DarkBastard Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 If I remember correctly, it was named "The War of the Five Kings" before Mance was even engaging the Night's watch to get south. Again, because there were five declared Kings in the Seven Kingdoms, regardless of who engaged in battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 0:32 PM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: They don't call it "War of the Six Kings" for the same reason they don't talk much about the Ottoman Empire's role in the American War of Independence. Yes, it's obviously racism. They talk even less about the fact that England outlawed slavery a few years before the American Declaration of Independence was written. Coincidence? I can see why today's history books would leave out the Ottoman Empire; too "Islam-y." But I didn't see any mention of the Turks in the ancient books I learned from, back in the day. And I'm from the part of the country that never seceded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBastard Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 56 minutes ago, zandru said: They talk even less about the fact that England outlawed slavery a few years before the American Declaration of Independence was written. Coincidence? I can see why today's history books would leave out the Ottoman Empire; too "Islam-y." But I didn't see any mention of the Turks in the ancient books I learned from, back in the day. And I'm from the part of the country that never seceded. This is spinning way off topic, but since we're there...the history books don't talk about slavery in Africa, or the fact that it was Africans who sold people to the rest of the world as slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 7 hours ago, DarkBastard said: but since we're there...the history books don't talk about slavery in Africa, Right again! So much interesting history ends up being abbreviated or sanitized. Sorry about the digression! Trying to get on track, it's not just the unreliable narrators but also the carefully edited histories and "song versions" that make the whole Westerosi thing even harder to puzzle out. No wonder George RR is having trouble weaving all his threads together to the logical conclusion, even though he knows where he's going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 8:09 AM, TMIFairy said: Five sounded more "cool" than Six. For similar examples look at the history of China - e.g. the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period. The distinctions between one and to other are pretty arbitrary, simply the local "maesters" decided that "Five X and Ten Y" is cool! "The Period of Five Dynasties, or at least four and possibly up to eight, and Ten Kingdoms, depending on how you count them from eight up to fifteen" does not roll off the tongue so well ... If I recall correctly, and if the story has merit... My oldest brother had a roommate in college that was of Chinese descent. The roommate's birthdate was May 5, 1950. Fives are good. So 5-5-50, which was also the year of the tiger, was... In grrm terms, the Prince that was Promised, and such... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 15 hours ago, zandru said: They talk even less about the fact that England outlawed slavery a few years before the American Declaration of Independence was written. Coincidence? I can see why today's history books would leave out the Ottoman Empire; too "Islam-y." No. They don't talk about the Ottoman's Empire participation in the American War of Independence because, guess what, there was none. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygett Lannister Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: No. They don't talk about the Ottoman's Empire participation in the American War of Independence because, guess what, there was none. That's the point. No mate it was racism it had to be there is no other explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Why not name it War of the FOUR Kings? Only four was in active participation at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Everybody talks about Mance , but the forget about Euron Greyjoy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reekazoid Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Meh. It was part of the overall struggle, but, more along the fringes. I can think of an analogy from RL history. Here in the US we talk about the War of 1812. We fought against the British in a few places. It was important to our country, but little more than a nuisance to the British Empire, and nothing more than a blip against the backdrop of the Napoleonic Wars. Now those wars had massive implications worldwide. I'm as patriotic a US citizen as any Wull or Norrey is a patriotic Northerner, but if I'm honest, the war of 1812 was really a side note, as was the invasion of the King Beyond the Wall. Any Brits in here ever hear about the War of 1812? Any French, Dutch, or Belgians? I know it's not a perfect comparison and the fine points could be debated at length, but I hope the main point came across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Because the maesters named the war, and they didn't consider Mance to be important. Despite in world disagreements, the name makes sense. There are 5 seperate factions fighting for independence, control of the IT, or simply against each other. Mance and his war is a seperate conflict altogether, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 7 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said: Everybody talks about Mance , but the forget about Euron Greyjoy . No we haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 1:33 PM, DominusNovus said: Who cares about what goes on north of the Wall? The Night's Watch obviously do. The dangers up north was why they were created in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 There are parallels with internecine Roman Emperor struggles... Not exclusive of other circumstances, but the War of the Five Emperors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 4:15 AM, SirArthur said: And then we have Balon's war, the strangest of them all: an independence war against the Iron Throne and against seperatists. He is in a revenge war. Good point. Balon declared Iron Born independence from the Crown by attacking a Kingdom that was in active rebellion against it. Had he not claimed himself to be a King Joffrey would have rewarded his loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reekazoid Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 4:44 AM, DarkBastard said: Mark my words, next thing we'll see is a post pushing for GRRM to adopt "Wildling Lives Matter" as the official words of House Giantsbane in The Winds of Winter. Indeed! Then maybe we can start calling Northern bastards by the surname "Snowflake". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominusNovus Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 10 hours ago, KingintheNorth4 said: The Night's Watch obviously do. The dangers up north was why they were created in the first place. Or to give them northern louts someone to whom they could feel more civilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 12 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Good point. Balon declared Iron Born independence from the Crown by attacking a Kingdom that was in active rebellion against it. Had he not claimed himself to be a King Joffrey would have rewarded his loyalty. Balon was mad, just like most of the Greyjoys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBastard Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 On 10/27/2017 at 9:45 PM, zandru said: Right again! So much interesting history ends up being abbreviated or sanitized. Sorry about the digression! Trying to get on track, it's not just the unreliable narrators but also the carefully edited histories and "song versions" that make the whole Westerosi thing even harder to puzzle out. No wonder George RR is having trouble weaving all his threads together to the logical conclusion, even though he knows where he's going. I couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBastard Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 On 10/29/2017 at 0:31 AM, Reekazoid said: Indeed! Then maybe we can start calling Northern bastards by the surname "Snowflake". Too true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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