if she didn't love Aerys, who can say if Aerys didn't take his "right" later on with interest? Would Joanna have told Tywin or would she fear for him as he may act in a way that would get him killed and kept this a secret?

Tyrion's hair is a mix of pale blonde and black. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joanna and Tywin were married in 263. Jaime and Cersei were born 3 years later. Joanna was sent away from King's Landing after her wedding, so even if Aerys took some liberties because he was a total creep, nothing would have come from it. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Tyrion's hair is a mix of pale blonde and black. 

Tyrion is a chimera and is apparently suffering from some genetic disorders, so he can also be leukistic besides.

8 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Joanna and Tywin were married in 263. Jaime and Cersei were born 3 years later. Joanna was sent away from King's Landing after her wedding, so even if Aerys took some liberties because he was a total creep, nothing would have come from it. 

 

Joanna kept visiting KL, though not many times. I believe Aerys also went to Casterly Rock a time or two so there are possibilities of encounters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Right before his beheading, Ned proclaimed Joffrey the rightful king. . . by the grace of the seven gods, whom he doesn't worship. Clever. 

Pretty awesome , isn’t it ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glass candles are swords:

Quote

Jon picked up a dagger blade, featherlight and shiny black, hiltless. Torchlight ran along its edge, a thin orange line that spoke of razor sharpness. Dragonglass. What the maesters call obsidian. (ACoK, Ch.34 Jon IV)

Quote

The candle itself was three feet tall and slender as a sword, ridged and twisted, glittering black. “Is that …?”
“… obsidian,” (AFfC, Ch.45 Samwell V)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ned doesn't talk much about his past, it is known but only now I have noticed how silent he is about it, quiet wolf indeed.

Quote
"My father was Ser Arthur's elder brother. Lady Ashara was my aunt. I never knew her, though. She threw herself into the sea from atop the Palestone Sword before I was born."
"Why would she do that?" said Arya, startled.
Ned looked wary. Maybe he was afraid that she was going to throw something at him. "Your lord father never spoke of her?" he said. "The Lady Ashara Dayne, of Starfall?"
"No. Did he know her?"
Quote

Needle wouldn't break," Arya said defiantly, but her voice betrayed her words.

"It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."
Quote

"There was one knight," said Meera, "in the year of the false spring. The Knight of the Laughing Tree, they called him. He might have been a crannogman, that one."

"Or not." Jojen's face was dappled with green shadows. "Prince Bran has heard that tale a hundred times, I'm sure."
"No," said Bran. "I haven't. And if I have it doesn't matter. Sometimes Old Nan would tell the same story she'd told before, but we never minded, if it was a good story. Old stories are like old friends, she used to say. You have to visit them from time to time."
...
Are you certain you never heard this tale before, Bran?" asked Jojen. "Your lord father never told it to you?"
 

 

Also I have noticed this

Quote
"Has my bastard ever told you how I got him?"
That he did know, to his relief. "Yes, my … m'lord. You met his mother whilst out riding and were smitten by her beauty."
"Smitten?" Bolton laughed. "Did he use that word? Why, the boy has a singer's soul … though if you believe that song, you may well be dimmer than the first Reek. Even the riding part is wrong. I was hunting a fox along the Weeping Water when I chanced upon a mill and saw a young woman washing clothes in the stream. The old miller had gotten himself a new young wife, a girl not half his age. She was a tall, willowy creature, very healthy-looking. Long legs and small firm breasts, like two ripe plums. Pretty, in a common sort of way. The moment that I set eyes on her I wanted her. Such was my due. The maesters will tell you that King Jaehaerys abolished the lord's right to the first night to appease his shrewish queen, but where the old gods rule, old customs linger. The Umbers keep the first night too, deny it as they may. Certain of the mountain clans as well, and on Skagos … well, only heart trees ever see half of what they do on Skagos.

Above is thoughts of a bastard, Ramsay, on his parents.

 

Below is thoughts of a possible bastard, Allyria, on Ned and Ashara, her would be parents if she is a bastard.

Quote
"Before Robert was king. She met your father and his brothers at Harrenhal, during the year of the false spring."
"Oh." Arya did not know what else to say. "Why did she jump in the sea, though?"
"Her heart was broken."
Sansa would have sighed and shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid. She couldn't say that to Ned, though, not about his own aunt. "Did someone break it?"
He hesitated. "Perhaps it's not my place . . ."
"Tell me."
He looked at her uncomfortably. "My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal—"

I wonder if all bastards think like this.

 

 

Edited by Corvo the Crow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, here we go again, back down the rabbit hole...

Here is the first colorful description of a changing sky in all of ASOIAF...

Quote

The cloudless sky turned a Depp purple, the color of an old bruise, then faded to black. 

Prologue, Game

Gray, purple, black. Perhaps it's just coincidence, but there is a certain crackpot theory about a certain lass of House Stark, whose colors are gray, falling for a Targaryen prince of royal blood, with deep purple eyes, and conceiving a promised hero, who takes the black. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Royce paused a moment, staring off into the distance, his face reflective. A cold wind whispered through the trees. His great sable cloak stirred behind like something half-alive.

Prologue, Game

The Old Gods were trying to warn Waymar et al....

Quote

A faint wind sighed through the godswood and the red leaves stirred and whispered. Summer bared his teeth. "You hear them, boy?" a voice asked.

... "Tell me what you meant, about hearing the gods."

Osha studied him. "You asked them and they're answering. Open your ears, listen, you'll hear."

Bran listened. "It's only the wind," he said after a moment, uncertain. "The leaves are rustling."

"Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods?"

Bran VI, Game 53

Waymar didn’t hear them, but Gared and Will did...

Quote

“There’s something wrong here,” Gared muttered.

The young knight gave him a disdainful smile. “Is there?”

“Can’t you feel it?” Gared asked. “Listen to the darkness.”

Will could feel it. Four years in the Night’s Watch, and he had never been so afraid. What was it?

Prologue, Game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sad to report that this is the first time I actually connected the dots with this tiny passage. I've read it like a million times, but I'm slow to the uptake.

Quote

He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once. (Eddard IV, AGOT 20)

I'm disappointed in myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An egg in a basket, an Easter basket...

Quote

When Gared did not answer, Royce slid gracefully from his saddle. He tied the destrier securely to a low-hanging limb, well away from the other horses, and drew his longsword from its sheath. Jewels glittered in its hilt, and the moonlight ran down the shining steel. It was a splendid weapon, castle-forged, and new-made from the look of it. Will doubted it had ever been swung in anger.
...

Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss. “Come no farther,” the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy’s. He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. ...

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.
Ser Waymar met him bravely. “Dance with me then.” He lifted his sword high over his head, defiant. His hands trembled from the weight of it, or perhaps from the cold. ...
The Other halted. Will saw its eyes; blue, deeper and bluer than any human eyes, a blue that burned like ice. They fixed on the longsword trembling on high, watched the moonlight running cold along the metal. ...

The pale sword came shivering through the air.
Ser Waymar met it with steel. When the blades met, there was no ring of metal on metal; only a high, thin sound at the edge of hearing, like an animal screaming in pain. Royce checked a second blow, and a third, then fell back a step. Another flurry of blows, and he fell back again.
...

Again and again the swords met, until Will wanted to cover his ears against the strange anguished keening of their clash. Ser Waymar was panting from the effort now, his breath steaming in the moonlight. His blade was white with frost; the Other’s danced with pale blue light.
Then Royce’s parry came a beat too late. The pale sword bit through the ringmail beneath his arm. ...

Ser Waymar Royce found his fury. “For Robert!” he shouted, and he came up snarling, lifting the frost-covered longsword with both hands and swinging it around in a flat sidearm slash with all his weight behind it. The Other’s parry was almost lazy.
When the blades touched, the steel shattered.
A scream echoed through the forest night, and the longsword shivered into a hundred brittle pieces, the shards scattering like a rain of needles. ...

He found what was left of the sword a few feet away, the end splintered and twisted like a tree struck by lightning. Will knelt, looked around warily, and snatched it up. The broken sword would be his proof.Gared would know what to make of it, and if not him, then surely that old bear Mormont or Maester Aemon. Would Gared still be waiting with the horses? He had to hurry.
Will rose. Ser Waymar Royce stood over him.
His fine clothes were a tatter, his face a ruin. A shard from his sword transfixed the blind white pupil of his left eye.
The right eye was open. The pupil burned blue. It saw.
The broken sword fell from nerveless fingers. Will closed his eyes to pray.

Prologue, Game

Apparently, the broken sword was found...

Quote

As they passed, each warrior stripped off his treasures and tossed them into one of the carts that the stewards had placed before the gate. Amber pendants, golden torques, jeweled daggers, silver brooches set with gem-stones, bracelets, rings, niellocups and golden goblets, warhorns and drinking horns, a green jade comb, a necklace of freshwater pearls … all yielded up and noted down by Bowen Marsh. One man surrendered a shirt of silver scales that had surely been made for some great lord. Another produced a broken sword with three sapphires in the hilt.

And there were queerer things: a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair, an ivory phallus, a helm made from a unicorn's head, complete with horn. How much food such things would buy in the Free Cities, Jon Snow could not begin to say.

Jon XII, Dance 58

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

An egg in a basket, an Easter basket...

Prologue, Game

Apparently, the broken sword was found...

Jon XII, Dance 58

Hmmm, so, as the free folk passed through the wall, they paid homage to Jon with their valuables (as one does to a king)... and they pay with a broken sword... hmmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×