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DominusNovus

Wyman Manderly as Jack of All Trades

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Playing around with one of those hypothetical 'best Small Council' thought games, and it occurs to me that Wyman is probably one of the most versatile characters in the series.

He's built up a fleet of war ships for a region that hasn't had a navy in millennia.  Sounds like a good Master of Ships, right?

He's outmaneuvered political opponents without any cards to play, seizing on every advantage he has to turn the tables from abject humiliation to brutal revenge.  Master of Whispers it is - if he can out-scheme Roose Bolton, he's crafty.

He's overseen a thriving port city, and taken steps to improve its infrastructure and defense during wartime and hostile climatic conditions, when resources are stretched thin.  Master of Coin sounds like a good fit for a man who can stretch so little so far.

He's contributed mightily to a network of secret political alliances, all under the nose of several very paranoid and more powerful opponents.  That, with all the others, and you've got a solid Hand of the King there.

Seriously, other than Lord Commander of the Kingsguard or Grand Maester, is there any job on the Small Council Wyman couldn't do?

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If the North ever does successfully secede from the Seven Kingdoms, Wyman would be a prime candidate for Master of Ships or Coin. Isn't his family one of the richest - if not the richest - in the North due to his control over White Habour? I think he'd enjoy those two roles more than any of the others. Maybe he's a little too direct and antagonistic to be Master of Whisperers, though.

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44 minutes ago, Faera said:

If the North ever does successfully secede from the Seven Kingdoms, Wyman would be a prime candidate for Master of Ships or Coin. Isn't his family one of the richest - if not the richest - in the North due to his control over White Habour? I think he'd enjoy those two roles more than any of the others. Maybe he's a little too direct and antagonistic to be Master of Whisperers, though.

He prevaricates with the Freys and Lannisters, only to bake the Freys into a pie and have complete deniability into their murder. He'd do fine

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1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He prevaricates with the Freys and Lannisters, only to bake the Freys into a pie and have complete deniability into their murder. He'd do fine

Not only that, he then serves aforementioned pies to other Frey's, which is just the icing on the cake.

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I found it odd that after Robert's Rebellion no Northern Lords ended up on the Small Council as far as we know. The North was the one Kingdom that unanimously supported the rebels, as opposed to the other Kingdom's that had Houses fight on the royal's side. It feels like the North got the short end of the stick. The Lannisters got a Queen after they joined after the war was won, the Vale got a Hand of the King who was married to a Tully. The Tully's got a marriage to the Warden of the North and a marriage to the Lord Hand and Warden of the East. Why not a appoint a Northern lord like Manderly as a gesture of thanks, goodwill, and to help keep them in the fold?

Sure Ned got the call to be Hand but that was a decade and half after the fact when Robert's reign was all but written.

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Well Tywin Lannister tried to buy him out first during the War. This says something by itself.

It's funny how many characters don't view him as someone important, but rather only as the fattest lord in Westeros. I think Catelyn shared this limited view (or was it someone else?) and considers his family not that worthy for a marriage for some of her girls.

But Tywin knows things about key strategic positions and wealth, so he tried to lure him on his side in the war's early stage.

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13 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

Playing around with one of those hypothetical 'best Small Council' thought games, and it occurs to me that Wyman is probably one of the most versatile characters in the series.

He's built up a fleet of war ships for a region that hasn't had a navy in millennia.  Sounds like a good Master of Ships, right?

He's outmaneuvered political opponents without any cards to play, seizing on every advantage he has to turn the tables from abject humiliation to brutal revenge.  Master of Whispers it is - if he can out-scheme Roose Bolton, he's crafty.

He's overseen a thriving port city, and taken steps to improve its infrastructure and defense during wartime and hostile climatic conditions, when resources are stretched thin.  Master of Coin sounds like a good fit for a man who can stretch so little so far.

He's contributed mightily to a network of secret political alliances, all under the nose of several very paranoid and more powerful opponents.  That, with all the others, and you've got a solid Hand of the King there.

Seriously, other than Lord Commander of the Kingsguard or Grand Maester, is there any job on the Small Council Wyman couldn't do?

Great breakdown, he really does seem to be one of the most capable leaders north of the Neck....and yet somehow also loyal.  

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22 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

Playing around with one of those hypothetical 'best Small Council' thought games, and it occurs to me that Wyman is probably one of the most versatile characters in the series.

He's built up a fleet of war ships for a region that hasn't had a navy in millennia.  Sounds like a good Master of Ships, right?

He's outmaneuvered political opponents without any cards to play, seizing on every advantage he has to turn the tables from abject humiliation to brutal revenge.  Master of Whispers it is - if he can out-scheme Roose Bolton, he's crafty.

He's overseen a thriving port city, and taken steps to improve its infrastructure and defense during wartime and hostile climatic conditions, when resources are stretched thin.  Master of Coin sounds like a good fit for a man who can stretch so little so far.

He's contributed mightily to a network of secret political alliances, all under the nose of several very paranoid and more powerful opponents.  That, with all the others, and you've got a solid Hand of the King there.

Seriously, other than Lord Commander of the Kingsguard or Grand Maester, is there any job on the Small Council Wyman couldn't do?

I see where you're coming from on Master of Ships. The lords with the biggest fleets (Redwyne and Velaryons) tend to be the ones that end up with that chair on the council. But, in terms of effectiveness, we don't really know how he would be as a captain (admiral?) of a fleet. But... again, due to rank and other cultural norms of the time, small council positions weren't typically given to the most effective people for the job. We see that from Davos' perspective when they are invading King's Landing.

I've always liked the idea that Lord Manderly also keeps himself fat intentionally. Not being able to ride a horse means he won't be expected ride to battle, which allows him to stick entirely to his strengths. And, quite frankly, stay alive. No one is safe in battle. Or perhaps he's just really lucky.

Edited by Traverys

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Wyman's insanely fat sons acquitted themselves when they rode with Robb Stark during the War, according to Catelyn.

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On 10/24/2017 at 0:50 AM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

I found it odd that after Robert's Rebellion no Northern Lords ended up on the Small Council as far as we know. The North was the one Kingdom that unanimously supported the rebels, as opposed to the other Kingdom's that had Houses fight on the royal's side. It feels like the North got the short end of the stick. The Lannisters got a Queen after they joined after the war was won, the Vale got a Hand of the King who was married to a Tully. The Tully's got a marriage to the Warden of the North and a marriage to the Lord Hand and Warden of the East. Why not a appoint a Northern lord like Manderly as a gesture of thanks, goodwill, and to help keep them in the fold?

Sure Ned got the call to be Hand but that was a decade and half after the fact when Robert's reign was all but written.

Maybe Robert/Jon Arryn were more concerned with expanding rather than consolidating their network of alliances and overlooked the North since it was unquestionably loyal to begin with? Or because it was so far away? Either way, it wound up backfiring on Robert since when push came to shove, he had no alternative power bloc to counter the Lannisters.

Edited by Knight of Bobcats
I misspelled "backfire".

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Wyman succeeds for the same reason Littlefinger does:  People don't see them as a threat and underestimate them.  It's not that Wyman is exceptionally skilled.  He's just good at hiding his intentions and his unimpressive appearance bring people's guard down.  

Walder and Wyman are cut from the same cloth.  They are similar.

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2 hours ago, Texas Hold Em said:

Walder and Wyman are cut from the same cloth.  They are similar.

Sure....up until you realize that Walder is a petty, self serving disloyal prick and Wyman is; by contrast; unquestionably loyal

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13 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

Sure....up until you realize that Walder is a petty, self serving disloyal prick and Wyman is; by contrast; unquestionably loyal

He’s also super ambitious though. I imagine if the Starks weren’t around, he’d still be scheming, except to put his own family on top. And even with young Rickon, he’ll clearly have full control over the boy and be able to ingratiate himself with him. Wyman is not a saint.

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18 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

He’s also super ambitious though. I imagine if the Starks weren’t around, he’d still be scheming, except to put his own family on top. And even with young Rickon, he’ll clearly have full control over the boy and be able to ingratiate himself with him. Wyman is not a saint.

Lord Manderly has shown nothing but fierce loyalty to house Stark even when they lose everything including Winterfell Manderly still works towards Stark interests and you can tell by how his granddaughter talks has taught his family to serve house Stark with loyality.

Of course with Rickon Manderly has all the power with regent status but I wouldn't trust anyone in the North more besides maybe Howland Reed with said power. 

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3 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

He’s also super ambitious though. I imagine if the Starks weren’t around, he’d still be scheming, except to put his own family on top. And even with young Rickon, he’ll clearly have full control over the boy and be able to ingratiate himself with him. Wyman is not a saint.

Pretty much what @Stormking902 said. He may not be a saint but pretty much no one is. The point is that he is fiercely loyal to House Stark even when they have no power or influence at all. If the Manderly's gain regent power from a Stark restoration, then that's just a nice little bonus for them. But there is nothing to suggest that Manderly would be anything other than completely dedicated to Stark restoration even if Rickon was of age.

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4 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

Pretty much what @Stormking902 said. He may not be a saint but pretty much no one is. The point is that he is fiercely loyal to House Stark even when they have no power or influence at all. If the Manderly's gain regent power from a Stark restoration, then that's just a nice little bonus for them. But there is nothing to suggest that Manderly would be anything other than completely dedicated to Stark restoration even if Rickon was of age.

This.

I also don't think he went to Winterfell expecting to survive whatever is going to go down.

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14 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

Pretty much what @Stormking902 said. He may not be a saint but pretty much no one is. The point is that he is fiercely loyal to House Stark even when they have no power or influence at all. If the Manderly's gain regent power from a Stark restoration, then that's just a nice little bonus for them. But there is nothing to suggest that Manderly would be anything other than completely dedicated to Stark restoration even if Rickon was of age.

Absolutely.
 

8 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

This.

I also don't think he went to Winterfell expecting to survive whatever is going to go down.

This as well. Everything about Wyman's actions seems to suggest that he is savouring these last moments of his rouse before he brings the axe down and likely dies in the process. Now he has his heir safely back at White Habour, all bets are off. 

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2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

I also don't think he went to Winterfell expecting to survive whatever is going to go down.

Somewhat agree. I don't think he was expecting to die, but more that he's willing to do so if that's the way the hand is dealt.

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