Jump to content

Football: International Break-Up


Jordan La Cabra

Recommended Posts

You guys may not know this, but there's this sort of a curse, if you want to believe it, that comes with defeating Hajduk for the past one and half decade in the European qualifications. Almost all of the sides that defeated them ended up either relegated or near relegation in that same season. Everton just seem to be heading par for course with that :P

Shame for Vlašić though. He might have ended up as their best buy given how quickly he became a first team player, but unlike in the Croatian league, his quality isn't that far above the rest of the pack that he can influence the side enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

The most obvious deficiency in the side though, consistency aside, is up front. We probably won't look to address it any time soon, but we really need better (and more consistent) than Firmino

We won’t look to address it soon cause it’s the least of our problems. GK/Defense/Midfield all way more in need of being improved upon imo.

Firmino has been awful today though 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spurs are gathering steam now and are looking really good - solid defensively, top class GK, free scoring, great technical abilities and plenty of pace and physical strength as well. This is shaping up to be City vs Spurs for the title. That great record of Klopps against the top 6 isn't looking so good this season. His one-trick pony tactics have been found out and he has no answer for it thus far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

That great record of Klopps against the top 6 isn't looking so good this season. His one-trick pony tactics have been found out and he has no answer for it thus far.

Doesn’t really have anything to do with the tactics. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ljkeane said:

Doesn’t really have anything to do with the tactics. 

It does in the sense that his Liverpool team are playing exactly the same way as they did when they had a good record against the top 6 clubs, but now they are losing or drawing those games instead of winning or drawing. These teams must have worked out how to counteract them, if they are now beating them instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

It does in the sense that his Liverpool team are playing exactly the same way as they did when they had a good record against the top 6 clubs, but now they are losing or drawing those games instead of winning or drawing. These teams must have worked out how to counteract them, if they are now beating them instead.

4 goals conceded with shit individual errors today doesn't have anything to do with the tactics. The City game wasn't really down to being out thought tactically as such it was a combination of City being more clinical than Liverpool in their execution and the red card. Other than that Mourinho came to Anfield to play for a draw, as he always does, and we beat Arsenal so no change there.

You could argue about Klopp's tactics against the non top six sides being an issue but I don't think two games away to City and Spurs require a drastic rethink on the tactical set up (there's other things to be concerned about mind).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Doesn’t really have anything to do with the tactics. 

It sure does. As much as the fans like to shit on Lovren, Klopp and his tactics are just as much to blame, if not more. It's blatantly obvious to all and sundry that Liverpool do not have a good enough defensive unit to employ such an expansive attacking game yet Klopp seems incapable of changing resulting in the defence being left exposed time and again. His 'one-size-fits-all' tactics regardless of opponent or match situation has been found out and he has no answer to that except to do the same thing over and over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with Klopp is that despite his protestations otherwise he's always been shit at organising defences. This was mitigated somewhat at Dortmund by him having good defenders, and a solid keeper, but it still resulted in collapses like that not infrequently. But of course now that he's working with defenders that are shit, he hasn't adjusted at all to cover for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it comes down to Klopp's tactics when you think of the fact that when Dejan Lovren played for Pochetino at Southampton, he was regarded as a really good centre back. Good enough that Liverpool spent £20m on him. 

Now Lovren is playing for a much better team, yet he looks like a really bad centre back who is constantly prone to errors. Liverpool wouldn't pay £5m for him going by his performances since he signed for them. 

People can say that Southampton were set up with a defensive mindset, but that means he would have been under pressure more often. Since Lovren has gone to Liverpool he has become a worse footballer. That is down to the defensive tactics - or lack of defensive tactics - Klopp is using, and the same under Brendan Rodgers before that.

If Liverpool continue to be left exposed at the back due to their expansiveness going forwards, they won't make top four, nevermind challenge for the title this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

It sure does. As much as the fans like to shit on Lovren, Klopp and his tactics are just as much to blame, if not more. It's blatantly obvious to all and sundry that Liverpool do not have a good enough defensive unit to employ such an expansive attacking game yet Klopp seems incapable of changing resulting in the defence being left exposed time and again.

I wouldn't disagree with the way Liverpool play exposing the defence. That wasn't the issue today though, Lovren letting Kane run in behind him off a pretty harmless ball and missing a straight forward header to do it again isn't down to tactics. It wasn't the tactics which were the issue in the City game, at least until the point were the game was over as a contest anyway (Salah's a bit more clinical and Mane gets there a split second earlier it's Pep leaving Otamendi exposed against the Liverpool front 3 that's the tactical issue). 

17 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

His 'one-size-fits-all' tactics regardless of opponent or match situation has been found out and he has no answer to that except to do the same thing over and over again.

 The way Liverpool are set up to play is something of a concern. It's not against the top sides it's the issue though. Two games, one of which featured a red card, doesn't constitute being found out when it's been pretty successful otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the absence of Lallana should be underestimated. He is the crucial player in getting Klopp's system working so that the defence can get by without much organisation.

Other than that year at Southampton, Lovren has always been that player. If I remember correctly Lyon were not too unhappy to see him leave as he was so prone to errors. The difference is now he is 28 not in the early stages of his career and if he were to change permanently it would have happened by now.

Better a one dimensional manager who creates this than the one who plays for a 0-0 vs this Liverpool defence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

I wouldn't disagree with the way Liverpool play exposing the defence. That wasn't the issue today though, Lovren letting Kane run in behind him off a pretty harmless ball and missing a straight forward header to do it again isn't down to tactics. It wasn't the tactics which were the issue in the City game, at least until the point were the game was over as a contest anyway (Salah's a bit more clinical and Mane gets there a split second earlier it's Pep leaving Otamendi exposed against the Liverpool front 3 that's the tactical issue). 

 The way Liverpool are set up to play is something of a concern. It's not against the top sides it's the issue though. Two games, one of which featured a red card, doesn't constitute being found out when it's been pretty successful otherwise.

Thing is even the top sides so far (except for Arsenal) adjusted their usual tactics to counter Liverpool's attack. Both Guardiola and Poch set their teams up to hold a deeper defensive line and deny Liverpool the space to run into on the flanks and in behind. They even had one fullback play more conservatively (Aurier today and Walker until the Mane red card). This shows tactical flexibility whereas Klopp just has the one way of playing - this worked well last season but opponents have worked out how to stifle Liverpool's attack. And it's not just about top class defenders - there are plenty of teams that do not have top class defenders yet are well organised defensively. Think it is clear that Klopp is found wanting when it comes to defensive tactics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

Better a one dimensional manager who creates this than the one who plays for a 0-0 vs this Liverpool defence.

As much as I hated the way we set up against Liverpool, I'd rather have a manager who doesn't play right into the opponents hands (ala Wenger) and gets a boring nil-nil rather than a 4-0 drubbing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Both Guardiola and Poch set their teams up to hold a deeper defensive line and deny Liverpool the space to run into on the flanks and in behind. They even had one fullback play more conservatively (Aurier today and Walker until the Mane red card).

Er, no they didn't. City were getting exposed down the flanks and in behind throughout when it was 11 vs 11 and Aurier was not playing notably conservatively today, the change Spurs made today was playing both Song and Alli so they had more players flooding through when they won the ball in midfield.

Look Liverpool play in a fashion which exposes their centre backs there's no doubt about that. Against the top teams it's a pretty valid tactical choice to play aggressively and expose the defence in search of goals though and it's been very effective for Klopp over an extended period for both Liverpool and Dortmund. Losing two games doesn't change that.

Tactically the concern for Liverpool is their lack of ability to control games against weaker opposition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Er, no they didn't. City were getting exposed down the flanks and in behind throughout when it was 11 vs 11 and Aurier was not playing notably conservatively today, the change Spurs made today was playing both Song and Alli so they had more players flooding through when they won the ball in midfield.

Look Liverpool play in a fashion which exposes their centre backs there's no doubt about that. Against the top teams it's a pretty valid tactical choice to play aggressively and expose the defence in search of goals though and it's been very effective for Klopp over an extended period for both Liverpool and Dortmund. Losing two games doesn't change that.

Tactically the concern for Liverpool is their lack of ability to control games against weaker opposition.

Er, yes they did. Blatantly obvious that Walker was tucking in and only Mendy given license to get forward. Yes Salah was skinning Otamendi but City were clearly holding a deeper defensive line than they usually do and with only one FB given license to attack. Aurier most definitely did play more conservatively than he usually does - he spent most of the match in his own half keeping an eye on Salah and only occasionally pushed forward. Trippier was getting forward alot more than him.

Look, much like you (but for a different reason), I'm very happy with Klopp's one-trick pony tactics. This ensures Liverpool will struggle to finish in the top 4 which only improves United's chances of doing so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Er, yes they did. Blatantly obvious that Walker was tucking in and only Mendy given license to get forward. Yes Salah was skinning Otamendi but City were clearly holding a deeper defensive line than they usually do and with only one FB given license to attack.

Right, so this tactical change in response to finding out Liverpool's tactics wasn't actually very effective in denying Liverpool space to run in behind and down the flanks then? City may well have won the game without the red card, they were playing very well going forward, but it wasn't because they'd blunted Liverpool tactically. The game was shaping up to be an attacking shootout. Guardiola likes to change his formations a lot but he pretty consistently exposes his centre backs too.

8 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Aurier most definitely did play more conservatively than he usually does - he spent most of the match in his own half keeping an eye on Salah and only occasionally pushed forward. Trippier was getting forward alot more than him.

He's a right back playing at left wingback of course he got on the ball less than Trippier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Right, so this tactical change in response to finding out Liverpool's tactics wasn't actually very effective in denying Liverpool space to run in behind and down the flanks then? City may well have won the game without the red card, they were playing very well going forward, but it wasn't because they'd blunted Liverpool tactically. The game was shaping up to be an attacking shootout. Guardiola likes to change his formations a lot but he pretty consistently exposes his centre backs too.

Well, it was orders of magnitude more effective than what Arsenal did when they practically handed the game to Liverpool with their high line and wing-backs pushed up. Mane did not have much of an influence with Walker tucking in close to Danilo. Obviously the flaw was Otamendi not having nearly enough pace to keep up with Salah. The point though is that clearly Pep was aware of Liverpool's attacking threat and tweaked the way he usually sets up to try and stifle that.

 

3 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

He's a right back playing at left wingback of course he got on the ball less than Trippier.

Or maybe, just maybe this was a deliberate tactic by Poch to not give Salah free reign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

*rein


Klopp is not a defensive mastermind. But Jesus Christ, Lovren and Mignolet need canning. Two years ago.

Mignolet has made 13 errors leading to goals since he's been playing for Liverpool, which is three more than *any other PL player* in that timespan. Lovren can't be far behind (maybe, say, three). 

Let Ward have a go (I'm sad to say I don't think Karius is much better than Migs), let Gomez have a go at CB. If it's Gomez making the mistakes, at least there's a chance he learns from them. Plus he's quick enough to make up for the odd slip-up. Lovren and Mignolet are lost causes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...