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Why do people hate Sansa?


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2 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

What are you trying to say? (Not a dick question)

Sansa has other options in House Royce she's been actively choosing Petyr for a while.  But the text is clear about her feelings on SweetRobin her kin.

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59 minutes ago, Darksnider05 said:

Sansa has other options in House Royce she's been actively choosing Petyr for a while.  But the text is clear about her feelings on SweetRobin her kin.

And I thought she didn’t want to marry him, since it’s Joffrey all over again.

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I have mulled this question over and looked at it from another angle.  Every person in the story is open to criticism.  Nobody is perfect.  Readers will dislike those who have flaws they don't like.  It is no more complicated than that.   The siblings are very different and it is easy to see why the folks who like one sister will dislike the other.   I will also say that many fans admire Arya's family values.  Examine it deeper and it is those values that drives her to kill.  It hurts more than it helps.  Pack mind set.   Sansa mildly betrayed her father, not out of a desire to hurt the family but to stay near the boy she thought she loved.  Not exactly family values but no one has been killed by it, yet.  Ned was going to die even if Cersei was late to learn of his plans.  The wolves and the lions were already at each other's throats.  The Starks were on the rocks as soon as they left the north.  If it's not this mis-step it would have been another.

Sansa is the lone wolf.  Whose to say she won't outlive the pack.  

  

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People hate on Sansa for a few reasons and none of them are really acceptable in my opinion.

Some dislike her because she is too naive and loves songs and stories about gallant knights. Some of the readers think this is silly and they tend to prefer Arya, for example.

That takes me to the second reason. People dislike her because she is dressing a gown and not mail, she is using words, not a sword. You can see that characters like Arya, Brienne and Asha receive way more love because they are "strong female leads." But it is not true, a woman doesn't need to fight to be strong, we have strong female leads like Catelyn, Cersei and Daenerys, none of them are warriors and they are loved. Let's remind that Daenerys was naive in A Game of Thrones, she was all meek, but people loved her anyway. Sansa is two years younger than her and people aren't fair with her.

The third reason is the "treason", people have the notion that she betrayed her family, that she always preferred the southern life, that she was more a Tully than a Stark. Well, children are like that and even adults, they can identify themselves more to their father's side or their mother's, there's no crime in that. Ned and Cat raised their children in both cultures and they could always choose. Plus, the treason thing, Ned spoiled his own plans, why couldn't he keep his mouth shut instead of telling children about his plans? Why telling Cersei he knew about the incest and he was going to tell Robert? He got Robert killed and he got himself killed for trusting Littlefinger.

Ned is my favourite character to this day, but it was his fault, it was not Sansa's.

I think the hate towards Sansa is because she is a teenager who acts her age, people in general tend to hate on teenagers, especially if they act their age.

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22 hours ago, Darksnider05 said:

Sansa has other options in House Royce she's been actively choosing Petyr for a while.  But the text is clear about her feelings on SweetRobin her kin.

This dislike of her cousin seems pretty human and natural to me. She is really put off by him. I wouldn't go so far as to say she hates him, but there's an element of disgust there. Who wants their little cousin to per in their bed, after all? 

And yet. She takes care of his emotional needs and helps him to function. This is not entirely altruistic, of course. She comforts him. She convinces him to do what he needs to do. She does it well enough that he attaches himself to her, so she's not unkind in her manner even if he does make her skin crawl. Is she supposed to think the whole time, "Poor Sweetrobin, his mommy is dead" every time she looks at him for her to be considered empathetic? I think it's possible to understand how someone deems and still dislike them at the same time. 

In each instance where she goes along with using the meds to calm him, it's justifiable in that moment; it's only the fact that it's fine so much that is alarming to the reader. And in a young woman's mind, if it was really that dangerous would the maester do it? 

But when it comes down to it, people dont all like the same types of people. I like Sansa. I can't stand Arya. But not because they are fundamentally likeable or unlikeable. Because ultimately people have different preferences for who they like to be with. (This is not true of all characters. Some are obviously written to be liked or disliked, I'm not making a general argument about everyone.)

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2 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

She reminds us too much of ourselves.  When we're here to read about feats of magical perversion and bravery, all to take us away from our usness.  Then there's this American/British tween in the story.  Whom we identify with but don't want to.

I think this is a great observation.

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On 5/5/2018 at 0:47 PM, The Mother of The Others said:

She reminds us too much of ourselves.  When we're here to read about feats of magical perversion and bravery, all to take us away from our usness.  Then there's this American/British tween in the story.  Whom we identify with but don't want to.

Sansa takes to the extreme the stereotypical teen from a family with means who has never had to work and expects to get everything handed to her.  There are teens like that but the Sansa character takes it up several notches.  I don't like her.

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An interesting observation is that those who dislike her tend to project massively and ascribe qualities to her which are untrue or exaggerations of her early thoughts and feelings.  I also notice they rarely have a good grasp on the inner themes of the story as a whole or the more subtle qualities of the characters. 

I know I sound like a literary snob. But there ya go. 

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49 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

An interesting observation is that those who dislike her tend to project massively and ascribe qualities to her which are untrue or exaggerations of her early thoughts and feelings.  

I think the first part of your statement described me the first time I read the book. I really thought she was on a track to become the next Cersei. My sister told me Sansa was her favorite character, and I was so flabbergasted I went back and re-read just her chapters in order. I think this gave me a better picture of her as a character overall. It changed me from thinking she was selfish in a Regina George sense to seeing her as selfish in a juvenile way (maybe even a bit immature for her age, but not much if my seventh grade students are any comparison). Its hard to judge Sansa fairly when Dany and Arya seem so crazy mature for their age. 

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Most eleven-year-olds would behave far better than Sansa did when her father killed her beloved pet as punishment for her little sister and her pet attacking the crown prince.  It would be a walk in the park for most eleven-year-old girls to witness their father unexpectedly decapitated right before her eyes and then still remain committed to marry the guy who ordered the execution.  I was embarrassed for her when she reacted so poorly to being repeatedly stripped and beaten by the Kingsguard while her fiance, who just ordered the beatings, looked on.  She's just a whiny little bitch, really.

 

[/sarcasm]

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2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

An interesting observation is that those who dislike her tend to project massively and ascribe qualities to her which are untrue or exaggerations of her early thoughts and feelings.  I also notice they rarely have a good grasp on the inner themes of the story as a whole or the more subtle qualities of the characters. 

I know I sound like a literary snob. But there ya go. 

I dunna know about projection. I think Sansa was written as a self centered tween.  Sansa has had her difficulties throughout the story. I feel sorry for the kid.

WoW hasn’t been released yet. Sansa is approximately 13 years of age and she hasn’t grown much since the beginning of the saga. She has aged. She has been used and abused. Sansa is still basically powerless and dependent.

The Winds of Winter - Alayne I    "Come," Petyr said, "walk with me." He took her by the arm and led her deeper into the vaults, past an empty dungeon. "And how was your first meeting with Harry the Heir?"    "He's horrible."      "The world is full of horrors, sweet. By now you ought to know that. You've seen enough of them."

Sansa is of the opinion that Harry is horrible. In the end Sansa does what LF wants ---- Charm him [Harry]. Entrance him. Bewitch him.

LF is pimping Sansa. Sansa, the 13 year old,  is dependent upon LF for her well being. Sansa Stark Lannister is a fugitive.

Projection and the much tossed around “hate” comes more from individuals who refuse to read the character as written.

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As far as where Sansa is going, I don’t know. But I know where I don’t want Sansa to go: I don’t want her to become a vicious psychopath like Cersei. It’s a similar situation, with Cersei/Sansa getting promised to a prince and things... not going as planned. As shown with Cersei, misery doesn’t always build character. It just makes it easier to self-destruct.

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Well to answer the OP, here’s why I don’t like Sansa (and I actually respect Sansa): 

She’s unnecessarily cruel to Arya and sics Jeyne and Beth on her, then blames Arya for getting Lady decapitated.

Running to Cersei, putting a dent in Ned’s plans. 

Doesn’t give Tyrion a chance at least to be friendly when they’re married, something I prefer in the show over the books.

Note that most of these are from the first book. 

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5 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

An interesting observation is that those who dislike her tend to project massively and ascribe qualities to her which are untrue or exaggerations of her early thoughts and feelings.  I also notice they rarely have a good grasp on the inner themes of the story as a whole or the more subtle qualities of the characters. 

I know I sound like a literary snob. But there ya go. 

Well just because people don’t agree with your views on a character that does not mean they do not have a “good grasp on the inner themes of the story...” Sansa, in my view, was initially written by GRRM as a foil to Arya’s heroic arc. Ergo, Arya identifying with the poor and downtrodden, for instance the butcher’s boy, whereas Sansa being disgusted by the boy’s smell. Or when Arya is willing to tell the truth about the incident at the Trident but Sansa isn’t. Even in this instance, GRRM has Arya shouting out against them killing Lady (just after Sansa had refused to support Arya’s version of the events) whereas Sansa screaming it’s Arya’s and Nymeria’s fault. GRRM clearly draws out the difference in the characters of the sisters. Then we have Sansa’s betrayal of her father’s trust. We can debate ad nauseam on whether Sansa’s betrayal helped Cersei or not but that’s not the point. The point is Sansa, after witnessing Cersei and the Lannisters’ (Jamie had killed Jory and she knew of her father’s dislike of the Lannisters) actions till then, could still run to Cersei and reveal her father’s plan when she was expressly asked not to do so by Ned. Now before you go saying that she was only a child, GRRM wrote Arya as being two years younger than Sansa but still being able to recognize Cersei and Joffrey for who they truly were. Sansa’s arc in AGOT, in my view, was intentionally written by GRRM as disloyal, naive, selfish, and, snobbish (sorry couldn’t resist :P) for the readers to identify with her little sister who was the opposite in every way. 

My gripe with AGOT Sansa is that she was willing to admit (yes reluctantly) that her father is a traitor so as to be able marry Joffrey. Yes, she justifies this by stating that she can convince her prince to show mercy and exile her father and then bring him back after a while. The fact that she is capable of thinking through all of this but is not able to see or even worse does not want to admit that Cersei and her son are monsters is what rubbed me the wrong way about AGOT Sansa. By acknowledging her father is a traitor, she is turning her back on her family and her father’s values. You might ask what else is a frightened eleven year old to do. But we have her thoughts when she agrees to write the letters, and it’s not fear for her life that causes her to write Cersei’s letters but it is her desire to marry Joffrey and be his queen. All Cersei had to dangle in front of Sansa in writing the letters calling her father a traitor was the threat of her not being able to marry Joff and be his queen. 

Post AGOT Sansa, is definitely more interesting and likable, and her POV chapters show that she is able to recognize people’s characters and their motives better and admit their flaws. She longs for her family and home again. The only issue I have is her resignation to her fate and her trust in Littlefinger. She knows Littlefinger’s darkest secrets, yet as Alayne, she pretends to herself that he knows best and is looking out for their interests. Perhaps this is the calm before the storm and she will stab LF in the back at the opportune moment. But to me there’s also a bit of Stockholm syndrome with Sansa’s and LF’s dynamics... he’s become the mentor/father figure in her life and she is slowly becoming an accomplice in his crimes and dealings. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens in Winds.

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For me the same thing that irritates me when reading her chapters is the same thing I enjoy about her as a character. I love that GRRM realized that the Stark's were too good and created a character that is still inherently good but has a slightly skewed view giving her the potential to be viewed the way the Lannister's are viewed. (If that makes sense to anyone). I enjoyed that every now and then she broke the Stark norm while at the same time being irritated that she was breaking the Stark norm.

After AGoT she began to follow the same path as her siblings

All the Stark children are naive, sheltered, want to do the right thing and are on a journey of self discovery and will probably become some type of hero, but every now and then I kind of root for Sansa  to just do something wrong and slightly sketchy. 

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