Inconsistencies, plot holes, and missing details in TSOTD, TRP, and TPATQ

[The Dragon Demands]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 5:05 PM, The Grey Wolf said:

You are forgiven my scaly friend.

Anyway, re Fire & B V1:

Here are the numbers we have:

The Targaryen Conquest (10K words or about 30 pages)

The Peace of the Dragon (???)

The Sons of the Dragon (17K words or about 50 pages)

Fan Title: The Glory of the Dragon (???)

The Heirs of the Dragon (17K words or about 50 pages)

The Dying of the Dragons (60K words or about 160 pages)

Aftermath-The Boy King and His Regents (Between 30-60K words or 80-160 pages since @Ran vaguely described it as being as long as the Dance)

So the total we know of is 10 + 17 + 17 + 60 + 30 or 60 for a total of 134 or 164K words/370 or 450 pages approximately, which means anywhere between 270 to 190 pages is entirely new material (Aegon I/Jaehaerys I/Pre-Conquest?) and/or expansion of existing material that may or may not have already been entirely published.

(Thanks, and those are accurate, but I already had those numbers and the video already incorporates them, I already recorded...)

[The Grey Wolf]

1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

(Thanks, and those are accurate, but I already had those numbers and the video already incorporates them, I already recorded...)

Np! Just wanted to be of help is all!

[AlaskanSandman]

On 2/28/2018 at 6:11 AM, Ran said:

Yep. Asked him directly on this and he said they were just made-up stories for the kids.

Not sure where to ask you this at, as it may be strictly from the main books. 

It is mentioned that Jaehaerys went North at sometime (Infered just the once and early in his reign), did this have to do with completion of the Kingsroad ending at the Blackgate, of which Jaehaerys is said to have visited? 

In Asos Bran tells Meera and Jojen that they closed the Nightfort 200 years ago to 299-300Ac  

and Sam tells Jon in AFFC that Alysanne and Jaehaerys came to Castle Black 200 years ago. Again, putting there visit in roughly 99-100ac, late in the reign of Jaehaerys.  Can you tell me anything further about this?

With Barth becoming Hand in 59Ac, the Kingsroad likely taking a decade to finish, fathering 13 children, and dealing with the Faith Militant (Not resolved with out Barth, so after 59ac). 

I find it hard to fully see the Kingsroad being finished before 70ac (halfway point in Jaehaerys reign.), or that Jaehaerys and Alysanne visited before it's completion. 

Having kids after the near destruction of their house seems priority too. 

[Ran]

You may find some answers in Fire and Blood.

[AlaskanSandman]

52 minutes ago, Ran said:

You may find some answers in Fire and Blood.

Just noticed a preview of the New Tree. I assume we're not allowed to discuss? If so, im dead in the water on talking on any of my threads haha

[Ran]

Sure, it can be dicussed, it's a legitimate preview. There are issues with it, however, some of which at least should be corrected by publication.

[AlaskanSandman]

12 minutes ago, Ran said:

Sure, it can be dicussed, it's a legitimate preview. There are issues with it, however, some of which at least should be corrected by publication.

Oh nice. The only issue i spotted or read about was the Tree not showing Aenys coming from a Union of Aegon and Rhaenys. 

What was the original issue in the order of Jaehaerys' children? Or is that tied to what's coming in the new book. Cause i did notice that some of the changes bumped forward Maegelle and Vaegon in the time line, possibly having to do with relations with the Faith. 

[zionius]

8 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Oh nice. The only issue i spotted or read about was the Tree not showing Aenys coming from a Union of Aegon and Rhaenys. 

What was the original issue in the order of Jaehaerys' children? Or is that tied to what's coming in the new book. Cause i did notice that some of the changes bumped forward Maegelle and Vaegon in the time line, possibly having to do with relations with the Faith. 

I made a summary.

[AlaskanSandman]

On 8/22/2018 at 8:41 AM, zionius said:

I made a summary.

@Ran Is there any changes to Alyssa Velaryon in this time, or is her info generally the same? Marries Rogar in 50ac 6 months after Jaehaerys and Alysanne wed? Meaning she couldn't have had Jocelyn any sooner than Alyssa being 45 years old since she's born in 7ac? Just curious since menopause generally sets in around 50, and after 40, women have a general 5% chance in any given month of getting pregnant. Also, Boremund is said to be older than Jocelyn. Plus im interested in Rogar marrying a woman who should be twice his senior (Rogar generation-ally falls in line with Jaehaerys, son of Alyssa. Rogar's father was of a general age with Aeny's and his father Orys of an age with Aegon), given most these Lords seem concerned about a womans fertility and this comes up with Cersei if im not mistaken.

[Ran]

You'll have to read the book to find out the answers to your questions.

[AlaskanSandman]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

You'll have to read the book to find out the answers to your questions.

Is it a secret when the L.C. position got moved to Castle Black? Its known the Nightfort is twice as old as Castle Black, but when did the switch happen and why? We hear of commanders at the Nightfort and SnowGate 300 years before the conquest going to war with each other, then united in murdering the (Unknown) Lord Commander whom im assuming was stationed at Castle Black as he wasn't able to prevent it from beginning in the first place. And why the switch to Castle Black? Especially prior to the King's Road? Or was there an older Kings Road built by the Kings of Winter? Since the book Fire and Blood dont cover that far back, and no planned history books beyond TWOIAF, is there anything you can tell me or is this Song of Ice and Fire material to be covered.

[Dukhasinov]

On 10/20/2017 at 9:10 AM, Tygett Lannister said:

They didn't have the dragon genes. While younger siblings did.

Which Aegon and Viserys are we talking about? Are we talking about Rhaenyra`s sons? Aegon the Younger did have a dragon; Stormcloud, who died at the Battle of the Gullet. Viserys had an egg that never hatched. The first "Aegon" that lived to adulthood and did not have a dragon was Aegon the Unworthy.

[Dukhasinov]

Since we`re talking about inconsistencies, the one glaring plot hole that springs to mind is from the beginning of AGoT, when Ned is concerned about appointing Jaime as Warden of the East, on the grounds that he stood to inherit the title Warden of the West from his father. Later on it is made very clear that knights of the Kingsguard forswear all rights of inheritance, so this is a non-issue. It doesn`t seem like GRRM had really fully fleshed out the role of the Kingsguard when he started the first book, or the role of the Wardens Cardinal, for that matter. We haven`t seen any evidence that the title Warden of the North/South/East/West comes with any actual power or authority. It just seems to be another prestige-enhancing title, like "Breaker of Chains," or "Lord-Reaper of Pyke."

[Corvinus85]

8 hours ago, Dukhasinov said:

Since we`re talking about inconsistencies, the one glaring plot hole that springs to mind is from the beginning of AGoT, when Ned is concerned about appointing Jaime as Warden of the East, on the grounds that he stood to inherit the title Warden of the West from his father. Later on it is made very clear that knights of the Kingsguard forswear all rights of inheritance, so this is a non-issue. It doesn`t seem like GRRM had really fully fleshed out the role of the Kingsguard when he started the first book, or the role of the Wardens Cardinal, for that matter. We haven`t seen any evidence that the title Warden of the North/South/East/West comes with any actual power or authority. It just seems to be another prestige-enhancing title, like "Breaker of Chains," or "Lord-Reaper of Pyke."

The Warden is more of an office than a title, as it doesn't come with land ownership. In peace times, it doesn't mean much, but in war, a Warden becomes military commander of the region he's supposed to be guarding. A knight of the Kingsguard can become Hand, for example, again without land ownership, but with authority over laws and military matters.

You're right that Jaime shouldn't be inheriting anything from Tywin, but the king can appoint a Warden of his choice. Wardens are associated with people inheriting the lands and title of the great houses, since as both lords paramount and being physically there, they could better exercise their authority as Wardens, too.

I would say that, yes, GRRM probably hadn't fleshed out the role of the Kingsguard as he was writing AGOT, but at the same time you could explain Ned's thinking. Ned doesn't like the Lannisters, as he (correctly) sees them as consistent power grabbers, and probably thinks it wouldn't be past them to pull a stunt like this. His knowledge of Jaime is a famous knight, who murdered his king and dared sit on the Iron Throne. So Ned only sees Jaime as a conniving, ambitious man willing and capable of grasping these titles.

[Dukhasinov]

6 hours ago, Corvinus said:

The Warden is more of an office than a title, as it doesn't come with land ownership. In peace times, it doesn't mean much, but in war, a Warden becomes military commander of the region he's supposed to be guarding. A knight of the Kingsguard can become Hand, for example, again without land ownership, but with authority over laws and military matters.

 

I have a feeling that GRRM would like to ret-con the whole "Wardens Cardinal" out of existence. These offices aren`t mentioned at all in TWOIAF or FaB. I don`t see how the title has any meaning in war, either. Does Ned Stark`s title of Warden of the North give him military authority over anyone that is not already his vassal? Does a Warden have any authority to raise armies beyond the authority he already has as a Lord calling his banners? Martin must have initially decided that is was an important and powerful title, or else Robert would not have pissed off the Vale by withholding the title from Robert Arynn. But then it looks like he never got around to really defining what that power entailed as the years and book rolled by, and now the titles are the plot equivalent of the appendix.