NBA 2017 - 18: 76ers Make the Playoffs? Embiid They Will

[Proudfeet]

I don't think many people will argue that he isn't the best player currently, even if some might quibble over the definition of "best" and/or his effort level in regular season games, but being over/under rated is relative and is very easy to talk pass each other.

Anyway, I don't think anyone on this board thinks he isn't a great player other than MC, so I'm not sure what you're on about.

 

[Jaime L]

16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I guess we're just looking at it differently. It seems like you're more interested what they are today and I'm looking more at what I think I can get from them in their primes. The 2013 list feels like it has one superstar, one All-Star and three guys that will range from high end role players to fringe All-Stars. That's nothing to scoff at, but I feel like the 2014 has the potential to produce three superstars and two All-Stars.

Also, I think grading them on what they've contributed to winning right now is a little misleading. I believe all your players except Giannis went to teams that already had an established star on the roster while none my players did. That does affect their ability to win this early in their careers. 

Which is fair. I was super high on the 2014 draft class coming out and have been pretty disappointed with the entire top 10 all for different reasons. 3 years is not an insubstantial time for any of these picks to start showing they can be good, dependable NBA players. But hey, maybe this is the year.

On the plus side I did see Aaron Gordon put up a 41/14 last night while being perfect from 3 point range. The league becomes more fun if guys like that start tapping their considerable potential. 

 

[Mother Cocanuts]

5 hours ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

See, i can see where James might be losing ground as the best player in the NBA. But, when you can plug him in at PG and look probably better than you have all year it tells you just how versatile ans what a special talent he is. The man can play 1-5 on both ends of the court and hold his own at any of those positions. This talk about him being overrated has really made me watch him and see if there could be any merit to it. And, nope, i cannot find none. And i knew i wouldnt.

I think the only place you can find a glaring hole in his game is crunch time. We've had this talk here before. But, i do think he becomes a different player in those situations and it iant for the bettter. There are exceptions though, namely the 2016 Finals. 

It isn't versatility. Lebron has been a point guard masquerading as a small forward. (It's part of the reason Kyrie left.) If you've noticed, his numbers aren't different. And LeBron can't play the two -- he's not a great shooter. Most teams dare him to shoot from outside the paint. He can play the one, three, and four, but he won't play the five. (It's not his style.) His performance doesn't surprise me because even though he's a small forward in name, he has for many years been a point guard in practice.

4 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Anyway, I don't think anyone on this board thinks he isn't a great player other than MC, so I'm not sure what you're on about.

What he's on about is to bait me into an argument over LeBron's versatility. It's all good though, I do like arguing over basketball. And furthermore, you have to practice some sort of reading comprehension because I've mentioned many times that Lebron is a great player:

 

On 9/30/2017 at 9:11 PM, Mother Cocanuts said:

LeBron is overrated. That is not to say that he isn't a great player, but most of his offense is derived from his rather distinct stature and athleticism.

 

On 10/2/2017 at 11:26 AM, Mother Cocanuts said:

LeBron is a cash cow; he's a marketing scheme. He's a good player--hell, he's a great player. He's just not the best.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 10:42 AM, Mother Cocanuts said:

He is a franchise player, I've never denied that. But once again, Lebron James is overrated. It doesn't mean that he's not good; it doesn't mean that he's not great. It means that his skill set is exaggerated.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 0:44 PM, Mother Cocanuts said:

I'm saying that despite his being a great player, he's overrated.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 11:55 PM, Mother Cocanuts said:

Then you start hearing about Lebron James, a high school kid being brought forth as "the next Michael Jordan," "the second coming," "and the chosen one." Now I'm not saying that Lebron James wasn't a great player even for a high school kid, but the marketing campaign even before his draft made it pretty clear that the NBA was looking to Lebron James as their new cash cow.

I just don't believe he's the best. (And no where near as good a player as Michael Jordan.) Michael Jordan was truly a versatile player who could play all five positions. He started at the two, so we know he can play that position. In 1989, when he was moved to the point guard position, he had 15 assists. And he was getting triple doubles. And he'd have no problem playing 3-5 given his size and athleticism. Though to be fair, like LeBron, I don't think he would play the five. (It, too, is not his style.)

 

I imagine that the Lebron devotees who swear he's the best, grew up watching him play and have no real index of comparison. And then you have most Sports Media declaring him to be the best in Goebbels' fashion. I've just never bought into it because I pay attention to the details. And the details suggest despite, once again, his being a great player, LeBron James isn't the best, let alone the GOAT.

[DanteGabriel]

Omg stop already. Jordan could play all 5 positions? Invoking Josef Goebbels in a discussion about NBA greatness? Put the bottle down and sleep this one off. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

10 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Omg stop already. Jordan could play all 5 positions? Invoking Josef Goebbels in a discussion about NBA greatness? Put the bottle down and sleep this one off. 

To be fair, Goebbels and Himmler comprised 2/3rds of the greatest frontcourt the 3rd Reich had ever seen...

https://img.maximummedia.ie/joe_ie/eyJkYXRhIjoie1widXJsXCI6XCJodHRwOlxcXC9cXFwvbWVkaWEtam9lLm1heGltdW1tZWRpYS5pZS5zMy5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29tXFxcL3dwLWNvbnRlbnRcXFwvdXBsb2Fkc1xcXC8yMDEzXFxcLzA4XFxcL1NjcmVlbi1zaG90LTIwMTMtMDgtMTUtYXQtMTQuNTEuMTgucG5nXCIsXCJ3aWR0aFwiOjY0NyxcImhlaWdodFwiOjM0MCxcImRlZmF1bHRcIjpcImh0dHBzOlxcXC9cXFwvd3d3LmpvZS5pZVxcXC9hc3NldHNcXFwvaW1hZ2VzXFxcL2pvZVxcXC9uby1pbWFnZS5wbmc_dj00XCJ9IiwiaGFzaCI6Ijg5NjkyODNmMjA3ZDRiODFmNGJiYWZlNzQ0ZWYzYTRmZDE4NjQ4YzUifQ==/screen-shot-2013-08-15-at-14-51-18.png

[Weeping Sore]

Lebron isn't Jordan. The Jordan era fan should understand him as a combination of Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone, but better than any one of them. Like seriously you would have to trade me those three players in their prime to give him up. 

[Mother Cocanuts]

43 minutes ago, Weeping Sore said:

Lebron isn't Jordan. The Jordan era fan should understand him as a combination of Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone, but better than any one of them. Like seriously you would have to trade me those three players in their prime to give him up. 

Who is the him in your reference? Jordan or LeBron?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Which is fair. I was super high on the 2014 draft class coming out and have been pretty disappointed with the entire top 10 all for different reasons. 3 years is not an insubstantial time for any of these picks to start showing they can be good, dependable NBA players. But hey, maybe this is the year.

On the plus side I did see Aaron Gordon put up a 41/14 last night while being perfect from 3 point range. The league becomes more fun if guys like that start tapping their considerable potential. 

 

Yeah, I get that, but none of them were put in good situations outside of Smart, and I still don’t know how I feel about him.

As far as the Magic go, I haven’t seen them play and the sample size is way too small, but I’ve heard a lot of experts speaking glowingly about their roster. They can probably make the playoffs in the East. And speaking of the East, is this a new low point for the conference? I just looked at ESPN’s player rankings and only 4 of the top 20 players are in the East, and one of those guys is out indefinitely.

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Omg stop already. Jordan could play all 5 positions? Invoking Josef Goebbels in a discussion about NBA greatness? Put the bottle down and sleep this one off. 

Seriously.....the arguments are getting bizarrer by the day.

[Weeping Sore]

11 minutes ago, Mother Cocanuts said:

Who is the him in your reference? Jordan or LeBron?

LeBron.

He would have totally killed it in Jordan's era, too. Throw him on say the Indiana Pacers with Reggie Miller and they would have been a roadblock for the Bulls in the east.

What contemporary players would you trade for Jordan? How about (prime) Dwayne Wade and Kawhi Leonard? Think they wouldn't destroy in the early 90s?

 

 

[Mother Cocanuts]

2 minutes ago, Weeping Sore said:

LeBron.

He would have totally killed it in Jordan's era, too. Throw him on say the Indiana Pacers with Reggie Miller and they would have been a roadblock for the Bulls in the east.

I actually agree. I think LeBron would've been hailed as an all-time great if he played in the 90's. His style of play is similar to that of the 90's players.

6 minutes ago, Weeping Sore said:

What contemporary players would you trade for Jordan? How about (prime) Dwayne Wade and Kawhi Leonard? Think they wouldn't destroy in the early 90s?

Kawhi and Dwayne (prime) would definitely destroy in the 90's, but not as much as Jordan. As much as I am a fan of Dwayne Wade and Kawhi Leonard, I don't think they could match Jordan. But I do think they would've out-shined players like Barkley, Drexler, Dream, and maybe Malone.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

7 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

I don't think many people will argue that he isn't the best player currently, even if some might quibble over the definition of "best" and/or his effort level in regular season games, but being over/under rated is relative and is very easy to talk pass each other.

Anyway, I don't think anyone on this board thinks he isn't a great player other than MC, so I'm not sure what you're on about.

 

Not sure what your on about....

Im not allowed to voice an opinion?? Who are you to even worry about it? 

[Mother Cocanuts]

Just now, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Not sure what your on about....

Im not allowed to voice an opinion?? Who are you to even worry about it? 

I agree.

[Relic]

22 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Not sure what your on about....

Im not allowed to voice an opinion?? Who are you to even worry about it? 

It's just a British way of saying that your comment confused him. 

[sperry]

Also, can we talk about Pop, and how in the everliving fuck this Spurs team is good?

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

56 minutes ago, Relic said:

It's just a British way of saying that your comment confused him. 

Oh. Well, sorry then.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, sperry said:

Also, can we talk about Pop, and how in the everliving fuck this Spurs team is good?

They. Just. Never. Miss. A. Shoot.

It was insane when they were playing the Wolves. Even the ugliest shots were falling.

Also, how serious is this Kawhi injury? 

[Mother Cocanuts]

1 hour ago, sperry said:

Also, can we talk about Pop, and how in the everliving fuck this Spurs team is good?

As I've said, he's the GOAT in coaching: that includes Phil Jackson, Don Nelson, Pat Riley, Red Auerbach, etc. His teams have not only made the playoffs within the last two decades but they've been a 50+ team for 18 seasons. And that's because he's above any one single player. It was true with Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, and even Leonard. Pop in a manner of sorts is the franchise player. I have nothing but respect for him and the Spurs. If the NBA was being fair to success rather than geography, the Warriors would have faced the Spurs in the NBA Finals. And that would've been a great match up, worthy of watching.

[Relic]

3 hours ago, sperry said:

Also, can we talk about Pop, and how in the everliving fuck this Spurs team is good?

this is why you can never count out the Spurs. Pop is a basketball god. 

[briantw]

The Spurs are going to tear up teams in the regular season because they've got an amazing system and Pop gets guys to buy in, but they need a healthy Kawhi if they want to have any shot in the playoffs.

[Mother Cocanuts]

13 minutes ago, briantw said:

The Spurs are going to tear up teams in the regular season because they've got an amazing system and Pop gets guys to buy in, but they need a healthy Kawhi if they want to have any shot in the playoffs.

I agree. The value that Kawhi gives the Spurs is that he can dominate offensively especially when they're in a drought. (Kawhi's great defensively too, but Pop preaches defense and I'm sure that he would and has found fresh legs to cover Leonard's defensive assignments.) They're biggest threat outside of the Warriors is OKC, and they'll need Kawhi for those match-ups.