Jump to content
Bronn Stone

MLB Offseason 2017/18 - Yu Broke My Heart, Ain't That A Shame

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Ghjhero said:

I don’t mean to hate on the Yankees here, but I think that is a very big Achilles heel. Imo Home Runs are vastly overrated with the record amount that are being hit these days. Better to have hitters who will put the ball in play rather than just swing for the fences. 

Oh I wouldn't call that hating on them at all, I'm pumped they have Stanton in the lineup with Judge, Sanchez and a hopefully healthy Bird but that could go sideways fast if they are all cold at once.

 

8 hours ago, dmc515 said:

Oh ye of little faith.  Nobody knows who has the starting pitching at this juncture, and I like the Yanks' ability to go out and get more.  Not to mention their rotation right now matches up just fine against anyone other than the Astros and Dodgers.

 

But the Astros have made theirs better, the Yankees big moves as far as starting pitching were Tanka not opting out and re-signing CC. They can go out and get more but it will cost way more than it would now. You can take what the Pirates were asking for Cole and add one or two more guys the Yankees weren't willing to part with before but now Cashman's nuts are in a vice so he's going to have to pull the trigger. Or they are going to go the Jaime Garcia bargain basement route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Oh I wouldn't call that hating on them at all, I'm pumped they have Stanton in the lineup with Judge, Sanchez and a hopefully healthy Bird but that could go sideways fast if they are all cold at once.

Pretty sure this could be said about any team's top four hitters going cold at once.

7 hours ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

But the Astros have made theirs better, the Yankees big moves as far as starting pitching were Tanka not opting out and re-signing CC. They can go out and get more but it will cost way more than it would now. You can take what the Pirates were asking for Cole and add one or two more guys the Yankees weren't willing to part with before but now Cashman's nuts are in a vice so he's going to have to pull the trigger. Or they are going to go the Jaime Garcia bargain basement route.

There's no way for any of us to know if it will cost more later than it would now.  As teams realize they aren't going to compete this coming year, many more starting pitchers may become available, which changes the market.  In such a market it's entirely possible the Yanks may find a match with a prospect package they're willing to trade that they can't find now.

Anyway, I really don't like the tit-for-tat game with the Astros.  Seems like Yanks fans did this for a decade's worth of offseasons with the Red Sox, and there was little correlation between "who won the offseason" and who won the actual season.  It also can get really tedious really fast.

For instance:  if we're talking about adding Cole, does that mean improving their playoff rotation?  Because he's at best a marginal improvement over Morton or McCullers.  If we're talking the regular season, then the Yanks should be improved by a full season of Gray replacing Pineda, along with a full season of Robertson, Kahnle, and even Chad Green who didn't start pitching in high leverage situations til after the all-star break.  But then Astros fans could counter that they're getting a full season of Verlander and Cole to replace Fiers, Musgrove, and Peacock.  Then Yanks fans can counter with Stanton replacing Holliday and hopefully a healthy Bird replacing Chris Carter.  But the Astros also should hopefully have a healthier Keuchel and McCullers.  And on and on it goes.

I like the Yanks going young.  And for now, I'm fine with them having a Triple A rotation of Adams/German/Acevedo/Cessa as their rotation backup.  Also, it's prospect list time, and I've been reading/hearing from a lot of evaluators that think Sheffield could be ready by midseason.  Pretty excited to see what he does.  They have a ton of pitching depth in the minors.  Frankly, I'm still more concerned going with rookies at two infield spots.  Say what you want about them, but Headley/Castro/Frazier accounted for over 5 WAR with the Yankees last season.  That's a lot to ask of Torres, Andujar, and probably some of Wade/Torreyes over a full season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Pretty sure this could be said about any team's top four hitters going cold at once.

There's no way for any of us to know if it will cost more later than it would now.  As teams realize they aren't going to compete this coming year, many more starting pitchers may become available, which changes the market.  In such a market it's entirely possible the Yanks may find a match with a prospect package they're willing to trade that they can't find now.

Anyway, I really don't like the tit-for-tat game with the Astros.  Seems like Yanks fans did this for a decade's worth of offseasons with the Red Sox, and there was little correlation between "who won the offseason" and who won the actual season.  It also can get really tedious really fast.

For instance:  if we're talking about adding Cole, does that mean improving their playoff rotation?  Because he's at best a marginal improvement over Morton or McCullers.  If we're talking the regular season, then the Yanks should be improved by a full season of Gray replacing Pineda, along with a full season of Robertson, Kahnle, and even Chad Green who didn't start pitching in high leverage situations til after the all-star break.  But then Astros fans could counter that they're getting a full season of Verlander and Cole to replace Fiers, Musgrove, and Peacock.  Then Yanks fans can counter with Stanton replacing Holliday and hopefully a healthy Bird replacing Chris Carter.  But the Astros also should hopefully have a healthier Keuchel and McCullers.  And on and on it goes.

I like the Yanks going young.  And for now, I'm fine with them having a Triple A rotation of Adams/German/Acevedo/Cessa as their rotation backup.  Also, it's prospect list time, and I've been reading/hearing from a lot of evaluators that think Sheffield could be ready by midseason.  Pretty excited to see what he does.  They have a ton of pitching depth in the minors.  Frankly, I'm still more concerned going with rookies at two infield spots.  Say what you want about them, but Headley/Castro/Frazier accounted for over 5 WAR with the Yankees last season.  That's a lot to ask of Torres, Andujar, and probably some of Wade/Torreyes over a full season.

It is going to cost more because the Yankees are going to have to pay the asking price or go into the playoffs with the rotation they've had all year. If I'm the Tigers for arguments sake and the Yankees come calling about Fulmer the Tigers might well ask for more than they did in the offseason because the Yankees need the Tigers more than the Tigers need the Yankees.

You may not like the tit for tat game but it doesn't change the fact the they didn't do anything to improve the rotation from the end of the season. Adding to the offense is all well and good but relying on the offense outscore the opposition every night over the course of six months isn't going to cut it.

Adams isn't going to start for long in the majors with only two pitches and Cessa is good for a spot start here and there but not much more than that. So that leaves German and Acevedo.

If you like the Yankees going young why are you worried about them doing it? Headley was streaky as fuck, I'm going to miss Castro but in a deal for Stanton I can live without him and Andujar/ Torres can't do any worse than Wade/Torreyes and possibly Tyler Austin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Ghjhero said:

On another note, is anyone concerned about the possibility of there being a strike at all given the rhetoric coming from some of the agents and MLBPA?

No chance of a strike until the current CBA expires, by which time the MLBPA will hopefully have figured out a plan to fix their fuck ups in the current CBA. The sad state of this year’s FA market has nothing to do with collusion; it’s a direct result of the concessions the MLBPA made in the last round of bargaining, especially the stupidly low luxury tax threshold. When all the big spenders are trying to get under the threshold in order to reset their penalties of course it’s gonna be a slow offseason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

It is going to cost more because the Yankees are going to have to pay the asking price or go into the playoffs with the rotation they've had all year. If I'm the Tigers for arguments sake and the Yankees come calling about Fulmer the Tigers might well ask for more than they did in the offseason because the Yankees need the Tigers more than the Tigers need the Yankees.

First, again, there's no way of knowing this.  Take the Fulmer example - it's entirely possible that the number of teams willing and able to give up what's necessary to acquire him remains static from now til June/Jule while the number of starting pitchers on the trade block increases.  This would hurt the Tigers' bargaining position.  Second, which is quite likely - the Yanks remain steadfast with their untouchables (Torres, Andujar, Sheffield, Florial), but a better option that can be had for a lesser package becomes available as the season progresses.

39 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Adams isn't going to start for long in the majors with only two pitches

The book on Adams isn't that he only has two pitches - most evaluators rate both his slider and change as at least above average.  It's that his walk and fly-ball rates are still a big problem and he has little life on a fastball with average velocity.  He has a low ceiling and may have a better long-term future in the bullpen (a la Adam Warren), but he's about as major-league ready as a back-end prospect can get.

44 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

If you like the Yankees going young why are you worried about them doing it?

Because, as opposed to the starting rotation where (knock on wood) they'll start the season with five proven starters and the rookies as backups in the minors, the rookies will be asked to man 2b and 3b from the get-go with only Torreyes as a safety net.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

No chance of a strike until the current CBA expires, by which time the MLBPA will hopefully have figured out a plan to fix their fuck ups in the current CBA. The sad state of this year’s FA market has nothing to do with collusion; it’s a direct result of the concessions the MLBPA made in the last round of bargaining, especially the stupidly low luxury tax threshold. When all the big spenders are trying to get under the threshold in order to reset their penalties of course it’s gonna be a slow offseason. 

I feel like if some of these guys asked for a shorter contract term they would have been signed by now. Not only was it the shit CBA but the front offices are learning how to play the game.

It's like Bizarro World when the Yankees and Dodgers don't spend as much as we're accustomed to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

First, again, there's no way of knowing this.  Take the Fulmer example - it's entirely possible that the number of teams willing and able to give up what's necessary to acquire him remains static from now til June/Jule while the number of starting pitchers on the trade block increases.  This would hurt the Tigers' bargaining position.  Second, which is quite likely - the Yanks remain steadfast with their untouchables (Torres, Andujar, Sheffield, Florial), but a better option that can be had for a lesser package becomes available as the season progresses.

The book on Adams isn't that he only has two pitches - most evaluators rate both his slider and change as at least above average.  It's that his walk and fly-ball rates are still a big problem and he has little life on a fastball with average velocity.  He has a low ceiling and may have a better long-term future in the bullpen (a la Adam Warren), but he's about as major-league ready as a back-end prospect can get.

Because, as opposed to the starting rotation where (knock on wood) they'll start the season with five proven starters and the rookies as backups in the minors, the rookies will be asked to man 2b and 3b from the get-go with only Torreyes as a safety net.

I can see them changing their tune on Florial honestly, I read that he strikes out a bit too much kind of like Austin Jackson. In my opinion it isn't about the amount the teams looking for pitching that is going to drive up the price for any pitcher, it's the need the Yankees are going to have. They can get a guy out of the bargain bin like Jaime Garcia but that worked out really well. But even a lesser guy then Fulmer is going to cost my by virtue of the Yankees needing that arm to help put them over the top.

If not now when is going to be right to bring up Andujar and Torres? At midseason? Next year? We can't let them stay on the farm forever why not now? Especially considering the team will have to spend money they don't have if they want to maintain payroll flexibility throughout the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why some of you think the Twins will be anything other then average this year. Last year was most likely a fluke. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

I can see them changing their tune on Florial honestly, I read that he strikes out a bit too much 

That's putting it nicely - he had a 31% strikeout rate last year.  But that seems to be a symptom to what scouts are most concerned about:  some evaluators report he has virtually no pitch recognition when it comes to breaking balls.  If he makes it to Trenton (later in) this season and shows he can put up similar numbers against pitchers with better breaking stuff, he will skyrocket up the rankings.  If his average goes down from ~.300 last year to, say, .240 in a large sample at Trenton, his stock will plummet.  He's a very volatile prospect.

10 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

But even a lesser guy then Fulmer is going to cost my by virtue of the Yankees needing that arm to help put them over the top.

Yeah I just fundamentally disagree in conceiving how the trade market works.  The Yankees need isn't really relevant, it's about how many teams are looking for starters (demand) and how many have starters on the block (supply).  Predicting that now is impossible.

14 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

If not now when is going to be right to bring up Andujar and Torres? At midseason? Next year? We can't let them stay on the farm forever why not now? Especially considering the team will have to spend money they don't have if they want to maintain payroll flexibility throughout the season.

I'm especially fine with going with Torres right now (with the caveat that you keep him down a few weeks to get that extra year of control).  And while I'm more skittish about Andujar than the Yanks seem to be, Cashman and co. have certainly earned the benefit of the doubt as of late.  I just think it's a good idea to acquire some backup options.  The list of infielders 23 and under that had successful rookie seasons is very short, and they're asking for two of them.  They had/have the money to sign, say, Kendrick, Frazier, or Walker and still keep at least $10 million for in-season trades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

That's putting it nicely - he had a 31% strikeout rate last year.  But that seems to be a symptom to what scouts are most concerned about:  some evaluators report he has virtually no pitch recognition when it comes to breaking balls.  If he makes it to Trenton (later in) this season and shows he can put up similar numbers against pitchers with better breaking stuff, he will skyrocket up the rankings.  If his average goes down from ~.300 last year to, say, .240 in a large sample at Trenton, his stock will plummet.  He's a very volatile prospect.

Yeah I just fundamentally disagree in conceiving how the trade market works.  The Yankees need isn't really relevant, it's about how many teams are looking for starters (demand) and how many have starters on the block (supply).  Predicting that now is impossible.

I'm especially fine with going with Torres right now (with the caveat that you keep him down a few weeks to get that extra year of control).  And while I'm more skittish about Andujar than the Yanks seem to be, Cashman and co. have certainly earned the benefit of the doubt as of late.  I just think it's a good idea to acquire some backup options.  The list of infielders 23 and under that had successful rookie seasons is very short, and they're asking for two of them.  They had/have the money to sign, say, Kendrick, Frazier, or Walker and still keep at least $10 million for in-season trades.

Is Neil Walker interested in being an insurance policy? Was Frazier for that matter? I don't think the Yankees need them to be Rookie of the Year candidates. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

Is Neil Walker interested in being an insurance policy? Was Frazier for that matter? I don't think the Yankees need them to be Rookie of the Year candidates. 

I think they could legitimately tell both they have the starting position at 3rd as long as they outperform Andujar.  Don't see a problem with making Andujar (or Torres, for that matter) force the issue.  Although you may have a point that the Yanks are/were unwilling to guarantee them a starting spot while the Mets were.

And I'm not referring to ROY-caliber seasons, I'm saying the list is very short for these type of rookies who've even had league average seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, spending a little more time there isn't going to hurt him - Judge and Sanchez spent much more time at Scranton.  And if he continues to perform like he was, a .866 OPS, while Walker is sitting around .750 OPS after a month or two, then yeah, that'd be forcing the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hola amigos -- I wanted to extend an invitation to anyone that may be interested in Fantasy Baseball this year. Typically we've run a single league because we've not had much more interest than 10 folks. I suspect that there will be a lot of interest this year after the constant buzz of a busy and exciting off-season. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Random question here, why is Jack Morris in the Hall of Fame now? I was looking at his numbers with a friend and we can’t understand why the voters put him in. I’d like to hear an argument in favor of him being there though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ghjhero said:

Random question here, why is Jack Morris in the Hall of Fame now? I was looking at his numbers with a friend and we can’t understand why the voters put him in. I’d like to hear an argument in favor of him being there though. 

Hmm... thick mustache... Tigers hat... could it be that voters confused him with Thomas Sullivan Magnum?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Hmm... thick mustache... Tigers hat... could it be that voters confused him with Thomas Sullivan Magnum?

Magnum should be in the Hall. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×