The Dayne Heir(ess)- Daenerys

[AlaskanSandman]

56 minutes ago, maudisdottir said:

Not really. I pronounce it Da-NAIR-ys, or more like D'Nair-ys, and never once has her name conjured up a connection to House Dayne. Still doesn't. They're completely different sounds and besides, she was named after a Targaryen princess. Was Daenys the Dreamer also a secret Dayne? What about Queen Daenaera Velaryon, was she another Dayne bastard?

How would any of those be close to a homophone? and big deal, you pronounce it different. I suppose the way you pronounce it must be the right way, right? Not that that matter's given that none of the other names you brought up are even close sounding to Daenerys or Dayne Heir (ess). I pronounce it Day-nair-ess. What's your point? These kinda of arguments are all fun to spin the wheels but again are just senseless as none of you put forth your own threads and ideas, and the ones you picky back on are based on little and have no impact on the story given the other pieces you all like to leave out. Like the promise. Irregardless, answering these to be kind is that and nothing more. My thread is in support of an idea regarding Daenerys, if people wanna discuss Jon's parentage, they can find a Jon thread, cause its off topic.

[LynnS]

16 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

When peoples theories require real world people to lie to people they do business, just to make their theory possible, i too roll my eyes.

Let me ask you:  What was the purpose of Summerhall? What was Aerys doing there with his pyromancers, alchemists and wildfire?

He was trying to hatch dragon eggs and failed.  This is the Musgrave Ritual that the Targs no longer understand.  Why does Rhaegar spend so much time at Summerhall alone with his harp?  At one time, he is certain that he is the PwiP and then changes his mind.  He has studied the prophecies but perhaps found his answer at Summerhall? I suspect he went to the source the of prophecy... the Ghost of High Heart who exchanges dreams for songs.  I think she told him that Aegon would be the PwiP, the one to restore the realm to peace, prosperity and justice and that he needed one more.  The one who could wake dragons from stone.  That turns out to be Dany.  In my view of things; Dany is Rhaegar's daughter.  Since Rhaegar was born at Summerhall, which egg do you think was his egg?  The black egg now in Dany's possession? When Dany wakes the dragon, the black dragon sings to her.     That has Rhaegar written all over it.   Is it coincidence that Dany dreams of Rhaegar in his black armor, then she then wears his armor and transforms in the Black Dragon wearing his black armor?

Whatever Rhaegar knew about Lyanna, the reason why he 'looked at her twice'; I doubt it had anything to do with kidnapping and fathering a son on her.   The crown of roses means something else, something specific to the Stark bloodline and the death of kings.  The Starks have their own Musgrave Ritual they no longer understand.

[AlaskanSandman]

7 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Let me ask you:  What was the purpose of Summerhall? What was Aerys doing there with his pyromancers, alchemists and wildfire?

He was trying to hatch dragon eggs and failed.  This is the Musgrave Ritual that the Targs no longer understand.  Why does Rhaegar spend so much time at Summerhall alone with his harp?  At one time, he is certain that he is the PwiP and then changes his mind.  He has studied the prophecies but perhaps found his answer at Summerhall? I suspect he went to the source the of prophecy... the Ghost of High Heart who exchanges dreams for songs.  I think she told him that Aegon would be the PwiP, the one to restore the realm to peace, prosperity and justice and that he needed one more.  The one who could wake dragons from stone.  That turns out to be Dany.  In my view of things; Dany is Rhaegar's daughter.  Since Rhaegar was born at Summerhall, which egg do you think was his egg?  The black egg now in Dany's possession? When Dany wakes the dragon, the black dragon sings to her.     That has Rhaegar written all over it.   Is it coincidence that Dany dreams of Rhaegar in his black armor, then she then wears his armor and transforms in the Black Dragon wearing his black armor?

Whatever Rhaegar knew about Lyanna, the reason why he 'looked at her twice'; I doubt it had anything to do with kidnapping and fathering a son on her.   The crown of roses means something else, something specific to the Stark bloodline and the death of kings.

So where do we differ? I get the feeling you have a theory idea of your own? One maybe you wrote up that i could check out and discuss with you under your thread? Im genuinely interested  I can tell it at least has to do with Lyanna and Rhaegar having Dany. 

Im totally gonna disagree on Jon though, just to be upfront. Cause again, it requires real world people to lie to their business partners, and i draw a line between the books and fantasy and the Real World.

[LynnS]

19 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

So where do we differ? I get the feeling you have a theory idea of your own? One maybe you wrote up that i could check out and discuss with you under your thread? Im genuinely interested  I can tell it at least has to do with Lyanna and Rhaegar having Dany. 

Im totally gonna disagree on Jon though, just to be upfront. Cause again, it requires real world people to lie to their business partners, and i draw a line between the books and fantasy and the Real World.

I don't feel any need to write up any theories or try to convince anyone about anything.  It makes more sense to me that Dany is Rhaegar's and Ashera's.  Rhaegar is speaking to someone in the room with Elia and his newborn.  That is most likely Ashera, a lady in waiting who would be present to assist Elia in childbirth.  Dany dreams of the kings holding the pale sword in her wake the dragon dream.  That's a pointer to the dawn sword and Ashera Dayne.  Barristan Selmy says that Dany looks like Ashera's daughter and he would know to make that comparison.  This means that Dany is older than we have told and her official story has some holes. That would also mean that Jon is older than we have been told by Eddard Nigma.  To wake dragons from stone; Rhaegar needs someone on the firey side of the equation, someone to be the mother of dragons and Jon isn't it. 

. 

 

[AlaskanSandman]

16 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I don't feel any need to write up any theories or try to convince anyone about anything.  It makes more sense to me that Dany is Rhaegar's and Ashera's.  Rhaegar is speaking to someone in the room with Elia and his newborn.  That is most likely Ashera, a lady in waiting who would be present to assist Elia in childbirth.  Dany dreams of the kings holding the pale sword in her wake the dragon dream.  That's a pointer to the dawn sword and Ashera Dayne.  Barristan Selmy says that Dany looks like Ashera's daughter and he would know to make that comparison.  This means that Dany is older than we have told and her official story has some holes. That would also mean that Jon is older than we have been told by Eddard Nigma.  To wake dragons from stone; Rhaegar needs someone on the firey side of the equation, someone to be the mother of dragons and Jon isn't it. 

. 

 

This agrees with everything i also think about Dany. 

[AlaskanSandman]

Also, i dont mean to sound dismissive of peoples differing ideas and actually enjoy discussing them. What i dont so much enjoy is the same people ive talked to and disagreed with multiple times before trying to drag me down their rabbit hole repeatedly trying to convince me of their ideas. Its like having that man looking septa from the show coming around banging her lil bell with her man hands like it was a dead horse they're trying to revive. For that, id rather they just took the time and effort to write up their own ideas and let people come to them rather than banging their bell repeatedly. 

[AlaskanSandman]

40 minutes ago, LynnS said:

 

The only reason i took the time to write up any thread at all regarding the parentage of Dany is that it's important to my end game theory about her kid and the role of "the Sword of the Morning" and Azor Ahai legend. Her parentage is also important for bringing the dragons back into the world. They were not brought back to be used against the Great Other though, they are his creation. The Great Other, is Garth, the flaming stag. The baby Dany is prophesied to have will be with Jon, but this child again, is what the Great Other wants. The prophecy is a lie or greatly misunderstood, and the Great Other is likely sending visions and dreams of his own. IMO

[Corvo the Crow]

While not exactly what I was looking for, here's a somewhat relevant SoSpakeMartin

 

Quote

5. Since all of their mothers died, who gave Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen and Tyrion Lannister their names?

Mothers can name a child before birth, or during, or after, even while they are dying. Dany was most like named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, Jon by Ned.

 

What I was looking for is Danaerys being confirmed to born in dragonstone nine months after their flight. Would appreciate if anyone posts that.

[LynnS]

7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

The only reason i took the time to write up any thread at all regarding the parentage of Dany is that it's important to my end game theory about her kid and the role of "the Sword of the Morning" and Azor Ahai legend. Her parentage is also important for bringing the dragons back into the world. They were not brought back to be used against the Great Other though, they are his creation. The Great Other, is Garth, the flaming stag. The baby Dany is prophesied to have will be with Jon, but this child again, is what the Great Other wants. The prophecy is a lie or greatly misunderstood, and the Great Other is likely sending visions and dreams of his own. IMO

I agree, the prophecies and anyone's understanding of them; drive much of the speculation on parentage.  I don't think we understand MMD's riddle.  I think it is a vision of the past:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

"When will he be as he was?" Dany demanded.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.

MMD doesn't answer the intent of the question - when will Drogo be normal and alive again.  She answers a question about the past.

"when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east":  when the sun runs backwards through it's normal course; when Dany sees a vision of the past.

Dany has yet to pass beneath the shadow of the Mother of Mountains and touch the light.  I expect this is when we will get some answers about MMD's riddle.

[Tygett Lannister]

On 10/25/2017 at 8:19 PM, Tygett Lannister said:

Lemon trees don't grow in Bravos though

 

[LynnS]

7 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Also, i dont mean to sound dismissive of peoples differing ideas and actually enjoy discussing them. What i dont so much enjoy is the same people ive talked to and disagreed with multiple times before trying to drag me down their rabbit hole repeatedly trying to convince me of their ideas. Its like having that man looking septa from the show coming around banging her lil bell with her man hands like it was a dead horse they're trying to revive. For that, id rather they just took the time and effort to write up their own ideas and let people come to them rather than banging their bell repeatedly. 

Oh, I agree.  I prefer the less traveled path at this point. 

[maudisdottir]

11 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

My thread is in support of an idea regarding Daenerys, if people wanna discuss Jon's parentage, they can find a Jon thread, cause its off topic.

I'm not saying anything about Jon. I've already clearly stated I believe R+L=Jon, A+R=Dany (Aerys+Rhaella, not Ashara+Rhaegar), and B+A=stillborn baby/some child not particularly crucial to the current story. The only reason I keep arguing for Brandon and Ashara is because you claim she had a child with Rhaegar, and I don't believe that from reading the books. To me, the clues point to Ashara hooking up with Brandon, and Ned being the cover for his brother's womanising. The only reason Jon is in the mix is because he's Rhaegar's son (and you're claiming that Dany is Rhaegar's daughter), whereas I don't believe Rhaegar had any other children besides his two with Elia, and then Jon with Lyanna.

You're claiming the books are massively misleading us about Dany, and I'm arguing that they're not. That's the crux of it. This isn't just about a lemon tree and a different childhood memory, you're claiming that everyone is lying, including to themselves, throughout five books.

[AlaskanSandman]

11 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

While not exactly what I was looking for, here's a somewhat relevant SoSpakeMartin

 

 

What I was looking for is Danaerys being confirmed to born in dragonstone nine months after their flight. Would appreciate if anyone posts that.

To my understanding, this is something Dany believes due to Viserys telling her such. Which does give room for the time debates people bring forth

[AlaskanSandman]

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

I agree, the prophecies and anyone's understanding of them; drive much of the speculation on parentage.  I don't think we understand MMD's riddle.  I think it is a vision of the past:

MMD doesn't answer the intent of the question - when will Drogo be normal and alive again.  She answers a question about the past.

"when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east":  when the sun runs backwards through it's normal course; when Dany sees a vision of the past.

Dany has yet to pass beneath the shadow of the Mother of Mountains and touch the light.  I expect this is when we will get some answers about MMD's riddle.

Well all the listed things above have happened. Dany notes the bricks crumbling to dust and blowing in the wind with the Pyramids (mountains), Quentyn (The sun's son) Rose in the west and set (died) in the east, The Dothraki sea is dry, and her womb has quickened again in the Dothraki Sea. 

[AlaskanSandman]

8 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

 

Yea Martin's comments on this lead me to think they dont belong there too

[AlaskanSandman]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

Oh, I agree.  I prefer the less traveled path at this point. 

Agreed. 

Plus it's just a matter of over insistence. I get when people express their ideas, but when they seem discontent untill they've convinced every one of the errors of their ways, as dictated by them.  That's the point where its gets a lil meh hahah Im not so much about trying to jump in on every theory to correct people or lead them to my thoughts, or convince any one. I simply was talked into coming on here to share ideas, and read other's when they post them. I've found its easier to just do a search for content your interested in rather than debating with people of opposing views. The Jon stuff i've read on my own. Though @Ralphis Baratheon was able to make an well put argument with out having to be petulant, rude, or condescending, it's just off topic as this post isn't about justifying Jon's parentage. I did enjoy his thoughts and conduct though.  

[AlaskanSandman]

1 hour ago, maudisdottir said:

I'm not saying anything about Jon. I've already clearly stated I believe R+L=Jon, A+R=Dany (Aerys+Rhaella, not Ashara+Rhaegar), and B+A=stillborn baby/some child not particularly crucial to the current story. The only reason I keep arguing for Brandon and Ashara is because you claim she had a child with Rhaegar, and I don't believe that from reading the books. To me, the clues point to Ashara hooking up with Brandon, and Ned being the cover for his brother's womanising. The only reason Jon is in the mix is because he's Rhaegar's son (and you're claiming that Dany is Rhaegar's daughter), whereas I don't believe Rhaegar had any other children besides his two with Elia, and then Jon with Lyanna.

You're claiming the books are massively misleading us about Dany, and I'm arguing that they're not. That's the crux of it. This isn't just about a lemon tree and a different childhood memory, you're claiming that everyone is lying, including to themselves, throughout five books.

Well i can get some of that for sure, its just too derailing and leads into a B+A theory that i dont believe in, and again is still of topic. 

I feel that Ashara is Dany's mother. The most likely candidate was the man i feel she originally wanted at Harrenhal, who drove her into the arms of Stark. 

Originally i put forth two options in Aerys or Rhaegar, but felt that it clouded the point by providing two options. Either way, she is half Targ and half Dayne. Doesn't matter that she's illegitimate, Rhaegar wasn't looking for a heir to the throne, he had that in Aegon. He was searching for a daughter. 

Aerys is still an option IMO and as some one pointed out in here already, Daenerys could also be thought of as Dayne-Aerys.  Which, if we we're flowing to a track, you could. Which could be a hint at not just her mom, but her dad too. 

Jon is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna. 

Dany is who she thinks, or the child of Ashara and a Targ. That's my final thoughts, and have yet to be changed by anything yet brought up. 

I dont claim any one is lying really. Who?\

Stannis? He never saw the babe and is going off hear say. So is any one else during the war. That's fact. Not opinion.

Viserys? Maybe, maybe not, as i discussed in hear, he may not have known of the switch. 

Who else am i saying is lying to them selves? Eddard? How? Other than the  blatant lie about Wylla and Jon? I also think ive shown enough with the quotes to show that Eddard only ever cared about protecting the children. His only children are by Cat and safe though, hes protecting other peoples babies. 

My theory also accounts for "promises" plural and account for Neds honor, and House Dayne mysterious respect of Eddard.

[AlaskanSandman]

Though it does make me curious what ever became of Rhaella's body. Was that ever mentioned?

[AlaskanSandman]

Or Aerys or Rhaegar, or Aegon and Rhaenys.... What did Robert do with them? Some how i doubt he honored them with a Valyrian pyre and funeral.

[AlaskanSandman]

Never mind, Martin say's Rhaegar some how got a cremation. 

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2997