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POEMS (or other sundry quotes) that remind you of ASOIAF -- V2

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On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:10 AM, ravenous reader said:

Hi Pretty!  I've moved the discussion to the poetry thread, firstly given that I've had a lot of thoughts (and poems/songs) surrounding the subject which I'd like to explore freely and on my own terms

Good stuff here RR!   I am going to collect my thoughts and come back, because I have much to say on hoary whores!    I have discussed this topic quite a bit elsewhere so will need to gather snippets of text and organize.

This in particular, I love:

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:10 AM, ravenous reader said:

If the 'Tower of Joy' is a brothel, with Lyanna as the one coerced into whoredom, that makes Rhaegar the pimp, the hoped-for-dragons the payment, and the 'sullied knights' of the Kingsguard are there to act as 'bodyguards' ensuring the 'whore' does not escape.

YESSS.    This is great.

 

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@Darry Man @ravenous reader

 

this is seems to be where hoary whores are discussed now.  This may have already been said, but I just realized it. 

Lanna and the sailor's wife are probably Tysha and Tyrion's bastard daughter.  Just realized Robert's bastard daughter with a whore is named Barra, which is the same thing done to a different name. She is at Chataya's brothel where the mother who owns the place whores out her own daughter, Alayaya, in a parallel to the Sailor's wife doing the same with her daughter.  

This has has something to do with the image of the NQ figure that walks out of the black water at Winterfell in Bran's retrograde dream. She wishes for a strong son to avenge her.  She is whoring out her son in a way, using him for her own goals like a puppet with no concern for his own wellbeing. Dany emerges from the womb of the world in a similar way, and later whores out that baby for black magic. 

Anyway, that chapter where Ned sees Barra is one of @Kingmonkey's ToJ parallel scenes from the puppets of ice and fire essay. The fight that follows set up by Littlefinger between Ned and his three men, who play the Other/KG role from the ToJ when Ned mounts up it says the "others followed", and Jaime's men mirrors the ToJ where Lyanna is being whored out in some way. Jon too, he never gets his own life, only one of servitude. 

Ned winds up having his coma dream of the ToJ because of the very important "dolorous stroke" like leg wound he suffers there like the fisher king from Arthurian myth, which is the same mythos that a lot of pre-Bob's rebellion stuff comes from. Arthur Dayne obviously plays into that, and Lancelot's castle is called dolorous guard before being renamed joyous guard after a visit from Guinevere (maybe like queensgate got renamed?).

Ned thinks about Lyanna and her promise she asked for, comparing it to Barra's mom's making Ned make a promise.  Barra's mom wants Ned to tell Robert about them, Lyanna's was probably to tell Jon who he was or tell someone something.  He also thinks about Rhaegar and Jon throughout that whole travel. Ned kills a guy with a "sickening crunch" to the head, which George uses as code for a moon death, Oberyn and Theon at the burning of Winterfell also get one. Jory's sword is a red rain, magic sword words. At the end Ned gets milk of the poppy, which is something like becoming an Other or going through an icy transformation I think, like slipping into a warm bath. 

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On 12/3/2017 at 9:53 PM, Unchained said:

@ravenous reader lots of food for thought here. Concerning Rhaegar's name, I do think the gar in his name is a callous to Garth. Whereas Robert is more outwardly like Garth, Rhaegar is like an inverted version. That may be why it is in the second half of his name. Whether the fish is involved as well, who knows. I do associate him as the same thing as Petyr when fighting Brandon. As you have pointed out he like a crocodile trying to drown his stronger opponent. There is a species of gar known as an alligator gar. 

Re-gar-ding (:P) the name 'Rhae-gar', I was wondering whether GRRM might be playing with the two syllables the same way he played with the name 'Gar-ed' in the Prologue, which @evita mgfs I believe is correct in identifying as a play on 'Ed-gar', with the syllables transposed according to GRRM's mathematical wordgames, 'Edgar' for 'Edgar Allan Poe,' the famous gothic author of 'The Raven'!  From the fact of 'Will' (the one caught redhanded poaching/skinning a buck on a nobleman's estate) being an obvious reference to 'William Shakespeare' (similarly, there is a well-known anecdote, albeit most likely 'urban myth', of Shakespeare involved in a 'deer-poaching episode'), Evita reasons that the other two brothers in the Prologue ought to for symmetry's sake also therefore be nods to famous writers who may have influenced him (according to GRRM's penchant for doing things in threes)! 

Now, I'd like to take this further according to another thought I've had that GRRM is in addition to referencing famous authors also referencing figures who may have impacted his own personal life -- specifically his lovelife -- with a little disguise of course!  As you point out, Rhaegar fighting Robert parallels Petyr fighting Brandon, and in both instances they were fighting over a woman, Lyanna and Cat, respectively.  Given that it's widely acknowledged that GRRM may have based the character 'Lyanna' (as well as 'Lya' as in 'A Song for Lya') on his own love 'Lisa,' taken together with his obsession with doomed love triangles, we might ask ourselves if Robert and Rhaegar could likewise be taken to represent the two men feuding for her favor, namely GRRM himself and whomever Lisa left GRRM for. 

Does anyone happen to know the name of GRRM's romantic rival, the man for whom Lisa Tuttle left GRRM ( @The Fattest Leech?) -- I've researched and I can't find anything; that sensitive information has been very discretely hidden 'all records of his name erased' it would seem -- (that would parallel Lyanna leaving Robert for Rhaegar, and would imply GRRM identifies with Robert Baratheon!)?  I have a crazy notion his name was something like 'Gareth' or, even better, 'Gar-rhae' = 'Gary'!  :D

It's not unusual for authors to reference autobiographical tidbits in their own works.  For example, in a famous verse of his, William Blake makes a reference to two women 'Kate' and 'Nan', who it turns out were probably, according to one interpretation William Blake and Religion: A New Critical View By Magnus Ankarsjö, an oblique reference to his wife 'Catherine' nicknamed 'Kate,' and his friend's wife 'Nancy' (married to Blake's sculptor friend John Flaxman) whom he may have coveted or with whom he may even have had an affair.  It's also a reminder, as we've been discussing, that 'every harlot was a virgin once' -- i.e. 'whores are made,' not born.  

 

Verses from ‘The Gates of Paradise’

[Epilogue]. To the Accuser who is The God of this World

 

TRULY, my Satan, thou art but a dunce,

And dost not know the garment from the man;

Every harlot was a virgin once,

Nor canst thou ever change Kate into Nan.

 

Tho’ thou art worship’d by the names divine

Of Jesus and Jehovah, thou art still

The Son of Morn in weary Night’s decline,

The lost traveller’s dream under the hill.

 

 

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I agree with your interpretation of the meaning of "winter is coming". LmL has said he believes the Last Hero was a child taken from the Others, who then defeated them.

I like that theory.

It ties in to the notion of 'taming the wolf to defeat the other (Other?!) wolves' -- so the stolen changeling/Other baby became a Stark, obviously:

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Andals in the Reach

The Three Sage Kings also found lands and lordships for the more powerful of the Andal kings descending on the Reach, in return for pledges of fealty. The Gardeners sought after Andal craftsmen as well and encouraged their lords bannermen to do the same. Blacksmiths and stonemasons in particular were handsomely rewarded. The former taught the First Men to arm and armor themselves in iron in place of bronze; the latter helped them strengthen the defenses of their castles and holdfasts.

And though some of these new-made lords foreswore their vows in later years, most did not. Rather, they joined with their liege lords to put down such rebels and defended the Reach against those Andal kings and warbands who came later. "When a wolf descends upon your flocks, all you gain by killing him is a short respite, for other wolves will come," King Garth IX said famously. "If instead you feed the wolf and tame him and turn his pups into your guard dogs, they will protect the flocks when the pack comes ravening." King Gwayne V said it more succinctly. "They gave us seven gods, we gave them dirt and daughters, and our sons and grandsons shall be as brothers."

Many noble houses of the Reach trace their ancestry back to Andal adventurers given lands and wives by Garth IX, Merle I, and Gwayne V, amongst them the Ormes, Parrens, Gracefords, Cuys, Roxtons, Ufferings, Leygoods, and Varners. As the centuries passed, the sons and daughters of these houses intermarried so freely with those descended from the First Men that it became impossible to tell them apart. Seldom has a conquest been achieved with less bloodshed.

 

 

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Rather than the Long Night being caused by someone's ambition, I have thought for awhile that is was an act of love. I think it was a case of the world needing to be destroyed because it was supported by the child sacrifice demanded by Garth. Dany is acting out this idea in Slaver's bay. Yea, it would be nice if she could just govern and fix the place, but she can't and the next best thing is to just destroy the retched place that even Hizdahr says is in need of serious reform so something new can grow. Westeros itself is quickly becoming a cesspool is need of a Ragnarok event.

Funny that you should mention 'cesspool' -- do you recall @Pain killer Jane's and my idea of the Others emerging via the proverbial 'back door'?! (sorry to be crass, but we are discussing the likes of Craster, among other arseholes...;)).  According to the symbolism, the 'way in' to the weirwood, the 'front door,' is configured as a 'vaginal' entrance; the 'way out' of the weirwood however, the 'back door,' is configured as an 'anal' passage, as it were.  Being 'reborn' is being disgorged from the 'bowels of the earth', or more accurately the 'cesspool' of black water often accompanying the weirwood tree.  Think of all the examples of those 'reborn' from the cesspool of black water, like an inverse baptism:

  • Craster's sons given to the Others are being 'smuggled out the back door' of Craster's Keep, which is often likened to a midden or a huge 'shitpile'
  • Arya emerging from the King's Landing dungeons via the sewers
  • Arya emerging from the muddy tunnel which shields her from the fire (in ASOIAF 'mud' is basically synonymous with sewerage/fertilizer)
  • The mysterious pregnant woman in Bran's vision emerging from the black pool at the foot of the heart tree, symbolically a Night's Queen figure, so the child she's carrying is an 'Other'
  • Osha rising out of the pool, after which Summer sniffs her to make sure she's not dead
  • Tyrion being pulled out of the 'unclean' Sorrows after his near-drowning; he compares himself to a 'revenant' who will 'haunt' the seven kingdoms dead.
On 12/3/2017 at 9:53 PM, Unchained said:

It may be that the betrayal and oath breaking that caused the Long Night was in fact a very just one, such as saving a child meant for the flames or ice or whatever. This would be similar to the Kingslaying Jaime is known for among other examples. 

A good example involving Jaime would be his rescue of Tyrion for love.  Following his escape from King's Landing (LmL's 'fire moon' conflagration scenario), Tyrion is rescued once more, this time from an icy prison in the Sorrows (my sea/see pun applies), being liberated from the 'kiss of death' of the Shrouded Lord (the NK archetype, or the 'darker face of the Garth deity') by receiving the kiss of life from Septa Lemore (a 'mermaid' figure granting the 'kiss of life' in @Crowfood's Daughter's tradition -- note that it is Lemore, a NQ and maternal figure symbolically, who resuscitates him following his near-drowning!)  In Lemore, we have a white-robed virginal septa figure, who seems to have indulged in too much sex than is seemly for a septa, as evidenced by the telltale stretchmarks on her belly (does that make her a kind of 'whore'?)   As some have noted, 'Lemore' is a wordplay on 'L'amore' = 'love,' so once again Tyrion is rescued by/for love!  

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The obvious story to look at would be Snow White. She is spared by the Huntsman and a heart of a pig is given in her place in some versions. The Huntsman is another version of the green man and Monster is rescued by Sam the Huntsman. Ned at the Tower of Joy I would think is playing this Huntsman. He is subservient to Robert who I think may be the hungry child-eating Garth that is betrayed by his Huntsman. Ned is I think the King of Winter here. The King of Winter and the King Beyond the Wall seem to be like the same thing as far as I can tell and they fought the Night's King. So was the Night's King the same person as Garth?  The hungry god. Or did the Night's King serve the hungry God and feed him. All so confusing. 

Another 'green man' candidate who was instrumental in 'stealing the child' would be Howland Reed.  The Night's King would be the abominable greenseer; the insatiable god he serves would be the weirnet harnessed to his own ego...

 

 

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It feels almost confirmed to me to me by now that the Night's Queen was made into a "whore" in some way. Was she wronged, and them turned to making Others, or does she become a 'whore' by making Others. Or both?  

The answer to your question is probably 'both' -- NQ is wronged and induced to create Others by having her reproduction violently taken over by another.  Think of Gilly (NQ archetype) in relation to Craster (NK archetype).  He makes her into his whore by having sex with his own daughter beginning when she is underage no doubt, then forcing her to give up her son for sacrifice to the trees (= the hungry god) -- a whole set of abominations right there.  Out of love, she rescues her son 'Monster' with the aid of the oathbreaking Huntsman Sam (LH archetype), who also does what he does for love (love of Gilly, that is).

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A Feast for Crows - Samwell II

I hate the sea, Sam thought, I hate the sea, I hate the sea, I hate the sea. The next lightning flash was so bright it lit the cabin through the seams in the planking overhead. This is a good sound ship, a good sound ship, a good ship, he told himself. It will not sink. I am not afraid.

During one of the lulls between the gales, as Sam clung white-knuckled to the rail wanting desperately to retch, he heard some of the crew muttering that this was what came of bringing a woman aboard ship, and a wildling woman at that. "Fucked her own father," Sam heard one man say, as the wind was rising once again. "Worse than whoring, that. Worse than anything. We'll all drown unless we get rid of her, and that abomination that she whelped."

Sam dared not confront them. They were older men, hard and sinewy, their arms and shoulders thickened by years at the oars. But he made certain that his knife was sharp, and whenever Gilly left the cabin to make water, he went with her.

Once again -- the pattern we've identified previously of the female victim unfairly labeled a 'whore' being scapegoated for the sins of the male perpetrator.  Interestingly, the crew hold her responsible for the storm at sea, a parallel to the NQ having created the Others out of the sea/see and/or having stolen one of the babies meant for the Others, arousing the ire of the elements.

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A Clash of Kings - Jon III

"My lord," Jon said quietly as the wood closed in around them once more. "Craster has no sheep. Nor any sons."

Mormont made no answer.

"At Winterfell one of the serving women told us stories," Jon went on. "She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children."

"Hearth tales. Does Craster seem less than human to you?"

In half a hundred ways. "He gives his sons to the wood."

Note how 'the wood closed in around them,' almost like a hungry mouth (a bit reminiscent of the wrinkly orifice that stretches to admit Bran at the so-called 'Black Gate,' in actual fact a white weirwood)!  And then the final description 'he gives his sons to the wood', implying that the wood is consuming the boys.  Thus, another of GRRM's trite aphorisms is deconstructed: 'fire consumes; ice preserves...' goes the refrain; yet, clearly it is 'ice' (the 'cold gods', the 'faceless, nameless ones of the wood') which is doing the consuming here.

The legend of the 'rat cook' must be related symbolically, with the 'monstrous white rat' who consumes its own children being a weirwood allusion, as ... @Brian Powers Of Palantíri and @Evolett have suggested.

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A Storm of Swords - Bran IV 

...a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young. He had roamed the Nightfort ever since, devouring his children, but still his hunger was not sated.

@Lollygag has also remarked that a rat needs to constantly chew because their teeth never stop growing, which reminds me of the way the weirwoods are described:

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran III 

A weirwood will live forever if left undisturbed.

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A Dance with Dragons - Prologue

The trees had grown icy teeth, snarling down from the bare brown branches

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A Dance with Dragons - Bran II

The way the shadows shifted made it seem as if the walls were moving too. Bran saw great white snakes slithering in and out of the earth around him, and his heart thumped in fear. He wondered if they had blundered into a nest of milk snakes or giant grave worms, soft and pale and squishy. Grave worms have teeth.

Hodor saw them too. "Hodor," he whimpered, reluctant to go on. But when the girl child stopped to let them catch her, the torchlight steadied, and Bran realized that the snakes were only white roots like the one he'd hit his head on. "It's weirwood roots," he said. "Remember the heart tree in the godswood, Hodor? The white tree with the red leaves? A tree can't hurt you."

"Hodor." Hodor plunged ahead, hurrying after the child and her torch, deeper into the earth. They passed another branching, and another, then came into an echoing cavern as large as the great hall of Winterfell, with stone teeth hanging from its ceiling and more poking up through its floor.

The word 'RATS' is also an anagram for 'STAR' which can be found in the names 'STARk' and 'cRASTer!  

On 12/3/2017 at 9:53 PM, Unchained said:

 Was Lady Dustin made into a 'whore' Brandon? The Night's Queen is said in the world book to maybe have been a lady of the barrowlands, making her possibly one of the top people to look at for NQ behavior. She dislikes the Starks, and is using the Boltons and to get revenge on them. 

'Brandon of the bloody blade'!

You are right -- Lady Dustin is a NQ figure:

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A Dance with Dragons - The Turncloak

The sound was too painful to endure. Theon grabbed hold of a branch and pulled himself back to his feet, knocked the snow off his legs, and limped back toward the lights. There are ghosts in Winterfell, he thought, and I am one of them.

More snowmen had risen in the yard by the time Theon Greyjoy made his way back. To command the snowy sentinels on the walls, the squires had erected a dozen snowy lords. One was plainly meant to be Lord Manderly; it was the fattest snowman that Theon had ever seen. The one-armed lord could only be Harwood Stout, the snow lady Barbrey Dustin. And the one closest to the door with the beard made of icicles had to be old Whoresbane Umber.

So if Lady Barbrey is a NQ figure, turned into a 'whore' by Brandon, then who is the 'child' either literal or symbolic she has liberated from death?

Edited by ravenous reader

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Does anyone happen to know the name of GRRM's romantic rival, the man for whom Lisa Tuttle left GRRM ( @The Fattest Leech?) -- I've researched and I can't find anything; that sensitive information has been very discretely hidden 'all records of his name erased' it would seem -- (that would parallel Lyanna leaving Robert for Rhaegar, and would imply GRRM identifies with Robert Baratheon!)?  I have a crazy notion his name was something like 'Gareth' or, even better, 'Gar-rhae' = 'Gary'!  :D


Ooh, scandalous! :devil: I see where this is headed. I'd think a Gary, or Peter even. Someone who is going to have the sword come shattering down on him to remove his pointy little head.

I'm on it...

 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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11 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 


Ooh, scandalous! :devil: I see where this is headed. I'd think a Gary, or Peter even. Someone who is going to have the sword come shattering down on him to remove his pointy little head.

I'm on it...

 

Thank you -- I knew you'd be the one to ask..!

The seminal love triangle of George, Lisa and 'X' have carefully hidden the identity of said 'X' online -- it is very frustrating for those of us favoring a psychoanalytic approach to the text..! B)

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8 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

So if Lady Barbrey is a NQ figure, turned into a 'whore' by Brandon, then who is the 'child' either literal or symbolic she has liberated from death?

Wait, I thought the NQ exploits her child and the huntsman or whatever you wanna call him liberates him or her. 

Theon is the one it has to be. She uses him to get into the crypts and bond over how they both wanted to be Starks. 

I think it may not have been the one who made the NQ hoary that she wants revenge against. I may have already said this, can't remember. Rather, it was the one who killed her first love, a love that was considered to have dishonored her. There are examples of the other way like you said where the woman is blamed for being raped, but on the other hand there is a conflation of adultry for love and rape, examples include the obvious Rhaegar "raping" Lyanna and Daeron the singer being accused of rape for having what he says was consensual sex with a lord's daughter (have you see bluetiger's find concerning him and a LOTR story that sounds very Last Hero like? It gives reason to suspect his story is important at least). Let's go through the list, Lysa had her son with Petyr taken and was not allowed to be with him to motivate her to turn to Petyr for help killing her husband, Petyr betrays her. Cersei never forgives Robert for killing Rhaegar, she turns to Lancel (not sure how he fits the pattern) to kill Robert.  She trusts a Rhaegar lookalike who betrays her as does Lancel. Ashara was "dishonored" by a Stark. Idk what she actually does, but Arya says about the song about the woman who jumps off a tower because her prince was killed that she should have killed the men who killed her prince. Lady Dustin isn't mad at Brandon for making her hoary, she is mad at Rickard and his maester for taking him away, also at Ned for taking her husband away. She turns to the Starks most powerful servile House.  Would Tysha be angry at Tyrion? If she is the Sailor's wife, she isn't because we know she longs for her husband back. Her fellow prostitute who says her husband is dead is telling us more of an archetypal clue. The NQ's first love is killed and taken from her.  Only he is not really dead dead.  Then she turns to this dead lover, but like the lady says, it is a bad idea. Dany breaks the world for her first love (a lover that is kinda rapey with her, she does say yes, but before... it really shows us this first love/rape conflation well). Can Cat be thought of as using her son to kill the people who killed her first love? She can be thought of as giving them up in a Rumpelstiltskin-like fashion with her prayers one of which is to summon the Renly killing shadow. Stannis does go fight her husband's murderers after that. Did I forget anyone? 

Assuming you buy this, would the NK be the now dead first love she turns to?  Or is he the killer of the first love who claims her? I have a hard time deciding if the NK is a Little or Big Brother. I think Big and Huntsman who steals the child is like the Little Brother she turns to. Love this quote.

 

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Lord Hoster groaned. "Dead." His hand groped for hers. "You'll have others . . . sweet babes, and trueborn." 
Others? Catelyn thought. Has he forgotten that Ned is gone? Is he still talking to Tansy, or is it me now, or Lysa, or Mother?

 

 

Lysa has the Others not with her first love, but with her "legitimate" husband. That's all the evidence I have though. I think the Little Brother (the first love usually but not always) is defeated in round one and made servile, like being forced to join the Watch before betraying his master the Big Brother. That's sounds kinda like the NK was a first love the NQ turns to to birth Others to bring down her husband, the Big Brother. 

 

https://theambercompendium.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/the-advent-calendar-5th-dec-2017/

 

here is a link to BlueTiger's Tolkien Daeron find.  

Edited by Unchained

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7 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

 

A good example involving Jaime would be his rescue of Tyrion for love.  Following his escape from King's Landing (LmL's 'fire moon' conflagration scenario), Tyrion is rescued once more, this time from an icy prison in the Sorrows (my sea/see pun applies), being liberated from the 'kiss of death' of the Shrouded Lord (the NK archetype, or the 'darker face of the Garth deity') by receiving the kiss of life from Septa Lemore (a 'mermaid' figure granting the 'kiss of life' in @Crowfood's Daughter's tradition -- note that it is Lemore, a NQ and maternal figure symbolically, who resuscitates him following his near-drowning!)  In Lemore, we have a white-robed virginal septa figure, who seems to have indulged in too much sex than is seemly for a septa, as evidenced by the telltale stretchmarks on her belly (does that make her a kind of 'whore'?)   As some have noted, 'Lemore' is a wordplay on 'L'amore' = 'love,' so once again Tyrion is rescued by/for love!  

Another 'green man' candidate who was instrumental in 'stealing the child' would be Howland Reed.  The Night's King would be the abominable greenseer; the insatiable god he serves would be the weirnet harnessed to his own ego...

 

Hey RR!  Im back in the forums, thanks for the tag.  You have Lemore nailed, one thing I might add is she is also a venus figure in the fashion of the maiden bathing espied by Florian the fool, and Dany bathing in her introductory chapter.  There is a reason our writer had her bathing naked in addition to showing she has stretch marks.  This gives her the maiden coming from the water symbolism.  Any time you see a naked woman bathing (*cough, Brienne, *cough, Osha, *cough), we are given our Morningstar/evenstar love goddess symbolism which @LmL might see as significant from an astronomy standpoint.

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7 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

 

So if Lady Barbrey is a NQ figure, turned into a 'whore' by Brandon, then who is the 'child' either literal or symbolic she has liberated from death?

Spitballing here. but... her widow's horse that returned without his bones from the Tower of Joy?

She is a fascinating figure. Just for fun my Lady Dustin song:

"Passing Horses" by Current 93

"Gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Emptiness
Nothing rests on the mirror
Nothing to rest
Nowhere to rest
Clouds do not obscure
Passing horses
White snow melting
Snowflakes falling
Turn back into air
The end is painless
Already full we are
Although empty
Passing horses
White horses ripple
Through the blue sky
"Who would have thought
A dewdrop would last so long"
He said
"Your end which is endless"
He said
"As a snowflake melts
Into air"
He said
Trust yourselves
Your cup is full
Overflowing
Floating
Passing horses
Shining hooves
Emptiness is moving
And dancing
Sky-clad
Rainbow-coloured
And crystal-faced
"A net of fireflies"
Freedom itself
And motion itself
And suffering itself
And pain itself
And laughing itself
And shot through
With nothing
No one hearing
"And the foam on the last water
Has dissolved" he said
"I lean against the stove
And emptiness - lo! Eternity"
He said
And where are they now
These passing horses?
In which wood
In which star
In which stream
"Alone into the alone"
She said
Not realising
Oh how alone
She already was
Dancing in between
The worlds
The swallow dips
The eagle hovers"

 

 

Edited by hiemal

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1 hour ago, Crowfood's Daughter said:

Hey RR!  Im back in the forums, thanks for the tag.  You have Lemore nailed, one thing I might add is she is also a venus figure in the fashion of the maiden bathing espied by Florian the fool, and Dany bathing in her introductory chapter.  There is a reason our writer had her bathing naked in addition to showing she has stretch marks.  This gives her the maiden coming from the water symbolism.  Any time you see a naked woman bathing (*cough, Brienne, *cough, Osha, *cough), we are given our Morningstar/evenstar love goddess symbolism which @LmL might see as significant from an astronomy standpoint.

Coming from the water with stretch marks is like Dany coming out of the water pregnant. @LmL talks about an ice moon and a fire moon. More so than anything else his talent, at least relative to me, is avoiding being wrong, he's careful, although I disagree with him that the NQ goes to the NK for help, I think he may be the man she is forced into marrying and later betrays but my manifesto on that is above. Even he admits that he is not sure if there was actually two moons or a fiery one that turned icy with two phases.  I think there is enough evidence there were two moons, but I am less sure there were two women on the ground 8,000 years ago causing the LN.  Maybe there were, but based on my comparing events Cat and Lysa, a classic fire and ice sisterhood, seem to be playing the same role of the same person.  Lysa is angry NQ mad about Petyr being symbolically killed and taken from her, but Cat is the one he fights over when symbolically killed. Maybe the less than pure evenstar women emerging from the pools is like the fire moon Maiden changing icy, the two phases. The archetypal woman seems most likely to me to have had a child, had it and its father taken, become icy with hatred, then gritted her teeth, married her love's killer and had his kids. Then she helps one of the kids betray her husband when she allows one to be taken to be raised and defeat him in a Zeus or Horus manner. 

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9 hours ago, Unchained said:

Coming from the water with stretch marks is like Dany coming out of the water pregnant. @LmL talks about an ice moon and a fire moon. More so than anything else his talent, at least relative to me, is avoiding being wrong, he's careful, although I disagree with him that the NQ goes to the NK for help, I think he may be the man she is forced into marrying and later betrays but my manifesto on that is above. Even he admits that he is not sure if there was actually two moons or a fiery one that turned icy with two phases.  I think there is enough evidence there were two moons, but I am less sure there were two women on the ground 8,000 years ago causing the LN.  Maybe there were, but based on my comparing events Cat and Lysa, a classic fire and ice sisterhood, seem to be playing the same role of the same person.  Lysa is angry NQ mad about Petyr being symbolically killed and taken from her, but Cat is the one he fights over when symbolically killed. Maybe the less than pure evenstar women emerging from the pools is like the fire moon Maiden changing icy, the two phases. The archetypal woman seems most likely to me to have had a child, had it and its father taken, become icy with hatred, then gritted her teeth, married her love's killer and had his kids. Then she helps one of the kids betray her husband when she allows one to be taken to be raised and defeat him in a Zeus or Horus manner. 

I like this idea especially when we see in Bran's dream a woman doing exactly this, a naked woman emerging from the pool heavy with child praying for a son to exact vengeance.

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13 hours ago, Crowfood's Daughter said:

I like this idea especially when we see in Bran's dream a woman doing exactly this, a naked woman emerging from the pool heavy with child praying for a son to exact vengeance.

In that case, sense we are seeing things in reverse order, I think the man who is bled out to the tree is probably the man playing the role the man who is killed that the woman emerging from the pool wants to avenge. Not that those people actually knew each other, but in a sense that vision shows us some of the important events in reverse order. 

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Does anyone happen to know the name of GRRM's romantic rival, the man for whom Lisa Tuttle left GRRM ( @The Fattest Leech?) -- I've researched and I can't find anything; that sensitive information has been very discretely hidden 'all records of his name erased' it would seem -- (that would parallel Lyanna leaving Robert for Rhaegar, and would imply GRRM identifies with Robert Baratheon!)?  I have a crazy notion his name was something like 'Gareth' or, even better, 'Gar-rhae' = 'Gary'!  :D

The name "Melisandre" can be split up into "me, lisa, n, dre" or "me, lisa, andre" or "me, lisa, and dre."  Probably nothing, but perhaps his name is Andre or Dre or Andrew or Andy...  @ravenous reader

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Sufjan Stevens just released this song a few weeks ago.  It's called Wallowa Lake Monster but touches on the Charybdis myth.  The Charybdis myth was rationalized as a whirlpool in the straits between the Ionian Sea and the Tyrrhenaan Sea.

Wallowa Lake Monster
 
As if you know the story of Wallowa Lake
Leviathan first hid in the deep where her children sleep
She kept them hidden from the plague
But have you heard the story of my mother’s fate?
She left us in Detroit in the rain with a pillowcase
Fortune for the paperweight
 
We followed her to Joseph, near the Indian raid
She wept among the weeds, hide and seek, for the fallen chief
Spathiphyllum on his grave
And like the cedar waxwing, she was drunk all day
We put her in the sheet, little wreath, candles on the crate
As the monster showed its face
 
As she waits for her children in the shade
Demogorgon or demigod the ghost parade
No oblation will bring her back to our place
 
She stayed within the deep end of Wallowa Lake
The undertow refrained with the flame of a feathered snake
Charybdis in its shallow grave
She gave us one last feature, the fullness of her face
In the shade of "Hin-mah-too-yah" (Red Napoleon)
As the demon took her place
 
As we wait for the waters to reside
Her remarkable stoicism and her pride
When the dragon submerged we knew she had died
 
 
 

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On ‎13‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:17 PM, ravenous reader said:
Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran III

"What are you doing?" he shrieked.

The crow opened its beak and cawed at him, a shrill scream of fear, and the grey mists shuddered and swirled around him and ripped away like a veil, and he saw that the crow was really a woman, a serving woman with long black hair, and he knew her from somewhere, from Winterfell, yes, that was it, he remembered her now, and then he realized that he was in Winterfell, in a bed high in some chilly tower room, and the black-haired woman dropped a basin of water to shatter on the floor and ran down the steps, shouting, "He's awake, he's awake, he's awake."

Bran and the three-eyed crow.

Dissecting the symbolism on closer inspection of this passage, we can appreciate that the greenseer awaking (i.e. representing the opening of the 'third-eye') is a world-shattering event, as evidenced by the thrice-repeated incantatory 'He's awake, he's awake, he's awake' and the shattering bowl like the hatching of an egg, e.g. reminiscent of the cracking of Drogon's egg which 'broke the world'.  Moreover, it's suggested that a greenseer awaking is responsible for the 'hammer of the waters' (the basin of water dropping on the floor and shattering).

Hi RR  :D

I love your take on the symbolism, I particularly like that passage of text from Bran III AGOT, and had an alternative take on the potential symbolism I'd like to share with you.  The serving woman accompanying Bran reminds me of the acolytes from the Cult of the Starry Wisdom singing to the stars atop their scrying tower in Braavos. 

Quote

‘As she made her way past the temples, she could hear the acolytes of the Cult of Starry Wisdom atop their scrying tower, singing to the evening stars.’  [The Blind Girl – ADWD]

My reasoning for this is that the black haired women positioned 'atop a tower' with a 'bowl of water' sounds to me like she was water scrying, perhaps trying to glimpse Bran’s future, connect with him psychically or maybe heal him in some way.  As for the 'singing' to the stark stars, I think there may be a word play/anagram of the word ‘serving’ rearranged as ‘versing’.  This translates as a singing/versing/serving woman atop a tower with a bowl of water, which I think may be a good match for the scrying quote from the Arya chapter.  

I’ve yet to flesh out this idea thoroughly but thought it worth a post considering you had analysed that particular piece of text.  And speculatively it may also add some mysticism to @GloubieBoulga's take on this passage of text that the Three-eyed crow was a woman, a versing woman who sings the song perhaps?  Anyway, as I say, more research needed and would love to hear any further ideas on the subject.  :)

On ‎02‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 2:10 PM, ravenous reader said:

Finally, the reference to 'unmanning' and 'trembling at shadows' is an echo of the AGOT Prologue, perhaps hinting that the origin of the Others has something to do with a blood betrayal involving the sacrifice of a child and/or woman.  Alternatively, perhaps it's even more twisted than that ('cause it's GRRM you know...) and the Others represent the 'debt collectors', who are enforcing the honoring of an ancient debt, or promise in the Rumpelstilskin tradition -- a pricely prince who instead of being delivered to them as promised at the appointed time, as agreed in the pact, was stolen away by someone (parallel to Sam and Gilly stealing 'Monster' from his appointed fate with the Others).

 

On ‎02‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 2:10 PM, ravenous reader said:

Here's another passage about 'unborn children' exchanged in payment for a 'violation'

Anyone who hasn't caught up with the conversation between ravenous and @Unchained should check it out up thread, some great theorizing/chat going on, the quotes I've highlighted doesn't do it justice.  Anyway, some more word play in the hope of adding some support to this line of thought.......  :)   

COINS -- SCION

The coins – scion pun is another potential word play/anagram which seems to fit rather well with the conversation you’ve been having up thread regarding children being exchanged as some sort of payment.  It seems you have already uncovered a lot of impressive examples where this word play could work, more than my brief research has uncovered, so I thought you may like this idea. 

Here’s a couple of brief examples that may support this notion……  

Quote

 

 JON VI -- ACOK

"Bael had brought her back?"

"No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says . . . though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me."

"It never happened," Jon said.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

I love your idea that the ‘prince that was promised’ is more accurately a 'price that was promised'.  Although this next piece of text isn’t a literal sacrifice of a child it is a good example of a ‘prince’ [scion] being used as payment to settle a debt.       

Quote

 

THE QUEENMAKER -- AFFC

Quentyn had been very young when he was sent to Yronwood; too young, according to their mother. Norvoshi did not foster out their children, and Lady Mellario had never forgiven Prince Doran for taking her son away from her. "I like it no more than you do," Arianne had overheard her father say, "but there is a blood debt, and Quentyn is the only coin Lord Ormond will accept."

"Coin?" her mother had screamed. "He is your son. What sort of father uses his own flesh and blood to pay his debts?"

 

I hope these ideas may 'serve' as inspiration and I will continue to look into this line of thought myself in the hope of fleshing it out and adding to the already awesome chat.  Cheers  :cheers:    

Edited by Wizz-The-Smith

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On 12/10/2017 at 4:44 PM, Rusted Revolver said:

The name "Melisandre" can be split up into "me, lisa, n, dre" or "me, lisa, andre" or "me, lisa, and dre."  Probably nothing, but perhaps his name is Andre or Dre or Andrew or Andy...  @ravenous reader

I like this. Sorry @ravenous reader, I see you tagged me a few days ago, but I never saw it :wacko:

An author writes what they know. That Lisa name seems familiar. Like maybe someone who puts on a show of affection, only to be looking out for one's own interest/harm first (as George says Mel does), and then makes people act weird and irrational??? Ya don't say :D

Gird your loins, I am about to talk old GRRM stories and I know a lot of people on the forum cringe when they are brought up.

From what I know, Melisandre is a re-hash of Morgan (Full of Magic, the Liar) from Bitterblooms. Her full name in that story is Morgan Le Fay. From my research, Morgan Le Fay has a few different arc and personalities depending on who is telling the story. George seems to use a loosely condensed version of her that fits his own story best. Here is a larger pic of the red-headed flame lady Morgan Le Fay from Arthurian legend. (Hmmm, that sounds familiar ;)) Morgan is a trickster that uses a "screen" to manipulate what her captive sees, and therefore how this captive behaves, making her perform out of the norm acts. (Hmmm, sounds familiar ;)). This captive is basically Arya in this story, but you can see how GRRM reworked it to be Jon in ASOAIF, especially since Jon and Arya are so much alike, and the grey girl/dying horse thing, and so on.

Edited by The Fattest Leech
clarified a word

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On 14/12/2017 at 4:25 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

I like this. Sorry @ravenous reader, I see you tagged me a few days ago, but I never saw it :wacko:

An author writes what they know. That Lisa name seems familiar. Like maybe someone who puts on a show of affection, only to be looking out for one's own interest/harm first (as George says Mel does), and then makes people act weird and irrational??? Ya don't say :D

Gird your loins, I am about to talk old GRRM stories and I know a lot of people on the forum cringe when they are brought up.

From what I know, Melisandre is a re-hash of Morgan (Full of Magic, the Liar) from Bitterblooms. Her full name in that story is Morgan Le Fay. From my research, Morgan Le Fay has a few different arc and personalities depending on who is telling the story. George seems to use a loosely condensed version of her that fits his own story best. Here is a larger pic of the red-headed flame lady Morgan Le Fay from Arthurian legend. (Hmmm, that sounds familiar ;)) Morgan is a trickster that uses a "screen" to manipulate what her captive sees, and therefore how this captive behaves, making her perform out of the norm acts. (Hmmm, sounds familiar ;)). This captive is basically Arya in this story, but you can see how GRRM reworked it to be Jon in ASOAIF, especially since Jon and Arya are so much alike, and the grey girl/dying horse thing, and so on.

I like it! I think Morgan is perfect for a parallelism with Melisandre

Just to add something different: in some languages Melissa is Melisa. Melissa in "Orlando furioso" was a good sorceress and prophetess who lived in Merlin's cave. She helps two lovers (Ruggiero and Bramante) to be together and tells them the future of their progeny (a very important house The Estensi). She saves Ruggiero from a Alcina, a fay who uses black magic, with a ring that broke spells and makes him see the real Alcina, an old crone. Alcina has 2 sisters, one of them is Morgan. 

It's a really complex story, I don't know it very well.

Edited by Cridefea

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On 12/13/2017 at 10:25 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

An author writes what they know. That Lisa name seems familiar. Like maybe someone who puts on a show of affection, only to be looking out for one's own interest/harm first (as George says Mel does), and then makes people act weird and irrational??? Ya don't say :D

Hi Leech, just a cheeky ravenous note on ye ol' dark wings dropping your way...  Did you know, the official GRRM-pronunciation of the all-important love object whose face launched a thousand 'ships and so forth is actually 'LIE - anna,' not 'LEE - anna' as is commonly assumed?!  Between 'LIE - anna' and 'LIES - ah', and the other permutations we've encountered, there is a suggestion of a lot of broken promises and feigned affections all round...:P

Spoiler

P.S.  A certain spider is very secretive about his birth name.  It's actually turned into a bit of a cult question online, LOL.  He might have any of 'vary(ou)s' names...He recently refuted speculations that his name is 'Paul,' so at least we've ruled out one name...(he also has long fingers and plays a string instrument).

 

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12 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Hi Leech, just a cheeky ravenous note on ye ol' dark wings dropping your way...  Did you know, the official GRRM-pronunciation of the all-important love object whose face launched a thousand 'ships and so forth is actually 'LIE - anna,' not 'LEE - anna' as is commonly assumed?!  Between 'LIE - anna' and 'LIES - ah', and the other permutations we've encountered, there is a suggestion of a lot of broken promises and feigned affections all round...:P

  Hide contents

P.S.  A certain spider is very secretive about his birth name.  It's actually turned into a bit of a cult question online, LOL.  He might have any of 'vary(ou)s' names...He recently refuted speculations that his name is 'Paul,' so at least we've ruled out one name...(he also has long fingers and plays a string instrument).

 

Good stuff. I’ll scour for that later. 

I did know it was Lie-Anna. 

Just as Jeyne Poole is actually pronounced like gene pool. The love has been spread around, not incestuatized. 

Edited by The Fattest Leech
Cat interrupted me

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"The force that through the green fuse drives the flower Drives my green age; that blasts the roots of trees Is my destroyer.

The force that drives the water through the rocks Drives my red blood; that dries the mouthing streams Turns mine to wax..."

 

The following poem from which these arresting seminal quotes are drawn is dedicated to the gentle fire-maege @Archmaester_Aemma :) who has highlighted the 'green fire'-'cherry red' color association present in Lightbringer's forging. 

Note, this 'green-red force' is at once a destructive as well as generative principle, driving death together with life.  The force that 'drives' also 'dries' out life, or 'sucks it dry' (with sexual connotations...'the lips of time leech to the fountainhead...at the mountain spring the same mouth sucks...love drips and gathers...calms her sores'), a bittersweet paradox with which Dylan Thomas grapples in the poem.

Thomas also seems to be referencing Wiliam Blake's 'sick rose' and the insidious 'worm' concept, to which @hiemal memorably introduced us in the POEMS V1 thread!

 

First, consider these quotes in terms of Lightbringer forging symbolism, focusing on the color signature:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Davos I

Stannis Baratheon strode forward like a soldier marching into battle. His squires stepped up to attend him. Davos watched as his son Devan pulled a long padded glove over the king's right hand. The boy wore a cream-colored doublet with a fiery heart sewn on the breast. Bryen Farring was similarly garbed as he tied a stiff leather cape around His Grace's neck. Behind, Davos heard a faint clank and clatter of bells. "Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black," Patchface sang somewhere. "I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

The king plunged into the fire with his teeth clenched, holding the leather cloak before him to keep off the flames. He went straight to the Mother, grasped the sword with his gloved hand, and wrenched it free of the burning wood with a single hard jerk. Then he was retreating, the sword held high, jade-green flames swirling around cherry-red steel. Guards rushed to beat out the cinders that clung to the king's clothing.

"A sword of fire!" shouted Queen Selyse. Ser Axell Florent and the other queen's men took up the cry. "A sword of fire! It burns! It burns! A sword of fire!"

 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

"The pyromancers roasted Lord Rickard slowly, banking and fanning that fire carefully to get a nice even heat. His cloak caught first, and then his surcoat, and soon he wore nothing but metal and ashes. Next he would start to cook, Aerys promised . . . unless his son could free him. Brandon tried, but the more he struggled, the tighter the cord constricted around his throat. In the end he strangled himself.

"As for Lord Rickard, the steel of his breastplate turned cherry-red before the end, and his gold melted off his spurs and dripped down into the fire. I stood at the foot of the Iron Throne in my white armor and white cloak, filling my head with thoughts of Cersei. After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me, 'You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him.' That was the White Bull, loyal to the end and a better man than me, all agree."

"Aerys . . ." Catelyn could taste bile at the back of her throat. The story was so hideous she suspected it had to be true. 

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon III

Beneath the weeping Wall, Lady Melisandre raised her pale white hands. "We all must choose," she proclaimed. "Man or woman, young or old, lord or peasant, our choices are the same." Her voice made Jon Snow think of anise and nutmeg and cloves. She stood at the king's side on a wooden scaffold raised above the pit. "We choose light or we choose darkness. We choose good or we choose evil. We choose the true god or the false."

We choose 'life or death'...?  Dylan Thomas's more nuanced view, one shared by GRRM, demonstrates the fallacy in this dichotomy, just as 'red' and 'green,' rather than standing in opposition to each other, can each symbolise death as well as life, depending on the context.

Quote

Mance Rayder's thick grey-brown hair blew about his face as he walked. He pushed it from his eyes with bound hands, smiling. But when he saw the cage, his courage failed him. The queen's men had made it from the trees of the haunted forest, from saplings and supple branches, pine boughs sticky with sap, and the bone-white fingers of the weirwoods. They'd bent them and twisted them around and through each other to weave a wooden lattice, then hung it high above a deep pit filled with logs, leaves, and kindling.

The wildling king recoiled from the sight. "No," he cried, "mercy. This is not right, I'm not the king, they—"

Ser Godry gave a pull on the rope. The King-Beyond-the-Wall had no choice but to stumble after him, the rope choking off his words. When he lost his feet, Godry dragged him the rest of the way. Mance was bloody when the queen's men half-shoved, half-carried him to the cage. A dozen men-at-arms heaved together to hoist him into the air.

...<snip>...

"FREE FOLK! " cried Melisandre. "Behold the fate of those who choose the darkness!"

The Horn of Joramun burst into flame.

It went up with a whoosh as swirling tongues of green and yellow fire leapt up crackling all along its length. Jon's garron shied nervously, and up and down the ranks others fought to still their mounts as well. A moan came from the stockade as the free folk saw their hope afire. A few began to shout and curse, but most lapsed into silence. For half a heartbeat the runes graven on the gold bands seemed to shimmer in the air. The queen's men gave a heave and sent the horn tumbling down into the fire pit.

Inside his cage, Mance Rayder clawed at the noose about his neck with bound hands and screamed incoherently of treachery and witchery, denying his kingship, denying his people, denying his name, denying all that he had ever been. He shrieked for mercy and cursed the red woman and began to laugh hysterically.

Jon watched unblinking. He dare not appear squeamish before his brothers. He had ordered out two hundred men, more than half the garrison of Castle Black. Mounted in solemn sable ranks with tall spears in hand, they had drawn up their hoods to shadow their faces ... and hide the fact that so many were greybeards and green boys. The free folk feared the Watch. Jon wanted them to take that fear with them to their new homes south of the Wall.

The horn crashed amongst the logs and leaves and kindling. Within three heartbeats the whole pit was aflame. Clutching the bars of his cage with bound hands, Mance sobbed and begged. When the fire reached him he did a little dance. His screams became one long, wordless shriek of fear and pain. Within his cage, he fluttered like a burning leaf, a moth caught in a candle flame.

Jon found himself remembering a song.

Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman' s taken my life,

But what does it matter, for all men must die, and I' ve tasted the Dornishman' s wife!

Val stood on the platform as still as if she had been carved of salt. She will not weep nor look away. Jon wondered what Ygritte would have done in her place. The women are the strong ones. He found himself thinking about Sam and Maester Aemon, about Gilly and the babe. She will curse me with her dying breath, but I saw no other way. Eastwatch reported savage storms upon the narrow sea. I meant to keep them safe. Did I feed them to the crabs instead? Last night he had dreamed of Sam drowning, of Ygritte dying with his arrow in her (it had not been his arrow, but in his dreams it always was), of Gilly weeping tears of blood.

Jon Snow had seen enough. "Now," he said.

Ulmer of the Kingswood jammed his spear into the ground, unslung his bow, and slipped a black arrow from his quiver. Sweet Donnel Hill threw back his hood to do the same. Garth Greyfeather and Bearded Ben nocked shafts, bent their bows, loosed.

One arrow took Mance Rayder in the chest, one in the gut, one in the throat. The fourth struck one of the cage's wooden bars, and quivered for an instant before catching fire. A woman's sobs echoed off the Wall as the wildling king slid bonelessly to the floor of his cage, wreathed in fire. "And now his Watch is done," Jon murmured softly. Mance Rayder had been a man of the Night's Watch once, before he changed his black cloak for one slashed with bright red silk.

Up on the platform, Stannis was scowling. Jon refused to meet his eyes. The bottom had fallen out of the wooden cage, and its bars were crumbling. Every time the fire licked upward, more branches tumbled free, cherry red and black.

 

 

The force that through the green fuse drives the flower

Dylan Thomas, 1914 - 1953

The force that through the green fuse drives the flower
Drives my green age; that blasts the roots of trees
Is my destroyer.
And I am dumb to tell the crooked rose
My youth is bent by the same wintry fever.

The force that drives the water through the rocks
Drives my red blood; that dries the mouthing streams
Turns mine to wax.
And I am dumb to mouth unto my veins
How at the mountain spring the same mouth sucks.

The hand that whirls the water in the pool
Stirs the quicksand; that ropes the blowing wind
Hauls my shroud sail.
And I am dumb to tell the hanging man
How of my clay is made the hangman’s lime.

The lips of time leech to the fountain head;
Love drips and gathers, but the fallen blood
Shall calm her sores.
And I am dumb to tell a weather’s wind
How time has ticked a heaven round the stars.

And I am dumb to tell the lover’s tomb
How at my sheet goes the same crooked worm.
 
Edited by ravenous reader

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For @Rusted Revolver a man who 'knows no fear' of pun nor oxymoron, venturing into territory where even angels fear to tread... (and for @LmL who is fond of transitively distilling my supposed 'word salad' into gems...) B)

 

It's well known -- and GRRM admits himself -- that he is a fan of the Grateful Dead:

“I have Grateful Dead lyrics rattling around in my head all the time,” he said, when questioned about the references. “Ripple is one of my favorite songs of all time ... [quotes song] ‘There is a road, no simple highway.’”

 

 

DARK STAR
 

Dark star crashes
pouring its light
into ashes

Reason tatters
the forces tear loose
from the axis

Searchlight casting
for faults in the
clouds of delusion

shall we go, 
you and I
While we can?
Through
the transitive nightfall 
of diamonds

Mirror shatters
in formless reflections
of matter

Glass hand dissolving
to ice petal flowers
revolving

Lady in velvet
recedes
in the nights of goodbye

Shall we go,
you and I
While we can?
Through
the transitive nightfall
of diamonds

spinning a set the stars through which the tattered tales of axis roll about the waxen wind of never set to motion in the unbecoming round about the reason hardly matters nor the wise through which the stars were set in spin

 

-- Words by Robert Hunter; music by Garcia, Kreutzmann, Lesh, McKernan, and Weir

(lyrics start around 6:00)

 

Edited by ravenous reader

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