The Dayne Heir(ess)- Daenerys

[Banner Without Brothers]

4 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

To a man that just killed her brother at the least, if not the man who actually broke her heart as some on here feel. 

Dany being Lyanna's would make sense for the promise, i agree. The problem i have, is Eddards lack of interest in her life beyond protecting her this one known time. If she was indeed of his blood, he would have done more, like he did for Jon. Just my opinion though

What could he have done? Like with Arys and Myrcella he could have come to the same realisation. That she is safest if no one knows just where she is. If he'd made a point of keeping track of her it may have put her in more danger.

(I agree with skeletons on the B+A=J R+L=J but I also don't mind the theory that Jon and Dany are twins)

[AlaskanSandman]

35 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I don't bother watching Order of the Green Hands, because I have read enough absurd things attributed to them that I know they are silly people. Rhaegar is not Mance. There is just no way that's true.

I don't understand your point about the story ending in peace being incompatible with R+L=D. PJ himself has never taken a shot at explaining the ultimate role of Jon and/or Dany, but I have specifically done so in my COTF master plan theory. Basically, I think the weirnet, acting as a master puppeteer and a sort of primitive genetic engineer, caused the births of Jon and Dany on purpose because the 2 sets of parents (B+A and R+L) had special genes necessary for its grand plan. And now the weirnet is building up Jon and Dany to be the ones to lead mankind to war against the Others. My best guess for the weirnet's motivations is that it is ultimately trying to create a new dynasty of incestuous super powerful dragon lords/wargs with Jon and Dany starting the dynasty. And I think that something about their powerful genes will also make their dynasty vulnerable to being telepathically enslaved by the weirnet, but particularly by the powers of Bran, who the weirnet is trying to absorb into itself like it did with Bloodraven and all the other greenseers of the past. So basically, the weirnet wants to enslave humanity, and the best way to do that is to create a new dynasty with absolute power (true absolute power maintained by dragons and skinchanging abilities) and then enslave the people in that dynastic family, giving the weirnet absolute power over basically everyone (at least Westeros and Essos to start). BUT, I think Bran is going to sabotage this master plan and (possibly) destroy the weirnet, and with the help of Jon forge a peace deal between humans and the Others. But that doesn't make the war irrelevant, and I do think the Others will fight humans for at least a little while before any peace deal is made.

And for the record, I would be fine with the theory that R+L=J and B+A=D, but then Dany would be the wrong age. I am also fine with the traditional R+L=J and Dany=Dany, but then I have no idea what the whole point of the Brandon+Ashara relationship was.

Im definitely gonna have to read this when i get a chance!  

As far as Preston, no he doesn't directly link Dany to the peace, but still feels it will end in peace, with out providing a scenario for this. 

Peace it self isn't incompatible, sorry if i didn't explain that proper. Jon leading humanity in a fight against the Others to an ultimate victory of swords with his magic sword by his side as Dany rains down with dragons and the two get married and live happily ever after restoring the Targaryen rule of Westeros. This is the narrative i dont buy. 

My problem with Preston's suggestion of peace isn't the notion of it, but the steps of how the Three Heads of the Dragon and Azor Ahai, are meant to bring this peace, among other things. And the lack of a probable scenario for how Dany and Jon full fill these story aspects while wrapping the story into peace between the two sides.

Exp. 

Quote

 

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night

Though the Citadel has long sought to learn the manner by which it may predict the length and change of seasons, all efforts have been confounded. Septon Barth appeared to argue, in a fragmentary treatise, that the inconstancy of the seasons was a matter of magical art rather than trustworthy knowledge. Maester Nicol's The Measure of the Days—otherwise a laudable work containing much of use—seems influenced by this argument. Based upon his work on the movement of stars in the firmament, Nicol argues unconvincingly that the seasons might once have been of a regular length, determined solely by the way in which the globe faces the sun in its heavenly course. The notion behind it seems true enough—that the lengthening and shortening of days, if more regular, would have led to more regular seasons—but he could find no evidence that such was ever the case, beyond the most ancient of tales.

 

The story isn't complete, untill the season's go back to normal. That requires the death of what ever magic caused it all, whether its a person, or simply the powers of both sides.

walrus-men-and-antler-men-the-old-way-and-the-new/

the-og-dance/

the-grey-king-ygg-and-naggas-living-fire/

end-game-Magic explained

dawn-valyrian-steel-the-black-white-trees/

These things are not unrelated.

Edit- I know how Maester Nicol feels lol

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

What could he have done? Like with Arys and Myrcella he could have come to the same realisation. That she is safest if no one knows just where she is. If he'd made a point of keeping track of her it may have put her in more danger.

(I agree with skeletons on the B+A=J R+L=J but I also don't mind the theory that Jon and Dany are twins)

Could've kept better tabs on her and sent secret aid to her when they were forced to wander Essos.

[Banner Without Brothers]

3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Could've kept better tabs on her and sent secret aid to her when they were forced to wander Essos.

And when he gets caught? When Robert finds out. Then he destroys himself his family and Dany. Imagine you're Robert and you find your most powerful vassal is sending aid to the major claimants to his throne. It would be war. Much safer if no one knows where she is including Ned.

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Banner Without Brothers said:

And when he gets caught? When Robert finds out. Then he destroys himself his family and Dany. Imagine you're Robert and you find your most powerful vassal is sending aid to the major claimants to his throne. It would be war. Much safer if no one knows where she is including Ned.

Possibly, unless you have some loyal bad ass smart tactician under you like Wyman Manderly who is fiercely loyal to House Stark and pointed out in these threads is qualified for pretty much every position on the small council. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Azor Ahai tempers his sword in this order

• Water- Ice? Others?
• A Lion- Lion of Night? Cat's Eye? Children of the Forest?
• Nissa Nissa- His wife, his love, his sacrifice for humanity.

[Banner Without Brothers]

3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Possibly, unless you have some loyal bad ass smart tactician under you like Wyman Manderly who is fiercely loyal to House Stark and pointed out in these threads is qualified for pretty much every position on the small council. 

Haha can't argue with that. Manderly could have pulled it off. I wonder if Ned knew what sort of stuff Manderly was capable of. Anyway it is a broken promise. I suspect Ned was probably hoping he could have done more for her.

[AlaskanSandman]

1 minute ago, Banner Without Brothers said:

Haha can't argue with that. Manderly could have pulled it off. I wonder if Ned knew what sort of stuff Manderly was capable of. Anyway it is a broken promise. I suspect Ned was probably hoping he could have done more for her.

Maybe we're missing something both? Lord to fat to ride a horse? Darry, described as a great bear of a man, when did Manderly get so large? 

 

[Northern_Star]

oh I see, Daynearis! So obvious!

or maybe its"daynearys" So Arys must be the father...

[AlaskanSandman]

Just now, Northern_Star said:

oh I see, Daynearis! So obvious!

Its a clever Homophone isn't it? haha its also an anagram for Ser Dayne  I like to think was a a tribute from Ashara to her fallen brother the Knight Ser Arthur Dayne

[AlaskanSandman]

Kind of funny once you realize it. Every time you hear her name, it's hard not to hear

[AlaskanSandman]

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VIII

"They are dragons, Quentyn." Dany stood on her toes and kissed him lightly, once on each cheek. "And so am I."

The young prince swallowed. "I … I have the blood of the dragon in me as well, Your Grace. I can trace my lineage back to the first Daenerys, the Targaryen princess who was sister to King Daeron the Good and wife to the Prince of Dorne. He built the Water Gardens for her."

"The Water Gardens?" She knew little and less of Dorne or its history, if truth be told.

I wonder why that is.

[AlaskanSandman]

30 minutes ago, Northern_Star said:

oh I see, Daynearis! So obvious!

or maybe its"daynearys" So Arys must be the father...

Ha!!! I never noticed that part!!!

jon-dany-true-identities-updating/

My original try at this theory included Aerys as a possible father given the rape scenario.

Maegor has secret passages into the Maegor's Holdfast. So any one could've been behind those doors when Jamie is at guard. Further, Jamie never makes eye verification that Rhaella was beat and bruised and simply had heard it from the hand maidens. Who could have fed him this information. 

Next we have differing accounts from Jamie on Rhaella's departure from K.L. If they're both remembering correctly, then Rhaella left at night and some one else left in the morning. Jamie again never makes eye verification of the person as they are cloaked and hooded. Just assumes it's her.

Ashara Dayne may have been raped by Aerys. After having been spurned by Rhaegar at the Tourney of Harrenhal, the Targaryen baby she sought was given to her by Aerys. As Joffery say's to Sansa regarding Lannister babies, doesnt matter really which Lannister gets her with child. 

So Eddard, who had spent a night with her at Harrenhal and had loved her, went to Starfall seeking her. When he arrived, House Dayne informed them that she wasn't there. Eddard puts two and two together and realizes that Stannis is launching an assault of Dragonstone and that he needs to get Ashara Dayne out of Dragonstone. 

He then sends 5 loyal Northmen to retrieve her, yet she died at child birth along with Rhaella and her child. The men break in and take the only baby they find in the Nursery and grab Viserys and book it. Some or most die trying to get out. Viserys may never have known that his real sister had died in birth, only that his mother had.

Edit- Or they never got Viserys out, maybe Darry got Viserys out. Thus, Dany spent some portion of her child hood apart before being joined to him

[AlaskanSandman]

I must say that Eddard failing to protect Dany (a promise to House Dayne) and failing to tell Jon the truth about Rhaegar and Lyanna, could be the plural "promises, broken".

[AlaskanSandman]

So this child of Dany and Jon's, this "Never born" child born to a fire wight (undead), is the soulless vessel the Great Other is seeking. This child of Dan'y that is "The Stallion who'll mount the World". This is when Jon must sacrifice his love for the good of man kind, to undo Azor Ahai/The Night's King and the magic of the world. 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

To a man that just killed her brother at the least, if not the man who actually broke her heart as some on here feel. 

Dany being Lyanna's would make sense for the promise, i agree. The problem i have, is Eddards lack of interest in her life beyond protecting her this one known time. If she was indeed of his blood, he would have done more, like he did for Jon. Just my opinion though

I do think he would have done more, but it is also possible that he handed off responsibility to other people, knowing there wasn't much he could do himself. For instance, we know that Jon Arryn actively spoke out against murdering Dany while he was Hand. We also know that Ned stopped at KL after the ToJ and reconciled with Robert over their shared grief at the death of Lyanna (at least that is the implication). It is possible that Ned spoke with Jon Arryn and said make sure you protect Dany from Robert or something like that. And then when Ned became Hand, he too actively spoke out against murdering Dany. Or he may have just made Ashara promise to protect Dany in exchange for promising to protect Jon. And it is possible that Ashara is Quaithe and has been sending Dany dreams this whole time and guiding her along her journey. I don't buy the whole "Ashara committed suicide and her body was never found" story, and there are only a couple characters who she could be secretly. Quaithe conveniently wears a mask, concealing her identity from anyone who would know her face.

Im definitely gonna have to read this when i get a chance!  

As far as Preston, no he doesn't directly link Dany to the peace, but still feels it will end in peace, with out providing a scenario for this. 

Peace it self isn't incompatible, sorry if i didn't explain that proper. Jon leading humanity in a fight against the Others to an ultimate victory of swords with his magic sword by his side as Dany rains down with dragons and the two get married and live happily ever after restoring the Targaryen rule of Westeros. This is the narrative i dont buy. 

My problem with Preston's suggestion of peace isn't the notion of it, but the steps of how the Three Heads of the Dragon and Azor Ahai, are meant to bring this peace, among other things. And the lack of a probable scenario for how Dany and Jon full fill these story aspects while wrapping the story into peace between the two sides.

Exp. 

The story isn't complete, untill the season's go back to normal. That requires the death of what ever magic caused it all, whether its a person, or simply the powers of both sides.

walrus-men-and-antler-men-the-old-way-and-the-new/

the-og-dance/

the-grey-king-ygg-and-naggas-living-fire/

end-game-Magic explained

dawn-valyrian-steel-the-black-white-trees/

These things are not unrelated.

Edit- I know how Maester Nicol feels lol

I agree. GRRM will almost definitely not fulfill the standard fantasy narrative that many people expect of Jon and Dany uniting to defeat the evil Others and living happily ever after. I also agree that I think the seasons will return to normal in the end.

As for what PJ thinks, and I somewhat agree with him which I will elaborate on in a moment, as far as I can tell PJ basically thinks that all prophecy is bullshit. There is no Azor Ahai Reborn, and so having someone emerge as an AAR character is not necessary for the story and will not happen. The only thing that really matters in the context of prophecy being bullshit is what the people of Westeros and Essos believe to be true. Or in the words of Varys: Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.

My personal take on it, which I described in my master plan theory, is that the weirnet is actively taking advantage of prophecies, the AAR prophecy in particular, to manipulate mankind into war against the Others. It may even be the case that the weirnet created the AAR prophecy in the first place as part of its plan, though that point is definitely up for debate in my mind and also not necessary as these sorts of prophecies of saviors returning tend to occur naturally in human cultures throughout history (like the foretold second coming of Jesus). So basically, Dany will be proclaimed to be AAR in Essos by Benerro and other Red God followers, and she will also be proclaimed to be TSWMTW by the dosh khaleen which is basically the dothraki version of the AAR prophecy. And at the same time, Jon will be proclaimed to be AAR by Mel and maybe the BwB and the various Red God followers in Westeros (whose numbers have been increasing lately). At first this may set up the respective followers of Dany and Jon to be antagonistic toward each other, but ultimately I think the two will team up/form an alliance through marriage and all of the Red God followers will be satisfied. 

On a side note - there is also the question of the Sword of the Morning and Dawn and how that fits into the upcoming narrative. I'm really not sure what the purpose of Dawn will be. Mayhaps someone with the right genes can use it to fight Others and it is for some reason ultra powerful against them. Obviously in ADWD Sam and Jon learn that the Others could not withstand "dragonsteel" which they immediately equate to Valyrian steel. They are probably correct and I assume the effect would be similar to that of dragon glass. But if that's true I'm not sure what the additional advantage of Dawn is supposed to be. Obviously the legend of Lightbringer describes having a sword that is literally on fire and sets enemies on fire, which would be helpful against the wights. But we have already seen Beric light a sword on fire using blood magic in ASOS, and I don't think that was even Valyrian steel, so again I'm not sure what advantage Dawn will offer. We shall see.

Anyways... regardless of which parentage theory turns out to be correct, it is a pretty safe bet that both Jon and Dany have some significant amount of Dayne blood in them from either Dyanna Dayne (the ancestor of Rhaegar and of Dany if Dany is really the original Dany) or Ashara. So they are both potential candidates for being the Sword of the Morning. And just to go full crackpot for a second (as if I haven't been doing that already ), I subscribe to PJ's "Genetics of Dragons and War" theory about dragon-riding/hatching genes being X chromosome-linked. It may be that the Daynes were an original carrier of such a gene like the Valyrian royal families (being 10,000 years old and possibly descended from AA or something along those lines), they may be semi-incestuous (constantly marrying their own cousins generation after generation) to keep the gene in the family, they may have some sort of simple test to see if a particular person is carrying the gene, and the Sword of the Morning may just be a capable Dayne warrior with that gene, because they have ancient knowledge of prophecies and know that the gene is necessary for the Sword of the Morning to have for some reason. That would explain why the Sword of the Morning is not the Lord of Starfall, as the Lord would not necessarily carry the gene. As for what the test may be, it could be something as simple as testing to see if a person is immune to disease as Dany claims herself to be immune to common diseases.

[LynnS]

17 hours ago, Jamie Roberts said:

Thanks for saying that!  I used to roll my eyes when I would see it, lol.

When the theory starts to incorporate harlequin romance, I too roll my eyes.

[maudisdottir]

6 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Kind of funny once you realize it. Every time you hear her name, it's hard not to hear

Not really. I pronounce it Da-NAIR-ys, or more like D'Nair-ys, and never once has her name conjured up a connection to House Dayne. Still doesn't. They're completely different sounds and besides, she was named after a Targaryen princess. Was Daenys the Dreamer also a secret Dayne? What about Queen Daenaera Velaryon, was she another Dayne bastard?

[Noel E Mahc]

23 minutes ago, LynnS said:

When the theory starts to incorporate harlequin romance, I too roll my eyes.

Same here. 

[AlaskanSandman]

When peoples theories require real world people to lie to people they do business with, just to make their theory possible, i too roll my eyes.